RC June Lunacy (Lilies Once Black)

[Plastic Nathrakh]

look man, there is no question that i know what i am talking about and you do not, so i would stop now. i KNOW. you DO NOT KNOW. the problem isn't that you know nothing, the problem is that while knowing nothing you pretend to know everything. i don't care! i don't care! you're wrong forever and always! there is no way i will ever bend on this point because you are arguing that something absolute, something utterly set in stone and completely static forever is something other than it is. it will not work. if you accept that there is such a thing as a musical genre called black metal, then this album is it. no question, ever. not even one shred of doubt anywhere in the whole wide universe.

Entitlement issues. You seem to think because you say it, it's set in stone. It may be difficult to grasp so once more, READ THE OTHER FUCKING REVIEWS. You're an idiot.

also, there's obviously no question you think you know what you're talking about as why would someone question their own strong OPINION? I don't pretend to know everything, but I do know that you're trying to completely oppose what I KNOW as death metal. That is Tiamat's 'Sumerian Cry'

 

[einride]

Entitlement issues. You seem to think because you say it, it's set in stone. It may be difficult to grasp so once more, READ THE OTHER FUCKING REVIEWS. You're an idiot.

i don't care what other idiots say because what i say is the truth

answer me this then, why is treblinka listed as "black metal" on metal-archives if you're going to take that cesspool of stupidity and sheep mentality as some sort of gospel

 

[Plastic Nathrakh]

::bum thumbing::

answer me this then, why is treblinka listed as "black metal" on metal-archives if you're going to take that cesspool of stupidity and sheep mentality as some sort of gospel

Well, is it sheep mentality to brush your teeth twice daily because it helps eliminate bad breath and promote oral hygiene?

Anyway, Tiamat presented themselves differently in terms of production(obviously) and image(believe it or not) after the name change. Maybe they realized that death metal was the way they should sway as Dismember and Entombed were huge names. You can argue this point all you want, but factual evidence backs me up. Most of your arguments are still left up to the listener in the end. Say what you want, but I don't talk out of my ass. I come here to read musical discussion and the like for a reason.

Tiamat were definitely different.

 

[einride]

Anyway, Tiamat presented themselves differently in terms of production(obviously) and image(believe it or not) after the name change.

maybe they did, but the point is moot because "sumerian cry" is from before the name change. "sumerian cry" was recorded by treblinka. they changed name to tiamat shortly before release, only because they found out there was another band by the name of treblinka. they have corpsepaint and spikes on the photos. they write lyrics almost exclusively about satanism and occult topics. sumerian cry is a black metal album through and through, and VERY blatantly so, including embracing everything the genre was ever about. there is nothing at all to argue.

( let's play death metal! )
\

EDIT: also, you realize that you are arguing that the sole distinction between death metal and black metal is "production" and "image", even if the songs and lyrics are the exact same. well played man

 

[Plastic Nathrakh]

they have corpsepaint and spikes on the photos.


EDIT: also, you realize that you are arguing that the sole distinction between death metal and black metal is "production" and "image", even if the songs and lyrics are the exact same. well played man

Way to contradict yourself.
CORPSEPAINT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A BAND BEING BLACK METAL. I can also name dozens of death metal bands that exclusively have satanic/anti-christian lyrical themes so THAT is moot. Are you telling me Immolation, Incantation, Deicide, Vital Remains, The Chasm, Dead Congregation, Hate Eternal, Luciferion, alot of Morbid Angel, and so many others are black metal bands? Wait! They don't wear corpsepaint! It's the image isn't it einride? You made that distinction dude. Not me.

 

[Thanatopsis123]

You wouldn't be having the argument if everyone had voted for Therion like they should have.

 

[einride]

CORPSEPAINT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A BAND BEING BLACK METAL.

it does because it's a stereotypical black metal thing so at the very least it says something about how the band perceive themselves. if you write music that sounds like SAMAEL, ROTTING CHRIST, MAYHEM, BEHERIT etc. while writing lyrics about satanism and making sure to wear corpsepaint and spikes on band photos, i'm pretty sure you're intent on being a black metal band

granted a band's intention doesn't mean anything if they don't succeed, but since the result so blatantly bm in music, in lyrics, in image -- again, there is nothing to argue. i'm not saying corpsepaint makes black metal but it further reinforces an argument that's already exceptionally strong.

again, what makes the second treblinka demo bm and the treblinka album dm, if it's not image and production? have we painted ourselves into a little corner here?

 

[einride]

You wouldn't be having the argument if everyone had voted for Therion like they should have.

therion is life metal shit

 

[Plastic Nathrakh]

again, what makes the second treblinka demo bm and the treblinka album dm, if it's not image and production? have we painted ourselves into a little corner here?

Dude, I really feel no need to describe my opinion to you as I've already discussed why I think that happened. You still have yet to explain how this album is black metal other than your own abstract musical interpretations. Compare this album to another blatantly black metal album. Since you are the all-knowing it shouldn't be difficult.


Tiamat has such a different sound coming into this record because unlike other DM bands, they came from black metal, not thrash.

 

[swizzlenuts]

Play Sumerian Cry at tuned at E. Would sound like black metal.

Black metal is more of a loosely defined genre, unlike death metal. Death metal is usually a certain sound and defined precisely. Black metal covers bands like Cobalt, Bathory, Enslaved, Varathron, Necromantia, Root, Samael, Mercyful Fate, and Venom. All are completely different. Death metal covers bands like Possessed, Morbid Angel, Death, Suffocation. They are so close it isn't even funny.

 

[einride]

Dude, I really feel no need to describe my opinion to you as I've already discussed why I think that happened. You still have yet to explain how this album is black metal other than your own abstract musical interpretations. Compare this album to another blatantly black metal album. Since you are the all-knowing it shouldn't be difficult.

hahaha what a fucking copout

you didn't discuss shit that wasn't promptly disarmed and disposed of. sumerian cry is a treblinka album with three of the same songs that were on treblinka's only black metal demo, yet you insist that one is bm and the other is dm. there is SOMETHING FISHY here man.

anyway. although it is a pretty unique album, it's very similar to samael "worship him", rotting christ "passage to arcturo", beherit "the oath of black blood"... it's typical for the kind of stuff that emerged from the very early so called "second wave" of bm, before norway happened and all that.

here are some links since you're not likely to have heard these things







but i'm tired of this shit so i'm going to sum up what i have to say:

i am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that if "sumerian cry" was 1) tuned to E standard 2) recorded in another studio and 3) released under the name treblinka, no one person would call it anything other than black metal. these are all very superficial things that don't matter if you have enough insight to see through them.

or, to be even more succinct: it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. it's likely to be a duck and not even the worst poster on the forums can make it otherwise

later g-dog

 

[Reign in Acai]

Even though our debut album was primitive, it displats very well what we were trying to do at that point - a total black metal image. It felt much better with our new band and name and the whole concept was more solid.

-Johan Edlund


The execution could be argued in favor of dm, but the intent clearly says otherwise.There's certainly portions that sway clear to the right on the dm geiger counter, but you also have to realize that these were very young lads still honing their craft. The road to their vision was a broken cobblestone path.

 

[einride]

Even though our debut album was primitive, it displats very well what we were trying to do at that point - a total black metal image. It felt much better with our new band and name and the whole concept was more solid.

-Johan Edlund

haha, sweet

there's also a euronymous interview from around that time, although i can't find it now, that refers to tiamat and grotesque as sweden's only current black metal bands, and as everyone know, euro's words is black metal law

The execution could be argued in favor of dm, but the intent clearly says otherwise.There's certainly portions that sway clear to the right on the dm geiger counter, but you also have to realize that these were very young lads still honing their craft. The road to their vision was a broken cobblestone path.

i will grant one thing: the intro riff to "necrophagious shadows" is totally a dm riff, but "a blaze in the northern sky" is full of dm riffs too and you don't see people calling that a death metal album all that often

 

[lurch70]

i don't have any of the cd's to vote here ... at least you could have thrown in Blood Red Throne or something ...

 

[J.]

this is for bands that were good and then turned shit. blood red throne has always been shit.

 

[lurch70]

fair enough ...

 

[EricT]

@ Plastic Nathrakh

I'm actually EXTREMELY curious... What genres would you define these 2 tracks in this zip here:

https://www.yousendit.com/download/cmcwb242eFhrUmxMWEE9PQ

(Nobody else answer till he has)

 

[Plastic Nathrakh]

i am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that if "sumerian cry" was 1) tuned to E standard 2) recorded in another studio and 3) released under the name treblinka, no one person would call it anything other than black metal. these are all very superficial things that don't matter if you have enough insight to see through them.

Whatever dude, it still comes down to your opinion, which has still yet to explain how it is black metal, versus everyone else outside of a few here that slightly agree with you. Hell, I've even heard Sumerian Cry referred to as a Doom record. It's death metal. The end. GTFO.

Even being a death metal record, it's not that great.

BTW, none of those vids sounded even remotely similar in style to Tiamat.

 

[Plastic Nathrakh]

@ Plastic Nathrakh

I'm actually EXTREMELY curious... What genres would you define these 2 tracks in this zip here:

https://www.yousendit.com/download/cmcwb242eFhrUmxMWEE9PQ

(Nobody else answer till he has)

Well this is fun! Never heard either of these/

The first track is obviously death metal. Precision drumming with occasional symbol chokes for accentuation. Thumping bass carving out the rhythm. Vocals sound extremely inspired by Brett Hoffmann! I don't even need to mention the riffage. I usually don't hold onto tracks that have such production as I'm really OCD about that, but this shit is heavenly. Who the fuck is this?

As for the second, though clearly different in tone and presentation, sounds very Immolation-esque (Here in After to clarify) at times. I'm sure this is actually at least two or three different songs. Death metal. The riffs clearly can't be anything else. Too evil to be thrash(riffs), but definitely inspired by it.

 

[EricT]

Edit: Wait... you don't recognize EITHER of those tracks? What kind of fucking rock do you live under. Also... Brett Hoffman? Jesus... that fucking track was recorded while Hoffman was jerking off in his mothers basement. And the second track, also... way before immolation. God you suck.

Ok, now that we've cleared that up... tell me how the fuck THIS:

http://www.yousendit.com/download/cmcwb245RkVJMHZIRGc9PQ

Is black metal,
While this:

https://www.yousendit.com/download/cmcwb245RkVLVlZMWEE9PQ

Is death metal.

Hellbutchers vocals? The fact that it wasn't recorded in a tin can? The poor recording medium resulting in it having a very wobbly pitch maybe?