Religion and Metal

[waif]

You obviously haven't read his argument. He doesn't even have an argument. All he said was that he doesn't shove his religion down anyone's throat. You're saying there's no logical basis for that? It's called READING (as in, his post - as in, before you say dumb things about it).

As a matter of fact, you happen to be wrong.

He said he doesn't shove his religion down other people's throats
I was pointing out that since there are no logical arguments supporting the authenticity of any of the things Christians believe, he can't argue that. So needless to say, any Christian in an argument will simply switch over to BS mode and start spewing stuff about conceptualism and faith and crap and try to move the discussion away from the logical fallacy inherent in believing that 2000 years ago the Romans killed some guy who somehow manages to simultaneously be God and the Son of God, and whose mother was a virgin despite being married, and then he totally came back from the dead after three days in a cave. Cuz...that's all total crap. Also, there is no evidence for God's existence. So, instead of using logic and reason to win arguments, the Christian must resort to emotional, pseudo-philosophical BS.

 

[WeAreTheLastMen]

As a matter of fact, you happen to be wrong.

He said he doesn't shove his religion down other people's throats
I was pointing out that since there are no logical arguments supporting the authenticity of any of the things Christians believe, he can't argue that. So needless to say, any Christian in an argument will simply switch over to BS mode and start spewing stuff about conceptualism and faith and crap and try to move the discussion away from the logical fallacy inherent in believing that 2000 years ago the Romans killed some guy who somehow manages to simultaneously be God and the Son of God, and whose mother was a virgin despite being married, and then he totally came back from the dead after three days in a cave. Cuz...that's all total crap. Also, there is no evidence for God's existence. So, instead of using logic and reason to win arguments, the Christian must resort to emotional, pseudo-philosophical BS.

You must be having a bad day or something... I thought you said this wasn't a "Christian bashing" thread?
Anyway, obviously there's no proof of God's nonexistance, either, so ALL WE CAN do is talk about faith and belief. You're ridiculous denouncement of conceptualism and belief is just downright ignorant - might as well denounce philosophy entirely.
To counter, I will only say - the only logical basis for atheism is that there is no purely factual basis for Christianity. Christians could say the same about atheism, but they don't need to - there's more philosophical appeal.
As for "emotional pseudo-philosophical BS, I've employed philosophy in the past particularly metaphysics (passion of mine) in the past. But "pseudo?" How? You clearly don't know much philosophy. And emotional... well, you're the only one getting emotional about this.

Now, you seem to be being shot down on a lot of threads right now, some stuff about screaming, Jimi Hendrix, or something (I'm starting to understand why). Maybe that's what's pissing you off.
BUT LISTEN. I won't insult you nihilistic philosophy, or call it crap. I will simply engage in polite debate. I suggest you do the same - don't just get frustrated. It's easy to say things like "everything you think is stupid!" That's why it was the most common form of debate in kindergarden. What are you, anyways, 16? That's definately what you sound like... it would sure explain a lot.

 

[The Poona of Peshwa]

The burden of proof is on the believer. It's on you to explain why, in polite debate if you like, your particular choice is valid unlike all the other deities and pseudo-deities in the dustbin of history.

For me the logical basis for atheism is that the universe contains approximately a hundred billion galaxies, each of which contain a hundred billion stars. The earth existed for four billion years before we came about, and our species existed for several hundred thousand miserable years before the messiah showed up, and even then his word hasn't spread to some corners of the globe.

On top of that, the way that we came to exist as a species has been known for 148 years now. How do you reconcile these facts with your faith? Does your knowledge exist on a completely different plane from your belief?

 

[waif]

You must be having a bad day or something... I thought you said this wasn't a "Christian bashing" thread?

No, it wasn't. Originally. However, it seems to have turned into one.

Anyway, obviously there's no proof of God's nonexistance

Can you disprove Russell's teapot?

As for "emotional pseudo-philosophical BS, I've employed philosophy in the past particularly metaphysics (passion of mine) in the past. But "pseudo?" How? You clearly don't know much philosophy. And emotional... well, you're the only one getting emotional about this.

I wasn't referring directly to you, but rather to everyone who uses personal feelings as an argument.

Now, you seem to be being shot down on a lot of threads right now, some stuff about screaming, Jimi Hendrix, or something

Jimi Hendrix? WTF? Where did that come from?

BUT LISTEN. I won't insult you nihilistic philosophy, or call it crap. I will simply engage in polite debate.

I think you sorta go beyond politeness when you try to drag in what's going on in other threads in here.

I suggest you do the same - don't just get frustrated. It's easy to say things like "everything you think is stupid!"

Did I get frustrated? Or did you jump all over me because you misinterpreted what I said?

What are you, anyways, 16? That's definately what you sound like... it would sure explain a lot.

"I will simply engage in polite debate"
You're being a bit of an asshole. A condescending asshole.

 

[WeAreTheLastMen]

You're being a bit of an asshole. A condescending asshole.

I don't think you can CALL ME AN ASSHOLE for suggesting that you're in high school, after YOU JUST DESCRIBED MY RELIGION AS "CRAP."
And condescending? Again, it's condescending for me to suggest that you're in high school, but not for you to describe my philosophy as "crap"? Are you serious?
(by the way, ARE you in high school? you sidestepped the question... just wondering)

No, it wasn't. Originally. However, it seems to have turned into one.

And YOU seemed to have turned it into one, more specifically. I realize I'm the minority here (among other metalheads), so if you want a place where you can just enjoy the majority's support, this is probably it. However, you encouraged religious people in your initial question... in fact, the question was specifically aimed at religious people.

Now (and please respond to this with a simple "yea or nea"): Do you, in keeping with the aforementioned remark, simply want this forum to be ruled by insults, or civilized debate (careful here)?

Can you disprove Russell's teapot?

NO!. Which is exactly the point - I explained it several times. How are you not getting this? Nobody can prove of disprove Russell's Teapot. If there is legitimate philosophy backing it(?), all we can do is debate that... that was my whole point...

I think you sorta go beyond politeness when you try to drag in what's going on in other threads in here.

I'm wondering why, after we seemed to be engaging in a fairly courteous, if charged, debate, you suddenly felt the need to abandon that for childish insults. I was wondering if you're just pissed off at the forum in general or something.

 

[waif]

I don't think you can CALL ME AN ASSHOLE for suggesting that you're in high school, after YOU JUST DESCRIBED MY RELIGION AS "CRAP."
And condescending? Again, it's condescending for me to suggest that you're in high school, but not for you to describe my philosophy as "crap"? Are you serious?
(by the way, ARE you in high school? you sidestepped the question... just wondering)

Not your philosophy, just your religion (i.e. the mythological parts). The philosophical parts are fine, the idea of a married virgin is absolutely absurd. Sorry if you misunderstood.
I'll answer the high school thing if you explain what relevance it has.

And YOU seemed to have turned it into one, more specifically. I realize I'm the minority here (among other metalheads), so if you want a place where you can just enjoy the majority's support, this is probably it. However, you encouraged religious people in your initial question... in fact, the question was specifically aimed at religious people.

Yeah, it was. I didn't want this to be a Christian bashing thread. I simply hold views that conflict with a lot of Christian mythology. I hoped that it wouldn't end up this way, but it kinda did. I think maybe we should try to get back on track, but at this point I don't see how that's possible.

Now (and please respond to this with a simple "yea or nea"): Do you, in keeping with the aforementioned remark, simply want this forum to be ruled by insults, or civilized debate (careful here)?

Wait a moment. Does yea mean insults, or debate? I'm for debate, but you kinda got a little obnoxious dragging in other stuff that isn't really relevant.

NO!. Which is exactly the point - I explained it several times. How are you not getting this? Nobody can prove of disprove Russell's Teapot. If there is legitimate philosophy backing it(?), all we can do is debate that... that was my whole point...

Ok, I think that this is actually interesting. I would say that the existence or nonexistence of god is irrelevant, because since he doesn't manifest himself in any way detectable to humans, there is no reason for him to matter to us. Sorta like if there's a gigantic fork somewhere out in Idaho. Cool, but whatever.

I'm wondering why, after we seemed to be engaging in a fairly courteous, if charged, debate, you suddenly felt the need to abandon that for childish insults. I was wondering if you're just pissed off at the forum in general or something.

No. Actually, I sorta got tired of the back and forth argument, so I just ranted for a paragraph. Been known to happen. What was the deal with that Jimi Hendrix thing? I don't even like Hendrix.

Anyhow, I would like it if we could make peace, stop using this thread as a surrogate for a back and forth debate that borders on an online shouting match, and actually have a decent discussion. So, if you wanna respond to my point up above about God and the Monolithic Fork Deity, that would be cool.

 

[The Poona of Peshwa]

According to his profile, he is in highschool, just fyi.

 

[Justin S.]

+ = shit thread