Orchid and Morningrise are the worst Opeth albums.
- Thread starter changso
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Funeral Portrait
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- Jun 27, 2003
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hej
\m/
Protected Witness
Magickal Theatre 33
Production lacks on the first two albums (see tempo on orchid and drum sound on both especially). My Arms Your Hearse's production is somewhere between fucking awesome and okay.
All the other albums have smoking Opeth production.
The songwriting of the first two albums is definetly different. Whether you think it's "better" or "worse" is of course the ol' matter of taste.
While I like the first two albums very much, I still prefer the others overall. I am a very balanced Opeth listener though.
Orchid and Morningrise are definetly different from all the others, and even each other really. They are kind of their own entities with their own distinctions that everyone holds other albums (even by other bands) up to.
All the other albums have smoking Opeth production.
The songwriting of the first two albums is definetly different. Whether you think it's "better" or "worse" is of course the ol' matter of taste.
While I like the first two albums very much, I still prefer the others overall. I am a very balanced Opeth listener though.
Orchid and Morningrise are definetly different from all the others, and even each other really. They are kind of their own entities with their own distinctions that everyone holds other albums (even by other bands) up to.
SculptedCold
-scented manbeef-
I feel sorry for people who are so lost in subjectivism that they're too blinded to be able to critique anything. =)Commence Destruction said:
Celestial-Voyage
slave to thepower ofdeath
Blackout
Still At Arms Length
Well, and they are not the worst according to YOU.
Liking something or not do not make that fact a universal truth, believe it or not.
Changso stated his opinion, you have yours, I have mine, and none of them is universal or "the truth". That, however do not make any of us a dumbfuck.
Personnal attacks are the weakest way to prove a point, IMO.
Liking something or not do not make that fact a universal truth, believe it or not.
Changso stated his opinion, you have yours, I have mine, and none of them is universal or "the truth". That, however do not make any of us a dumbfuck.
Personnal attacks are the weakest way to prove a point, IMO.
Judas Pissed
MEATL
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
It's because Orchid and Morningrise define a style of writing music that Opeth have long abandoned and in essence, have really abandoned what they started out as being.
I'm only going to speak on behalf of Orchid here, because I'm not a very big morningrise fan.. I just think its another Orchid without the reverb and way more droning and boring guitar parts.
The reason I like Orchid so much is because of this 'riff patching' you speak off. There is a feel of randomness yet it all fits... I don't really know what's to say to make it random... maybe the fact that they dont always have a 3-chord run or whatnot to lead into the next song section? Or maybe because they don't have a solid droning rhythm and more standard song structures as the later albums to link it all up? What it comes down to for me is... that the later albums, being essentially all Rhythm/Lead aren't as unique as Orchid, and of course they are going to flow more coherently as the song structures are so predictable for the most part... I think Mikael is forced to write 'off the wall' riffs, as he puts it to make the music sound 'unpredictable', which I might add is the main goal of the band.
Orchid embodies 'unpredictable' and the essence of what the band started out as being... the ideas are all of course very simple, everything included, solos and all... yet its very raw and I can almost feel the years of work and emotion in that album... there isn't fancy production and a shitload of overdubs, yet it still holds up just as well or even better to the other material to some fans... just chance you say?
I can see why Opeth evolved the way they did, as writing material like Orchid and Morningrise would undoubtedly become redundant after a while, and obvoiusly they needed to try something new... yet it seems with every new release their songs become more standard in structure, so you constantly have fans praising them for making their songs 'flow' better. Well then I ask, how well will the songs flow when Opeth decide to only start using 3 chords in them?
The early albums aren't for everyone, understood, yet I think 'outgrowing' them in no way entitles anybody to feel like they have moved onto 'superior' things... they are merely different styles. If you preffer more standard style music... and I've noticed you like alot of Doom metal Changso... which from what I've heard like to keep the one idea going for about 10 minutes, so it makes sense that you would like the more straightforward material.
I'm only going to speak on behalf of Orchid here, because I'm not a very big morningrise fan.. I just think its another Orchid without the reverb and way more droning and boring guitar parts.
The reason I like Orchid so much is because of this 'riff patching' you speak off. There is a feel of randomness yet it all fits... I don't really know what's to say to make it random... maybe the fact that they dont always have a 3-chord run or whatnot to lead into the next song section? Or maybe because they don't have a solid droning rhythm and more standard song structures as the later albums to link it all up? What it comes down to for me is... that the later albums, being essentially all Rhythm/Lead aren't as unique as Orchid, and of course they are going to flow more coherently as the song structures are so predictable for the most part... I think Mikael is forced to write 'off the wall' riffs, as he puts it to make the music sound 'unpredictable', which I might add is the main goal of the band.
Orchid embodies 'unpredictable' and the essence of what the band started out as being... the ideas are all of course very simple, everything included, solos and all... yet its very raw and I can almost feel the years of work and emotion in that album... there isn't fancy production and a shitload of overdubs, yet it still holds up just as well or even better to the other material to some fans... just chance you say?
I can see why Opeth evolved the way they did, as writing material like Orchid and Morningrise would undoubtedly become redundant after a while, and obvoiusly they needed to try something new... yet it seems with every new release their songs become more standard in structure, so you constantly have fans praising them for making their songs 'flow' better. Well then I ask, how well will the songs flow when Opeth decide to only start using 3 chords in them?
The early albums aren't for everyone, understood, yet I think 'outgrowing' them in no way entitles anybody to feel like they have moved onto 'superior' things... they are merely different styles. If you preffer more standard style music... and I've noticed you like alot of Doom metal Changso... which from what I've heard like to keep the one idea going for about 10 minutes, so it makes sense that you would like the more straightforward material.
x_OPETH_x
Member
hej
\m/
L0bster
OneTwo!
yeah I think the later albums are superior actually. But Orhicd and Morsningrise are still amazing albums.
Yonder
Member
Well, I think if you like Orchid & Morningrise or not depends also on the question when you got to know them. If you discover Opeth with - say - Blackwater Park (that's my situation), it's quite difficult to give Orchid the same credits like one who started his Opeth fan career in 1995. Of course BWP is more advanced, more mature - that's how a good band develops.
I e.g. am a dedicated fan of Judas Priest. I am and I think I ever will be. Why? Because I was there when it started. But can I say to a 19 year old "Hey, check out Stained Class, it rocks"? No, I can't. Truth be told, heavy metal of the 80s sounds sometimes very dusty & dry - but this cannot prevent me from loving it.
I e.g. am a dedicated fan of Judas Priest. I am and I think I ever will be. Why? Because I was there when it started. But can I say to a 19 year old "Hey, check out Stained Class, it rocks"? No, I can't. Truth be told, heavy metal of the 80s sounds sometimes very dusty & dry - but this cannot prevent me from loving it.
crimsonfloyd
Active Member
Personaly I love the structures of the songs, the way they're always moving from one place to another and never stay stagnent, so few bands do that. I love the acoustic passages, and the overall atmosphere. I think the clean vox are a little weak on points on Orchid, but overall I think Morningrise is the best written album, I love the lyrics, the vocals, everything basically. Orchid is very good but it does a have a few weaker moments. Oh another thing I love about that album is the excellent bass playing!
MasterOLightning
Optimator
MR is so brilliant. I feel like the entire album flows very well, even between songs. It's just amazing. Take for example the ending strain of TNATSW and the intro to Nectar. Things pick up right away. It's as good as some of the in-song transitions. BRI has a few that are kind of lame, like the rushing water for a few seconds, but that just adds to the moods. It's not even about listening to the songs, it's about listening to the album.
Scourge of Malice
Member
Blackout
Still At Arms Length
Hmmm, I see you people's point though, and understand why you like it as much as you do (Except for those that said "you're stupid" or something similar to explain their view)
I guess it's all a matter of what you are looking for in Opeth's music... Fortunately, the band's albums are diversified enough that everyone here can find what he/she is looking for - which is why everybody has a different favorite album, it seems.
Cheers !
I guess it's all a matter of what you are looking for in Opeth's music... Fortunately, the band's albums are diversified enough that everyone here can find what he/she is looking for - which is why everybody has a different favorite album, it seems.
Cheers !
Scourge of Malice
Member
I read what someone else said about the forest atmosphere... when I first listened to the Twlight is my Robe I thought about that exact same thing.. a forest.. I put on damnation the other night for some friends and one of them said something about a forest too when TRTD was playing.. and one said simply "THIS IS GOOD MUSIC" which I liked.. anyways...
Korlich
So Judah fucked it up
I prefer Orchid but Morningrise is a good album too. The beauty of orchid and to some extent morningrise(especially BRI) is the unpreditable riffs, that keeps on surprising you. Just when you thought you knew the song you discover something new in it. Also as others have mentioned it is the mood and the atmosphere of the albums that makes them remarkable, not the production as it is on Still life or BWP.
Black Dragon
Longest Here
my only complaint is mike's vox on morningrise.he sounds like he is choking in a rasp intead of sounding demonic. Its not near as bad as that Wars of Winter dude tho.
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