Presidents and what you think about them

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

It's a damn shame that everyone forgets about the Indians. Sure, blacks were enslaved. Put that fact into context, and it's not a big fucking deal. The blacks were not killed off through several genocides (as recent as the late 20th century, as a matter of fact), kicked out of their homelands in several Diasporas, double-crossed, back-stabbed, or forced into what are basically "free-range" concentration camps (reservations). It disgusts me that no one cares about this, yet blacks are still crying about being "oppressed" when our current president is black.
Unfortunately, big banks will continue to prosper, simply because everyone has a price, and the big banks can afford to pay it.

 

[Dak]

It's easy to afford to pay the price when you print the money. I agree with you completely on this is issue. Native Americans have been treated much, much worse than the black population, and the only reason I think there is nary a peep on the issue is that the Natives are afraid if they complain they will get backstabbed again and lose the shitty land and little dole they do get.

 

[razoredge]

Your lack of basic spelling and grammar knowledge is only surpassed by your lack of history education.

Douchbag ! I've been out of school for 34 years and never did care for proper english, get over yourself.

I said I didnt care about WWI after the fact, WWII was the decisive factor and nothing prior matters. This began about FDR and WWII... in case you forget.

I think you need to learn more about this history. I have seen many documentaries as well read up on some stuff regarding the RAF and North African front as well as Italy, it was the Brits that were out numbered and out gunned, they still had Rommel quite busy... running. The British Eight Army did quite well considering the machine they were up against.

The RAF and "poor German civilian casualities" again read about the Blitz and how many Brits were killed. In war people die, thats the way it is, wouldnt hurt to loose a few million today.

This is the deal
Germany, Japan and Italy got their asses handed to them... all is good
The Southern States got their asses handed to them... all is good

 

[Dak]

I said I didnt care about WWI after the fact, WWII was the decisive factor and nothing prior matters.

Like I said, short-sighted ignorance.

I think you need to learn more about this history. I have seen many documentaries as well read up on some stuff regarding the RAF and North African front as well as Italy, it was the Brits that were out numbered and out gunned, they still had Rommel quite busy... running. The British Eight Army did quite well considering the machine they were up against.

Even a quick Wiki check can disprove this ignorance:

Rommel won many battles in Africa in 1941 and 1942 against British forces that always outnumbered him and generally had better supply lines, through aggressive action.

The RAF and "poor German civilian casualities" again read about the Blitz and how many Brits were killed. In war people die, thats the way it is, wouldnt hurt to loose a few million today.

This is the deal
Germany, Japan and Italy got their asses handed to them... all is good
The Southern States got their asses handed to them... all is good

Sounds like something Hitler would say, or Stalin, or Mao, etc. You prove my points for me. Not to mention closing out by contradicting yourself saying "all is good" yet you go on incoherant tangents in many threads about how everything is not "all good". And stop bringing up your age as proof of your correctness. 50 years of ignorance doesn't prove anything.

 

[razoredge]

It's easy to afford to pay the price when you print the money. I agree with you completely on this is issue. Native Americans have been treated much, much worse than the black population, and the only reason I think there is nary a peep on the issue is that the Natives are afraid if they complain they will get backstabbed again and lose the shitty land and little dole they do get.

Another stupid statement, while the Natives got really shafted on a dayly basis, they understood war, conquest, slavery and defeat because it was their way of life prior to whiteman landing on their shores, they accepted it. They dont lay around crying like babies.... "your great great great great grandfather made my great great great great grandfather a slave".... Boohoo... yo yo, wheres my welfare check and food stamps.

Got nothing to do with being afraid of getting stabbed in the back again, in fact they are quite good at getting their palms greased and making the best of things.

 

[Dak]

Got nothing to do with being afraid of getting stabbed in the back again, in fact they are quite good at getting their palms greased and making the best of things.

I never advocated welfare as repayment. You also have obviously never been on a reservation. Aside from the possible presence of a casino to make a small handful wealthy, the rest live in very sad conditions. Reservations are almost all on really shitty land you can't do anything with but build a casino.

 

[razoredge]

With France neutralised, Germany began an air superiority campaign over Britain (the Battle of Britain) to prepare for an invasion.[63] The campaign failed, and the invasion plans were cancelled by September. Using newly captured French ports, the German Navy enjoyed success against an over-extended Royal Navy, using U-boats against British shipping in the Atlantic

In the Atlantic, the British scored a much-needed public morale boost by sinking the German flagship Bismarck.[88] Perhaps most importantly, during the Battle of Britain the Royal Air Force had successfully resisted the Luftwaffe's assault, and on 11 May 1941, Hitler called off the bombing campaign.

In October 1940, Italy invaded Greece but within days was repulsed and pushed back into Albania, where a stalemate soon occurred.[78] In December 1940, British Commonwealth forces began counter-offensives against Italian forces in Egypt and Italian East Africa.[79] By early 1941, with Italian forces having been pushed back into Libya by the Commonwealth, Churchill ordered a dispatch of troops from Africa to bolster the Greeks.[80] The Italian Navy also suffered significant defeats, with the Royal Navy putting three Italian battleships out of commission by carrier attack at Taranto, and neutralising several more warships at Cape Matapan.

sorry not the work of non players

The Allied forces were outnumbered, 36,000 men compared to a total of 200,000. Nevertheless at the end of 1940 they launched a counter-attack, Operation Compass

.

But yes then came Rommel and the tide turned

But then came more Allied power and the tide turned again, so whats your point ? Oh thats right, that we shouldnt have been Allies... Great

By the beginning of March the Eighth Army, advancing westwards along the North African coast, had reached the Tunisian border. Rommel and von Arnim found themselves in an Allied "two army" pincer. They were outflanked, outmanned and outgunned. The British Eighth Army shattered the Axis defense on the Mareth Line in late March and First Army in central Tunisia launched their main offensive in mid April to squeeze the Axis forces until their resistance in Africa collapsed. The Axis forces surrendered on 13 May 1943 yielding over 275,000 prisoners of war.

So tit for tat, the tide and balances of war turned ? Still dont see how this added up to a comment that England was not a player... or was that "joke" ?

 

[razoredge]

Sounds like something Hitler would say, or Stalin, or Mao, etc. You prove my points for me. Not to mention closing out by contradicting yourself saying "all is good" yet you go on incoherant tangents in many threads about how everything is not "all good". And stop bringing up your age as proof of your correctness. 50 years of ignorance doesn't prove anything.

Well Hitler, Stalin and Mao were not completely stupid and insane, time for peeps to stop measureing their value in number of off spring

All is good in the not seperating of the US and putting down of the world conquest of the Axis powers, was that hard to comprehend, it is not the topic ?

I said nothing about my being correct, I said I dont give a shit if I have a typo or cant spell a word or dont phrase things according to "standards"... thats "dont give a shit" not "Im right".

You calling me ignorant is rich

 

[cookiecutter]

I came to the forum wanting to reply to Cythraul and Dakryn but something has come up. I will get to it though! I'm really enjoying this though and I apologize if I come off as dickish every now and then. You two are actually some of my faves on the forum.

 

[Badbird]

I am enjoying this thread right now. Who would you people like Dakryn and cookicutter say is the most underrated president?

 

[Dak]

Sinking the Bismark was A. Due to German arrogance not leaving it properly protected, and B. A very lucky torpedo strike to the rudder. While a victory, hardly something to hold up as evidence of a huge player.

As far as Operation Compass, this again had more to do with Italian military ineptitude than anything. The Italians had overstretched their defenses and each position was not mutually supportable, so they had accomplished the most difficult task for a seriously outnumbered force (divide) of "divide and conquer". Also, the British heavy tanks outclassed the Italian anti-armor capabilties.

Again, Italy's military strategy was a joke and they often had their ass handed to them even with superior numbers.

But then came more Allied power and the tide turned again, so whats your point ? Oh thats right, that we shouldnt have been Allies... Great

I said Britain should never have been an ally. That is vastly more inclusive than "we shouldn't have been a member of the Allied forces". Again, you can't see outside of the little WWII bubble.

Well Hitler, Stalin and Mao were not completely stupid and insane, time for peeps to stop measureing their value in number of off spring

All is good in the not seperating of the US and putting down of the world conquest of the Axis powers, was that hard to comprehend, it is not the topic ?

I said nothing about my being correct, I said I dont give a shit if I have a typo or cant spell a word or dont phrase things according to "standards"... thats "dont give a shit" not "Im right".

You calling me ignorant is rich

I never said the afore mentioned tyrants were stupid, but they were mass murderers, which is something you advocated. As I said before, based off the atrocities on both sides, I don't believe the world is any better of a place with the current outcome than it would have been with an Axis victory.

LOL at mocking basic spelling.

 

[Dak]

You two are actually some of my faves on the forum.

@Tom: Under-rated? Jefferson by a longshot. Not for any specific act as president, but for his individual literary work/ideas/ideals.

 

[razoredge]

Sinking the Bismark was A. Due to German arrogance not leaving it properly protected, and B. A very lucky torpedo strike to the rudder. While a victory, hardly something to hold up as evidence of a huge player.

Crap man, thats how war goes, uboats sinking unarmed freight vessels and even passengers ships is what then ?

As far as Operation Compass, this again had more to do with Italian military ineptitude than anything. The Italians had overstretched their defenses and each position was not mutually supportable, so they had accomplished the most difficult task for a seriously outnumbered force (divide) of "divide and conquer". Also, the British heavy tanks outclassed the Italian anti-armor capabilties.

So you can make justifacations of your point of veiw for Italian and German over extension and lack of supply support but none for the Brits... priceless

Again, Italy's military strategy was a joke and they often had their ass handed to them even with superior numbers.

But yes, they were still players, even occupied France had a vital role, same as those that excaped occupied territory, again your arrogance allows you to side step the key words "World War"

I said Britain should never have been an ally. That is vastly more inclusive than "we shouldn't have been a member of the Allied forces". Again, you can't see outside of the little WWII bubble.

Im confused here, sounds like your saying the rest should have said "we dont like you so our mommy said we dont have to play with you"... precious

I never said the afore mentioned tyrants were stupid, but they were mass murderers, which is something you advocated.

Actually I dont advocate it but I am very anti population, there are better answers, most of which is "pull the little fucker out pal"

As I said before, based off the atrocities on both sides, I don't believe the world is any better of a place with the current outcome than it would have been with an Axis victory.

and you are entitled to this bizarre Axis victory opinion, but lets not be all limp wristed about mankind and his waring ways which in the past make anything that transpired during WWII rather tame... though the worst of it was nothing more than a updated... then hi-tech version of past "cleansings". Available photos and written/spoken records only make it more dramatic. We have none of these of tared and feathers heads stuck on pikes, or footage of rack tortures, stonings, or the blood dripping/running from the guillotine, rivers run red, blood soaked and scattered body parts on battle fields, nation wide hunts to kill all escaped and related survivors. Lets not be such pussys about our reality and all that transpired to come this day. The crying Jews themselves have ancient written records of thier rape and pillage of conquered villages and the Lord himself fireing down a full scale rath of fire and stone.

LOL at mocking basic spelling.

Douchbag ! I have never been able to spell 100%, there are days I stumble on words I did not the day before, there is no explaination for this, outside of frustrating the hell out of me Im not about to loose any sleep over it because douchbags on forums like to use it as a tool when they cant have their way with me. I dont edit and rarely re-read before posting, there are occasions I dont even know I fucked up, get over it and stick to the topic, fuck your distractions.

 

[Dak]

Crap man, thats how war goes, uboats sinking unarmed freight vessels and even passengers ships is what then ?

What about it?

So you can make justifacations of your point of veiw for Italian and German over extension and lack of supply support but none for the Brits... priceless



But yes, they were still players, even occupied France had a vital role, same as those that excaped occupied territory, again your arrogance allows you to side step the key words "World War"

Due to politics, the other players were allowed to have a role. The US could have crushed Germany much faster, but it had to allow it's allies time to meet all together in Britain. I'll admit to being a Patton fan, and he was repeatedly denied supplies to slow him down because he was making Montgomery's forces look like the joke they were.

Im confused here, sounds like your saying the rest should have said "we dont like you so our mommy said we dont have to play with you"... precious

Still unable to broaden your view. The US should not have been involved in European affairs at any point in time, and most definitely not on the side of Britain. History is much bigger than WWII, and what happens first should/does affect what happens later.

Actually I dont advocate it but I am very anti population, there are better answers, most of which is "pull the little fucker out pal"

Why do you hate people? Greed and the ignorance of it is the bane of humankind.

and you are entitled to this bizarre Axis victory opinion, but lets not be all limp wristed about mankind and his waring ways which in the past make anything that transpired during WWII rather tame... though the worst of it was nothing more than a updated... then hi-tech version of past "cleansings". Available photos and written/spoken records only make it more dramatic. We have none of these of tared and feathers heads stuck on pikes, or footage of rack tortures, stonings, or the blood dripping/running from the guillotine, rivers run red, blood soaked and scattered body parts on battle fields, nation wide hunts to kill all escaped and related survivors. Lets not be such pussys about our reality and all that transpired to come this day. The crying Jews themselves have ancient written records of thier rape and pillage of conquered villages and the Lord himself fireing down a full scale rath of fire and stone.

No disagreements with the atrocities that happened in times past, but I think NBC warfare is much, much worse than anything that happened before because "rain doesn't wash it away". The ill effects of radiation and poisonous chemicals last for decades.
Excusing bad things at one juncture of history by comparing it to other bad examples is poor reasoning.

Douchbag ! I have never been able to spell 100%, there are days I stumble on words I did not the day before, there is no explaination for this, outside of frustrating the hell out of me Im not about to loose any sleep over it because douchbags on forums like to use it as a tool when they cant have their way with me. I dont edit and rarely re-read before posting, there are occasions I dont even know I fucked up, get over it and stick to the topic, fuck your distractions.

It's one thing to have a problem and know it, it's another thing to know and not care. Especially when you can google/edit words you aren't sure about and takes like 5 secs. I have a problem with the laziness it takes not to correct it with such easy tools available, as opposed to having a problem with you not having every word in the english language memorized.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

@Tom: Under-rated? Jefferson by a longshot. Not for any specific act as president, but for his individual literary work/ideas/ideals.

Jefferson : American Democracy :: Karl Marx : Communism

 

[razoredge]

What about it?

Side stepped that one, ey ? Lets try again. Im pointing toward your double standard. Its well know (spelling era!) the Royal Navy was also over extended and that England was not in the process of randsacking the rest of Europe to support its war machine. It was standing alone there for quite some time. "German arrogance"... are you German ? You are arrogantly ignoring the situation of England in the first years. Yet want to distract me to events decades prior to 39 as some bizarre way to justify the potential destruction of England and the rest of Europe.

Originally Posted by Dakryn
Sinking the Bismark was A. Due to German arrogance not leaving it properly protected, and B. A very lucky torpedo strike to the rudder. While a victory, hardly something to hold up as evidence of a huge player.

Originally Posted by razoredge
Crap man, thats how war goes, uboats sinking unarmed freight vessels and even passengers ships is what then ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

?

Due to politics, the other players were allowed to have a role. The US could have crushed Germany much faster,but it had to allow it's allies time to meet all together in Britain.

Oh really, Is this the US that should not have been involved ? Is this the US that was still ramping up ? Is this the US that was also occupied in the Pacific ? Was Normandy just a show ? If not we should have charged into it alone and forget stopping to work out some Allied strategy ? Do you have any proof of this statement ?

I'll admit to being a Patton fan, and he was repeatedly denied supplies to slow him down because he was making Montgomery's forces look like the joke they were.

Nothing wrong with appreaciating Patton, who according to you syhould have been home eating popcorn. (left that typo on purpose). Was he repeatedly denied supplies to make Montgomery look good or to keep him from running into trouble ? Or is there perhaps a chance supplies were a tad short ? As far as I know there was little gas, food, tires and such in the homeland and our troops were spred all over the world. Naw Im sure its that simple, cause history states the British 8th division and Montogomery were worthless.... do you have any proof of any of this because its quite opposite of what I have learned.

Still unable to broaden your view.

To what ? The area STILL called Europe now potentially being called Germany ? Okey dooky, sounds awesome.

The US should not have been involved in European affairs at any point in time, and most definitely not on the side of Britain.

Bullshit

History is much bigger than WWII, and what happens first should/does affect what happens later.

I believe I already said no shit Sherlock earlier but this time I'll go with brilliant Watson. Im glad it all went the way it did.

Why do you hate people? Greed and the ignorance of it is the bane of humankind.

Because their fucktards ? Not sure where I said this anyhow. What I hate is mass breeders, we dont approve of puppy mills do we ? We support spay neuter programs for dogs and cats dont we ? Chaina (sp )had to take a close account of thier population issues didnt they ? There are reasons for these things. Will the likes of your mindset not be awakened until every tree is cut, every resource is exhausted and every piece of productive land is burbieville ? Concrete paradise ?

No disagreements with the atrocities that happened in times past, but I think NBC warfare is much, much worse than anything that happened before because "rain doesn't wash it away". The ill effects of radiation and poisonous chemicals last for decades.
Excusing bad things at one juncture of history by comparing it to other bad examples is poor reasoning.

All I said was mans got to stop being so limp wristed. I have always taken the contemplation of someone walking through the door of your house, having their way with your family, your assets, you and then "what would you do". Myself I would desire to pluck the eyes of such types out, shove them into their own mouths, cut their cocks off and shove them in there too and I could go on with this slow torture for hours into days and be found laughing proudly like a lunatic over their quivering corpses. Its simple innate animal instict... fuck with mine and die ! Thus the "atrocities" of mankinds waring history and all other species on the planet. Some are aggressive starters and some are aggressive finishers, nothing new.

It's one thing to have a problem and know it, it's another thing to know and not care. Especially when you can google/edit words you aren't sure about and takes like 5 secs. I have a problem with the laziness it takes not to correct it with such easy tools available, as opposed to having a problem with you not having every word in the english language memorized.

I put enought time into what I care to, its more amusing the time others with this fetish will put into making much of nothing... this aint school mum !

 

[Badbird]

@Tom: Under-rated? Jefferson by a longshot. Not for any specific act as president, but for his individual literary work/ideas/ideals.

Jefferson is always rated great which is where he should be. A underrated president if it weren't for Vietnam War is Lyndon B Johnson.

 

[Dak]

Side stepped that one, ey ? Lets try again. Im pointing toward your double standard. Its well know (spelling era!) the Royal Navy was also over extended and that England was not in the process of randsacking the rest of Europe to support its war machine. It was standing alone there for quite some time. "German arrogance"... are you German ? You are arrogantly ignoring the situation of England in the first years. Yet want to distract me to events decades prior to 39 as some bizarre way to justify the potential destruction of England and the rest of Europe.

The Royal Navy/Britain was over extended doing the same thing Germany tried to do, but it's cool when Britain runs around subjegating other nations because they weren't white.
Britain was every bit the expansionist monster as any other major power in history.
I don't have a double standard imagining sainthood for the victorious side.

Originally Posted by Dakryn
Sinking the Bismark was A. Due to German arrogance not leaving it properly protected, and B. A very lucky torpedo strike to the rudder. While a victory, hardly something to hold up as evidence of a huge player.

Originally Posted by razoredge
Crap man, thats how war goes, uboats sinking unarmed freight vessels and even passengers ships is what then ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

?

If the Allies hadn't been shipping supplies on passenger ships the latter situations wouldn't have been occuring. WWII was total war, so yeah, supply trains/ships are fair game.

Oh really, Is this the US that should not have been involved ? Is this the US that was still ramping up ? Is this the US that was also occupied in the Pacific ? Was Normandy just a show ? If not we should have charged into it alone and forget stopping to work out some Allied strategy ? Do you have any proof of this statement ?

Can you not carry on two entirely seperate arguments? Just because the US shouldn't have been involved, doesn't detract from the fact that they made all the allies save Russia look very very timid and weak by comparison.

Nothing wrong with appreaciating Patton, who according to you syhould have been home eating popcorn. (left that typo on purpose). Was he repeatedly denied supplies to make Montgomery look good or to keep him from running into trouble ? Or is there perhaps a chance supplies were a tad short ? As far as I know there was little gas, food, tires and such in the homeland and our troops were spred all over the world. Naw Im sure its that simple, cause history states the British 8th division and Montogomery were worthless.... do you have any proof of any of this because its quite opposite of what I have learned.

Basic military strategy is to best supply your best men. Patton was without a doubt the greatest general in the US forces, but he didn't play the politics and thus got shafted regularly, and eventually was allegedly assasinated because of his intentions after the war.

To what ? The area STILL called Europe now potentially being called Germany ? Okey dooky, sounds awesome.

Bullshit

Broaden your view outside your red, white, and blue tinted blinders. Every time the US involves itself in the affairs of other nations it only causes more problems in the future. Since you can't understand that WWII happened because we involved ourselves in WWI (and why this is important), I don't believe you can understand history in general.

I believe I already said no shit Sherlock earlier but this time I'll go with brilliant Watson. Im glad it all went the way it did.

I am glad you prefer feeling comfortable with the status quo over objective hindsight and conjecture. You must sleep wonderful at night.

Because their fucktards ? Not sure where I said this anyhow. What I hate is mass breeders, we dont approve of puppy mills do we ? We support spay neuter programs for dogs and cats dont we ? Chaina (sp )had to take a close account of thier population issues didnt they ? There are reasons for these things. Will the likes of your mindset not be awakened until every tree is cut, every resource is exhausted and every piece of productive land is burbieville ? Concrete paradise ?

Corporations and corrupt government are wasting earth's ample resources and turning the world into concrete jungles. The earth could sustain billions more people than are even currently on it, but total mismanagement excused by the overpopulation lie has people like you advocating genocide of "someone else". I have never met anyone who believed in overpopulation enough to start solving the supposed problem by taking the obvious personal step towards the "solution".

All I said was mans got to stop being so limp wristed. I have always taken the contemplation of someone walking through the door of your house, having their way with your family, your assets, you and then "what would you do". Myself I would desire to pluck the eyes of such types out, shove them into their own mouths, cut their cocks off and shove them in there too and I could go on with this slow torture for hours into days and be found laughing proudly like a lunatic over their quivering corpses. Its simple innate animal instict... fuck with mine and die ! Thus the "atrocities" of mankinds waring history and all other species on the planet. Some are aggressive starters and some are aggressive finishers, nothing new.

No disagreement here, except why get mad at someone who is trying to help "solve" the "overpopulation problem"?

I put enought time into what I care to, its more amusing the time others with this fetish will put into making much of nothing... this aint school mum !

 

[Dak]

Jefferson is always rated great which is where he should be. A underrated president if it weren't for Vietnam War is Lyndon B Johnson.

Under-rated? Try under-hated. LBJ's "Great Society" legislation is still destroying America, just like "New Deal" legislation.

 

[razoredge]

The Royal Navy/Britain was over extended doing the same thing Germany tried to do, but it's cool when Britain runs around subjegating other nations because they weren't white.
Britain was every bit the expansionist monster as any other major power in history.
I don't have a double standard imagining sainthood for the victorious side.



If the Allies hadn't been shipping supplies on passenger ships the latter situations wouldn't have been occuring. WWII was total war, so yeah, supply trains/ships are fair game.



Can you not carry on two entirely seperate arguments? Just because the US shouldn't have been involved, doesn't detract from the fact that they made all the allies save Russia look very very timid and weak by comparison.



Basic military strategy is to best supply your best men. Patton was without a doubt the greatest general in the US forces, but he didn't play the politics and thus got shafted regularly, and eventually was allegedly assasinated because of his intentions after the war.



Broaden your view outside your red, white, and blue tinted blinders. Every time the US involves itself in the affairs of other nations it only causes more problems in the future. Since you can't understand that WWII happened because we involved ourselves in WWI (and why this is important), I don't believe you can understand history in general.



I am glad you prefer feeling comfortable with the status quo over objective hindsight and conjecture. You must sleep wonderful at night.



Corporations and corrupt government are wasting earth's ample resources and turning the world into concrete jungles. The earth could sustain billions more people than are even currently on it, but total mismanagement excused by the overpopulation lie has people like you advocating genocide of "someone else". I have never met anyone who believed in overpopulation enough to start solving the supposed problem by taking the obvious personal step towards the "solution".




No disagreement here, except why get mad at someone who is trying to help "solve" the "overpopulation problem"?

To save time... cause Im lazy

I know about all the meddling and repression for economic reasons. Still abit different than the Nazi ideal was. Thats not making any excuses, just pointing to a fairly large difference.

It was war, the Allies had to try whatever means necessary to get supplies through. As I said before we should have been there on day one rather than spectate for a few years till it hit boiling point. Though I believe there might be a stratigy to waiting.

Of course Germany could over power small countries that had no intentions of mass distruction war or stop blitzkreig (however the fuck its spelled ) That tactic worked grat for Germany at first until the rest got up to speed, geeze its like you do keep ignoring the obvious and it doesnt change the determination and credit of the Brits for not falling. Timid does not describe, sorry.

Its only your opinion that the US shouldnt have been involved. Myself and many others will never agree with that crap.

Im not carrying on two arguements because the subject was WWII, do I have to keep saying this over and over... GEEZE !

I will look into WWI but remain firm that it mattered none come 1939. What was done at that time was what needed to be done, end of story, that is how everything in life works, hindsite become bullshit, deal with the problem at hand.

I do sleep well at night living in a English speaking nation and the lines in Europe remaining mostly stable. In fact I dont have to think about it cause we (they) all did what needed to be done.

Sustain billions more people ? OK maybe, Ill stick with my view of a better world. The corporate stuff gets into economics and politics and is deep as the ocean. No time for this now. Peeps need to pull it out... period... I did it for 20 years. My mate and I had one child, we did our part. I dont support genecide only bring it up as shock value because Im annoyed at the people that dont think about the size of the ant hill. Mankind has no checks and balances anymore, just breeds and breeds and breeds, the rest of the world supports their children, the Native Americans did not do this, they understood "mouths to feed" but fat chance of any other race getting it with the free handouts. "Oh my poor children are starving"... "well did you stop to think you might have been able to feed two just fine?"