Metal is obviously the most abrasively anti-organized-religion subculture you could find, with the exception of a few bands who's message is Christian values and stuff. However, many metal fans are either observantly religious or come from religious backgrounds. Others don't. I'm interested in A) Your perspective on religion, and how your background and interest in metal affect it, and B) your thoughts on the use of religious messages (Satanic, pro-Christian, Bhuddist, or whatever) in music.
Religion and Metal
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llamaking
A Souless Elegy
- Sep 10, 2007
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1. Im a Christian
2. I Love Metal
I come from a Christian home yes, but I dont see why being a Christian should stop anyone from enjoying metal?
What I dont understand is the people who freak out at metal that are christians. They dont understand that its just music, which is entertainment. Thus the Christians that bash metal music give Christianity a bad name for being self-righteous and condeming a music/culture they know nothing about 99.9% of the time.
I like music that is pro-christian yes, but if its not, whatever i mean the whole reason a lot of bands do anti-religious messages is to piss people off, and im down with that =]. Heck, Tom Ayara, lead singer of Slayer, is Catholic.
The point is Christians can be metal fans too =]
Rock on \m/
2. I Love Metal
I come from a Christian home yes, but I dont see why being a Christian should stop anyone from enjoying metal?
What I dont understand is the people who freak out at metal that are christians. They dont understand that its just music, which is entertainment. Thus the Christians that bash metal music give Christianity a bad name for being self-righteous and condeming a music/culture they know nothing about 99.9% of the time.
I like music that is pro-christian yes, but if its not, whatever i mean the whole reason a lot of bands do anti-religious messages is to piss people off, and im down with that =]. Heck, Tom Ayara, lead singer of Slayer, is Catholic.
The point is Christians can be metal fans too =]
Rock on \m/
kingcarcas
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ÎÏεβοÏ
Member
Satanism is shock-value (pissing people off), anti-religion is hating an age old destructive institution which continues to plague humanity even in an age where it is 99.9% dis-proven. Big difference.
Music is much more than entertainment. Metal has an ideology, even if it has been corrupted by media assimilation. And a huge part of that ideology is despising monotheistic religion.
Tom Araya is a whore.
I know Christians that like metal, but generally not the more extreme stuff. I agree that Satanism is pretty much bullshit. The whole Church of Satan stuff is just individualism with a creepy name, and if people were really individualistic, they wouldn't want to label themselves as Satanists.
Pissing people off is one thing, but what about the black metal guys in Norway who burned churches and killed people?
I think most anti-religious messages are for real. Most of the Satanic stuff, on the other hand, is just trying to piss people off.
And, in the words of Bruce Dickinson (himself a Catholic), "You know religion has a lot to answer for."
Seditious
GodSlayer
more so than something so intelligent as 'individualism', I'd say it's what I've observed to be modern western suburban teen stoner ethics... 'the church of satan' is something likely to be worn by the same people who wear Linkin Park t-shirts.
You can't pin the Satanic crap only on nu-metal and shitty rap metal. What about death metal bands like Deicide? Satanic crap knows no boundaries (Except power metal and folk metal). "Modern Western Suburban Teen Stoner Ethics?" I dunno...most of the kids at my school who smoke pot are into fuckin' Rush (We seem to be stuck in the past). Besides which, there are tons of adult Satanists...
The best example of what I'm talking about would be the interview with Gaahl in Metal: A Headbanger's Journey (WATCH IT NOW!), in which Sam Dunn asks Gaahl what his largest influence is. Literally 10 seconds of though later, Gaahl answers: "Satan" Sam asks him what Satan represents to him. Another five seconds later Gaahl responds: "Freedom"
So...it's not just kids, it's also morons.
Now...freedom would seem to be not being tied down to any sort of restrictive ideology. Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are extremely restrictive. But Satanism (which would seem to be simply an offshoot of Christianity) would appear to be somewhat restrictive, in that you are forced to believe something, although there aren't so many restrictions on your actions. True individualism wouldn't require you to believe anything
The best example of what I'm talking about would be the interview with Gaahl in Metal: A Headbanger's Journey (WATCH IT NOW!), in which Sam Dunn asks Gaahl what his largest influence is. Literally 10 seconds of though later, Gaahl answers: "Satan" Sam asks him what Satan represents to him. Another five seconds later Gaahl responds: "Freedom"
So...it's not just kids, it's also morons.
Now...freedom would seem to be not being tied down to any sort of restrictive ideology. Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are extremely restrictive. But Satanism (which would seem to be simply an offshoot of Christianity) would appear to be somewhat restrictive, in that you are forced to believe something, although there aren't so many restrictions on your actions. True individualism wouldn't require you to believe anything
llamaking
A Souless Elegy
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Acutally Christianity isnt restrictive at all, the whole point is freedom through Christ.
Yea I watched headbangers journey (have it on my ipod =P) its a great doccumentary. That aside, that Ghaal interview was hilarious lol.
I also agree that the black metal guys who burn churches and kill people are real, but at the same time I laugh at how serious they are.
Yea I watched headbangers journey (have it on my ipod =P) its a great doccumentary. That aside, that Ghaal interview was hilarious lol.
I also agree that the black metal guys who burn churches and kill people are real, but at the same time I laugh at how serious they are.
Ok, Jesus's ideas weren't all that restrictive, but the dogma of the church sure is; no sex outside of marriage, no abortion, no homosexuality, and no other religions. And the society created and perpetuated by the Church is unbelievably constraining. Highly Christian societies are highly conformist, resistant to change, and unaccepting of differences. The concept of heavenly rewards if you just suffer through it in this life is simply ridiculous.
I too find black metal guys hilarious; who can take someone looking like KISS and calling themselves Xaarquath seriously?
And just so you know, I saw Bullet for my Emo live and they sucked. After the first song everyone started chanting for Maiden to come on. They actually got kicked off that tour for sucking. But hey, what you like is what you like. At least they're better than My Chemical Romance.
I too find black metal guys hilarious; who can take someone looking like KISS and calling themselves Xaarquath seriously?
And just so you know, I saw Bullet for my Emo live and they sucked. After the first song everyone started chanting for Maiden to come on. They actually got kicked off that tour for sucking. But hey, what you like is what you like. At least they're better than My Chemical Romance.
Tallerthanatree
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Agreed. I'm a Christian myself, and I know exactly what you're talking about. But nowhere does the Bible say that you have to suffer through you're whole life. Everyone goes through rough times.
I know. Thats why I dont care when my frineds make fun of my music; I make fun of it enough myself.
Tr00 Kvlt Black Metaller = Geek
Ha. Awesome. I hate BFMV.
Tallerthanatree
Member
Have you seen the remix?
"What are the main ideas behind Gorogoroth's music?"
"Freedom"
"What does Satan embody? What does he represent?"
"Satan."
They basically switch the dialogue around.
Tallerthanatree
Member
Wow...that's pretty crazy...guess I don't really know what I'm talking about. But...if you notice, most Christian extreme metal is metalcore or heavily metalcore influenced; As I Lay Dying, Still Remains, etc...
Nothing is better than the Ghaal interview...except his comment on it: something along the lines of; "actually the interview was an hour and a half, so they cut a lot of it, but I thought they covered most of the important stuff, so I thought it came out all right."
All righty, then...although, this is coming from a guy who beat a man nearly to death then gave him a cup to bleed in so he wouldn't ruin the carpet...so, yeah...Gorgoroth kinda suck, anyhow...
Frankly, I like a lot of laughable bands...Motley Crue, anyone? And nothing is less intelligent than early Bathory (maybe Venom?), but I'll be the first to make fun of it...so there.
I know the bible says nothing about suffering, but the church sure does. Mortification of the flesh...yuck. I'm being mature and not talking about little boys...just look on limewire for Altar Boy by Stephen Lynch.
Basically, the Church has no problem with people living in misery because poeple are evil and weak and if you don't do anything bad you might go to heaven...I find the concept of original sin truly offensive...
Nothing is better than the Ghaal interview...except his comment on it: something along the lines of; "actually the interview was an hour and a half, so they cut a lot of it, but I thought they covered most of the important stuff, so I thought it came out all right."
All righty, then...although, this is coming from a guy who beat a man nearly to death then gave him a cup to bleed in so he wouldn't ruin the carpet...so, yeah...Gorgoroth kinda suck, anyhow...
Frankly, I like a lot of laughable bands...Motley Crue, anyone? And nothing is less intelligent than early Bathory (maybe Venom?), but I'll be the first to make fun of it...so there.
I know the bible says nothing about suffering, but the church sure does. Mortification of the flesh...yuck. I'm being mature and not talking about little boys...just look on limewire for Altar Boy by Stephen Lynch.
Basically, the Church has no problem with people living in misery because poeple are evil and weak and if you don't do anything bad you might go to heaven...I find the concept of original sin truly offensive...
Melkor66
Member
I am an atheist and disagree with all forms of religion, however when it comes to music, I don't mind to having religious content in the songs, in my eyes if the music is good and the band are sincere about their mesage, even if I don't agree with it, then I'll still listen to it. In my view, rreligious concepts can be intresting, for example, I am a big fan of Viking metal with bands like Enslaved or Moonsorrow in my collection. Now, I don't follow the Odinist faith, but the images and ideas the lyrics convey are very powerful, like the images and ideas you would get from a fictional book. I disagree strongly with the Christian faith and do listen to a lot of black metal, this does'nt mean I agree with a satanic ideology over a christian one, these are both extremely primitive ideas. I have listened to bands like Antestor and As I Lay Dying. I don't agree with their Christian values but if the music is good then i'll listen to it.
Yes! Thank you. I agree pretty much 100% and I'm also a huge fan of Viking metal...I generally avoid black metal because the overt Satanism is frequently all it has going for it. As for Satanic ideology, I guess I prefer it to Christian ideology, but I think the thing is that if people had just done what Jesus said, everyone would be happy. The ideology of the Christian church, however, is one of intolerance, conformity, and a morbid fascination with the death of God. Not a big fan. Frankly, I agree that both Christianity and Satanism are stupid. Everyone should be forced to think for themselves and decide what they believe.
Tallerthanatree
Member
Oh, I see.
I know..... I've met other Christians who dont even attend church for those reasons. I cant blame them.
llamaking
A Souless Elegy
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Yes! Thank you. I agree pretty much 100% and I'm also a huge fan of Viking metal...I generally avoid black metal because the overt Satanism is frequently all it has going for it. As for Satanic ideology, I guess I prefer it to Christian ideology, but I think the thing is that if people had just done what Jesus said, everyone would be happy. The ideology of the Christian church, however, is one of intolerance, conformity, and a morbid fascination with the death of God. Not a big fan. Frankly, I agree that both Christianity and Satanism are stupid. Everyone should be forced to think for themselves and decide what they believe.
Yes a lot of todays church is corrupt, and teaching nothing anywhere close to what Jesus said, which is sad and again among non - christians gives us a bad name.
Do you assume that I do not think for myself? I chose christianity, I didnt have to.
And lastly, the ridiculous ideology you see is of the mega churches that do a lot of that crap to make money and it is offensive even to me, a Christian.
llamaking
A Souless Elegy
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Thats not what it believes at all...
Christians believe that it is impossible to get to heaven by works and that you can only go to heaven thru the saving grace of Christ.
Actually, Christians believe all varieties of shit. Hence the various sects and whatnot. Luther was the one who believed you couldn't get in through good works.
I don't have a problem with anyone who actually follows Jesus' original ideas, but I really hate the church itself, for being a corrupt, intolerant, mass-murdering, promoter of ignorance and deceit, and an all-around piece of shit. Sorry to anyone who is offended. Stay out of Norway next time.
Seditious
GodSlayer
Exactly, I didn't say it was just teens, I said it was the kind of behavior I've seen in teens (I never suggested some people never grow up or develop any better thought)... like saying some womens behavior is like that of prostitutes, I'm not saying it's only actual prostitutes that do this or that, just using them for comparison
following the church of satan bullshit, and believing in satan, are two different things, as different as being a Christian, and being someone who worships Gandhi as an idol of civil disobedience. (to say as different as 'christians' and 'people who admire jesus' isn't even accurate, because they're not even looking at the same thing)
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