Reasons why Logic 9 is stupid

[AdamWathan]

Hopefully someone can tell me how to make these parts of Logic unstupid but so far I am not stoked.

1. Pasting an item inside of another item doesn't work properly. Even with drag set to No Overlap, it leaves the region underneath overlapping. And it won't let me crossfade on the edges. So I cannot paste good drum hits over bad ones. End of story.

2. When I drag a region, it does not show the waveform as you are dragging. This is ridiculous. I cannot tell where I am moving anything. If I am trying to phase align a sample, it cannot be done without a bunch of trial and error and bullshit guessing.

3. You cannot see the grid behind regions, they are totally opaque so the only time reference you have are tiny ticks at the top of the screen.

4. The playhead can only be positioned in the ruler. Makes it a bitch trying to line it up at the beginning of a transient somewhere to paste.

5. Flex mode is sooo fucking weak compared to Beat Detective. It does not show you how it is "fixing" things at all and you cannot correct anything it doesn't do properly since you don't have access to any of the crossfades that it must be making behind the scenes, in true Apple "we do everything for you and everything is easy *mumble*but if something doesn't work exactly right the automatic way you are fucked*mumble*" fashion. I was just trying to fix some drums earlier and I kept getting a dropout in my overheads between two hits. I couldn't figure out why and couldn't fix it because flex time doesn't let me see what's going on behind the scenes to allow me to fix things manually.

6. The Drum Replacement/Doubling thing is useless. Even with the sensitivity slider all the way to the bottom it is missing some of my OBVIOUS hits. And you CANNOT manually adjust any of those transient markers. You would think that it would use the same transients you detected and manually corrected in the sample editor but no, it does it totally independently. Speaking of transient mode in the sample editor...

7. GIVE ME A GODDAMN SLIDER FOR ADJUSTING TRANSIENT SENSITIVITY! It's there in the Drum Replacement function! But in the sample editor we get two stupid buttons that can't even keep up with me clicking at a slow pace and leave me no visual reference of where the sensitivity is actually sitting. The fucking transient detection should be universal throughout the whole program.

8. Why can't I select multiple tracks in the arrange window?!

9. Why can't I rearrange tracks in the mix window? They follow no logical order, they don't even match up with the order I put them in in the arrange window.

10. Panning from -64 to +63 is retarded. Yes I understand the 0-127 MIDI relation. But if -64 = +63, then -2 = +1 and -1 = 0... sooo, two positions for center? How do I pan things symmetrically if it's not 100% either way? Yes, I know I could never hear the difference. Still super annoying to my anal self.


I'm sure there are more but those are the big ones that forced me to order M-Powered.

It seems Logic is more of a composers tool than a real DAW for people who actually have to track and edit multitrack band performances. Machinated is the only dude I know of on here who uses Logic to actually track bands and I think he is just way more patient and more tolerant than me when it comes to how things should work :/

Does anyone have any solutions to these problems? What the hell is the proper workflow for using Flex Time to correct multitrack drums when it won't work properly automatically?

 

[Metaltastic]

Man, those all sound like pretty annoying things indeed (especially the bit about panning, good god do I feel ya there ), a pity as I really thought Logic 9 was pretty appealing! (still do, but not as much)

 

[SentencedToBurn]

3. You cannot see the grid behind regions, they are totally opaque so the only time reference you have are tiny ticks at the top of the screen.

4. The playhead can only be positioned in the ruler. Makes it a bitch trying to line it up at the beginning of a transient somewhere to paste.



8. Why can't I select multiple tracks in the arrange window? Gay.

9. Why can't I rearrange tracks in the mix window? They follow no logical order, they don't even match up with the order I put them in in the arrange window.

10. Panning from -64 to +63 is retarded. Yes I understand the 0-127 MIDI relation. But if -64 = +63, then -2 = +1 and -1 = 0... sooo, two positions for center? How do I pan things symmetrically if it's not 100% either way? Yes, I know I could never hear the difference. Still super annoying to my anal self.

Alot of this is you being anal i must admit . but anyways. When you rearrange tracks in the arrange window, it should translate to the mix window. Its weird if yours isnt doing that.

The whole panning thing is you just being anal. If you were mixing on an actual mixing board, you would never have them EXACTLY symmetrical. It doesnt need to be symmetrical. You mix it until it sounds good to your EARS. This is an example of mixing with your eyes which is never a good thing to do.

Though you cant select multiple tracks in the arrange window, you can select all the waveforms on whatever tracks you want, which is what you want to do in the arrange window anyhow. anything else can be done in the mix window.

And the whole grid thing.... to each his own. I get along with it perfectly fine. Im used to lining it up with the lines or lookin up at the ruler at the top. There is guiding lines so you know where your puting something.

Each DAW has its downfall. I personally think your being a tad harsh but hey... what are you gonna do?? If Logic isnt working for you, perhaps pro tools is the better choice. It took me a few months to fully get used to logic 8. Now that i have 9, im loving it.

 

[Rex Rocker]

So on Logic it also goes from 64 to 63? I thought that was a bug in GarageBand.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

So on Logic it also goes from 64 to 63? I thought that was a bug in GarageBand.

no that is a bug in apple's development team

anyway, there has been no better DAW for me than Sonar, and I always mention that when DAW choice topics come up. Its the most keep it simple stupid approved DAW that seems to be designed from pure logical concepts. I remember I first tried recording with Cubase and never got the hang of it, and then first time i tried Sonar it was like I had been using it for years, I have even dicked around with pro tools and reaper and while reaper may be good, it still has its slow bulky awkwardness about it. There is something about Sonar that makes it so natural to use to anyone that fairly knows there way around a computer.

There has always been something about Logic's GUI in general that makes me feel uncomfortable, more so than Cubase/Neuendo, but then again I really do feel that Sonar, Pro Tools and Reaper have a much more natural feel to them.

 

[Erkan]

Man it's a shame about Logic... I've heard it's an awesome DAW from some people but some of these points really do seem stupid indeed.

 

[Morgan C]

Man it's a shame about Logic... I've heard it's an awesome DAW from some people but some of these points really do seem stupid indeed.

Unfortunately I think every DAW has stupid parts, its just the nature of it. I think Reaper may soon be the top DAW simply because they strive to FIX these stupid parts, and listen to the customers, instead of sticking with ridiculous things like Logic's panning law because its part of their "design philosophy". But even Reaper has things I consider fairly stupid.

anyway, there has been no better DAW for me than Sonar, and I always mention that when DAW choice topics come up.

I use Sonar too, and while I haven't really explored many other DAWs (none apart from Reaper and then only very briefly), it does seem that every time people complain about Pro Tools or Cubase or whatever, none of those points apply to Sonar.

However, Sonar has its bad points as well. The built in Sonitus plugins are trash (although so easy to use, so I always use the EQ even tho its terrible), and AudioSnap is an awesome idea that just wasn't implemented well. Then they came out with AudioSnap 2.0 which, apparently, is even worse.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

That all sounds pretty miserable. I don't think any of that is anal at all.

panning from 63 to 63? what the hell? Maybe I'm just obsessive compulsive, but that would really bug me!! Call me guilty of mixing with my eyes but it also strongly irks me to have unsymmetrical panners. I would probably go through great pains to set them symmetrical on a hardware board anyway haha.

Why don't you switch DAWs?

 

[Kazrog]

These same things annoyed me about Logic when I gave it a spin for a couple of months (in particular, track ordering and the pan numbers - WTF!!!!???.) I chose Cubase and I'm very happy with that decision.

That said, there's some great plugins included with Logic, that I wish I could buy seperately as VST plugins.

 

[::XeS::]

I said. I use Logic 8 for one project (a single song with a friend) and after 2 weeks I ordered PT M-powered, MPTK2 and a profire 2626. Another world.
The panning is pretty lame but it's the same in Digital Performer...I can't see the utility of this thing..
I don't know why, but some team seems to complicate also the most simple things...to distinguish their products from the others.
Protools, but also Sonar and other Daw are so simple..you immediately understand how they work!
Logic and Digital Performer (expecially DP) are nightmares. They are DAW, not games..you have to work with them and do things as quick as possible. You have not to search here and there how to do a basic track movement etc...

 

[greyskull]

all the reasons and more why i cant stand logic.
fades in logic. really. WHAT THE FUCK if im gonna fade i want to be able to adjust the fade after i've put it in without having to adjust some number in a tiny dialog box somewhere.

 

[Ola Englund]

Logic pwns!!!!

 

[jipchen]

1. Pasting an item inside of another item doesn't work properly. Even with drag set to No Overlap, it leaves the region underneath overlapping. And it won't let me crossfade on the edges. So I cannot paste good drum hits over bad ones. End of story.

Perhaps i'm getting this one wrong, but why don't you just cut out the bad hit and then insert the good one?
I did it like this in Cubase, and it's so much easier in Logic. Especially the editing is 10000x faster with Logic for me.. Cubase always felt like a bad joke. If you cut a track, the part was fucking deleted and you couldn't drag it 2 seconds longer any more. waaaaah

 

[AdamWathan]

Perhaps i'm getting this one wrong, but why don't you just cut out the bad hit and then insert the good one?
I did it like this in Cubase, and it's so much easier in Logic. Especially the editing is 10000x faster with Logic for me.. Cubase always felt like a bad joke. If you cut a track, the part was fucking deleted and you couldn't drag it 2 seconds longer any more. waaaaah

Because it literally takes twice as long. I would still be using Reaper if that wasn't an issue for me.

The grid is the worst part, it is basically like having no grid at all. Even the grid that is there, it ONLY shows beats no matter what, sub divisions are only shown as little ticks on the ruler.

Where were all you Logic haters when I was looking to switch? Everyone only had good things to say at the time

 

[updog]

8. Why can't I select multiple tracks in the arrange window? Gay.

Um... Yes you can... Did you try Shift-clicking them yet?

Or maybe I missed your point.

Anyway, Logic seems to have its quirks but I think reading the manual clarifies stuff up. I'm only in the page 600 myself though, it's kind of a hard read, from the computer screen and all.

 

[gabriel g.]

Adam did you realy took the time to work through logic 9 without having any project going on?

Man it is a NEW DAW for you, you need to sit down and have to work through it without any clients behind your back....

It will take some time, but you will see it is AWSOME!!!!


And panning from 64 - 63, da hell, mix with your ears and not with your eyes.....

 

[Machinated]

I think a lot of the issues are because you are expecting it to work like your old DAW (reaper) does.

some of the issues you mentioned you just have to get used to, but I really don't have a big problem with any of the things you brought up.

in the mixer, at the top right make sure you have it set to "arrange" and not "all". if its on arrange it will follow the same layout as the arrange window.

its pretty annoying not being able to move busses in the mixer, but if you really want to you can activate automation on all the tracks which makes them show up in the arrange window, and then you can rearrange.

its a bit annoying not being able to move multiple tracks at once in the arrange window, but if you want to select multi tracks you can shift click the tracks and it will apply it to them. or if you select all the tracks in the mixer window you can perform things to all those tracks at once. With flex mode you can control the flex window, its in the inspector in the second drop down box.

in terms of the "pasting one hit over the other" just delete the bit you dont want and paste the other one over it..

the panning thing doesnt really bug me, they are just numbers. if something was panned either +1 or -1 would you really notice?

with the drum editing thing, if changing the parameters in the inspector doesn't help, you can always use the time stretching algo (just cut after the transient so that doesnt get fucked. just exit flex mode view, cut just after the transient and hold option while you drag the bottom corner.

 

[Ola Englund]

You guys SUCK! Logic rules! YEAAAAH BABY!

 

[greyskull]

uler.

Where were all you Logic haters when I was looking to switch? Everyone only had good things to say at the time

I've been here all along

 

[AdamWathan]

I think a lot of the issues are because you are expecting it to work like your old DAW (reaper) does.

some of the issues you mentioned you just have to get used to, but I really don't have a big problem with any of the things you brought up.

in the mixer, at the top right make sure you have it set to "arrange" and not "all". if its on arrange it will follow the same layout as the arrange window.

its pretty annoying not being able to move busses in the mixer, but if you really want to you can activate automation on all the tracks which makes them show up in the arrange window, and then you can rearrange.

its a bit annoying not being able to move multiple tracks at once in the arrange window, but if you want to select multi tracks you can shift click the tracks and it will apply it to them. or if you select all the tracks in the mixer window you can perform things to all those tracks at once. With flex mode you can control the flex window, its in the inspector in the second drop down box.

in terms of the "pasting one hit over the other" just delete the bit you dont want and paste the other one over it..

the panning thing doesnt really bug me, they are just numbers. if something was panned either +1 or -1 would you really notice?

with the drum editing thing, if changing the parameters in the inspector doesn't help, you can always use the time stretching algo (just cut after the transient so that doesnt get fucked. just exit flex mode view, cut just after the transient and hold option while you drag the bottom corner.

Thanks Ed I will try these.

Still the worst for me is not having any grid visible in the arrange window, those little ticks are impossible.

Also, THERE IS NO WAY TO UNDO ACCIDENTAL FADER MOVEMENTS! URGH Drive me fucking nuts!!! You move a fader to try something, then want it to go back to where it was before you can't do anything. Cmd+Z only seems to undo stuff in the arrange window, it doesn't affect panning or fader changes.

Also, is there a way to set something back to it's original length/speed after stretching it? I was hoping there was a parameter somewhere I could just change back to 100% because obviously undo only works if that's the last change I made in the mix.

Still think it's retarded to have to cut something else out before I can paste something else there. The entire reason I switched from Reaper was because that was doubling the amount of time it took to make every edit. Like trimming something in Reaper, if I want to extend something over another region I had to shorten the other region first. This is an example of the same behaviour (albeit Logic is still miles better than Reaper in this department)



Ed what exactly is your drum editing workflow in Logic and how do you do it quickly and efficiently? I am never going to be okay with the fact that Flex Mode completely hides what it's doing to my regions. No one seems to even know how it works in slicing mode, there is no information about how it's actually changing things anywhere.