Blackspirit
there are no words left
Originally posted by Morgana
Well, I said I'm going to bring this thread up again....
Well, and you did >
P
Religions?
- Thread starter ellestar
- Start date
Well, and you did >
P
The Nomad
Where am I?
I just read the whole thread and I'm tempted to go through it and nit pick people's post (like I don't think Evolutional Darwinism isn't PROVEN true, it just hasn't been proven false yet.) but that'll have to wait a while.
Until then, I'll admit that I actually subscribe to a major "normal" religion. (prehaps I should just say mainstream). Anyway, I'm Jewish, but a Reform Jew, so not too religous. I don't keep Kosher, I rarely keep the Sabbath, and I probably won't even marry a Jewish woman (nor a Jewish man ).
I like to think that I decide what "laws" I should follow through some sort of logic, but in reality, I just do what's convenient for me (and what makes me feel good about myself) and justify it afterwards. But I keep Kosher for Passover (which is different from normal Kosher... and which starts tonight), I fast on Yom Kippur, and a couple other things.
As for whether I believe in God. Well, I'll answer that if I remember when I have more time.
Until then, I'll admit that I actually subscribe to a major "normal" religion. (prehaps I should just say mainstream). Anyway, I'm Jewish, but a Reform Jew, so not too religous. I don't keep Kosher, I rarely keep the Sabbath, and I probably won't even marry a Jewish woman (nor a Jewish man
).I like to think that I decide what "laws" I should follow through some sort of logic, but in reality, I just do what's convenient for me (and what makes me feel good about myself) and justify it afterwards. But I keep Kosher for Passover (which is different from normal Kosher... and which starts tonight), I fast on Yom Kippur, and a couple other things.
As for whether I believe in God. Well, I'll answer that if I remember when I have more time.
Fjelltussa
...
Now it's finally possible to marry i a heathen way again in Norway!!! (without being nazi, that is...)
(without being nazi, that is...)
Blackspirit
there are no words left
Originally posted by Fjelltussa
Now it's finally possible to marry i a heathen way again in Norway!!!
Yeah, I read that in the newspaper not too long
ago. At first it made me happy, but when I started
to read the article it was just stupid. All the time
they had to say "we're not satanists, nazis or
racists" as if a muslim is a racist for marrying in his
own religion!? This pisses me off majorly!
Fjelltussa
...
Yup, I know, but they kinda had to say it, cause of all the ppl who automatically connect norse beliefs with nazism and satanism. And another thing in that article (for jeg regner med at du leste den i Dagbladet?) was that they made it look like the two in the picture was going to marry, saying "Jón Július Fílippusson og Magnus Thor Magnusson kan nå endeling gifte seg...." It just sounded so silly, all of the things that were written there. But oh, the marriage formula is soooo beautiful!!
gee!! just when the smileys where getting better anyway i must say im new here and that im kinda like a Catholic a heretic catholics meaning i believe in god but also in Satan/Devil whatever u wanna call him and embrace the dark side of humanity
*alternate personality enter and kicks the other guy away*
nay i worship nature and the night since night and chaos was the first thing to existand since without night u couldnt say how beautiful nature is by day
*yet another alternate personality kick in*
ahi hay lilitu (find out what THAT means!!!!!!) pain is the onlyt master for which we serve and for this unhallowed lust is all that pains needs
*coming bakc to my senses*
i guess ol vintersorg wrote it beautifully
"
Twilit visions reflowers my shackled mood
It's time to heal, to join the unearthly's galanty show
My spirit hungers for the night's remedies
which breeds in the depths of mother nature's wide womb
Waiting for the augury, the fullmoon's appearence
Enchanting primary forces in the four elements
With the intension to unite micro and macrocosm
On a quest in diffuse areas, physicaly afar
I open the atlas to solitary spheres,
thousand maps drawn with blood.
Subconsciously descending into the context
of these archaic pergaments,
as the moon rises to release me.
Esteemed emotions.
The lunar aurora,
the spirits productive grain.
Guide me into a landscape,
astral and arcane.
I can feel the towering the mountain,
as well as the abyss-like sea.
In my veins the wildest river,
and every growing tree.
A visitor in a void with forest-capped fields
climbing the ladder of sagacity
Touched by the vast starry sky's nocturnal kiss,
the most passionate romance between lovers
Observing, obeying, obtaining the absolute,
leaving my physical host.
In the cave of dreams a courier I am,
passing visions to the body.
The lunar aurora,
the spirits productive grain.
Guide me into a landscape,
astral and arcane.
I can feel the towering the mountain,
as well as the abyss-like sea.
In my veins the wildest river,
and every growing tree.
A twilight child in twilight zones
fated to find the key
To unlock the soul from the fleshprison,
striving endlessly"
thanks for the attention
*alternate personality enter and kicks the other guy away*
nay i worship nature and the night since night and chaos was the first thing to existand since without night u couldnt say how beautiful nature is by day
*yet another alternate personality kick in*
ahi hay lilitu (find out what THAT means!!!!!!) pain is the onlyt master for which we serve and for this unhallowed lust is all that pains needs
*coming bakc to my senses*
i guess ol vintersorg wrote it beautifully
"
Twilit visions reflowers my shackled mood
It's time to heal, to join the unearthly's galanty show
My spirit hungers for the night's remedies
which breeds in the depths of mother nature's wide womb
Waiting for the augury, the fullmoon's appearence
Enchanting primary forces in the four elements
With the intension to unite micro and macrocosm
On a quest in diffuse areas, physicaly afar
I open the atlas to solitary spheres,
thousand maps drawn with blood.
Subconsciously descending into the context
of these archaic pergaments,
as the moon rises to release me.
Esteemed emotions.
The lunar aurora,
the spirits productive grain.
Guide me into a landscape,
astral and arcane.
I can feel the towering the mountain,
as well as the abyss-like sea.
In my veins the wildest river,
and every growing tree.
A visitor in a void with forest-capped fields
climbing the ladder of sagacity
Touched by the vast starry sky's nocturnal kiss,
the most passionate romance between lovers
Observing, obeying, obtaining the absolute,
leaving my physical host.
In the cave of dreams a courier I am,
passing visions to the body.
The lunar aurora,
the spirits productive grain.
Guide me into a landscape,
astral and arcane.
I can feel the towering the mountain,
as well as the abyss-like sea.
In my veins the wildest river,
and every growing tree.
A twilight child in twilight zones
fated to find the key
To unlock the soul from the fleshprison,
striving endlessly"
thanks for the attention
Allison
Member
My beliefs are Pagan and have been for the past 24 years. Because I see so much "church politics" in the various forms of "neo-Paganism" and have come to realise that these "new agers" are more pre-occupied with the ego and money than they are with the meaning of the religion, I have long ago taken the decision to actively practise my religion in solitude. I don't mix with other pagans for observance of esbats, sabbats or anything else that requires raising energy because I that's something I won't do in the conscious presence of other people. I will do anything to help and/or heal people who ask for it and I do not accept any kind of payment in return.
One can call me "eclectic" because I've studied every tradition of paganism through the years and taken from each one what suits me and constructed a "custom" tradition for myself that is always open to change as I continually study new and different aspects of Paganism. I don't do this as a hobby, it's a devotion.
My practise itself it very simple and natural. I am not a believer in putting on a cabaret to empower herbs when a very simple visualisation technique is more than sufficient.
Through my study of other religions I've learned to embrace them all because we are all just many facets of one diamond so to speak. I may not agree with some aspects of other religions but I can respect our differences.
I do not acknowledge the existence of satan and hell any more than I acknowledge the existence of the tooth fairy or Santa Claus.
One thing I despise more than anything is the ignorant misuse of heathen symbolism, something I've sadly seen far too much of. I find it very offensive.
I see myself as a caretaker of the Nature. That is what being a Pagan is about.
What else is there to say except that I love my religion and I am very happy in it. It maintains balance in my life and I take great comfort from the Nature around me.
One can call me "eclectic" because I've studied every tradition of paganism through the years and taken from each one what suits me and constructed a "custom" tradition for myself that is always open to change as I continually study new and different aspects of Paganism. I don't do this as a hobby, it's a devotion.
My practise itself it very simple and natural. I am not a believer in putting on a cabaret to empower herbs when a very simple visualisation technique is more than sufficient.
Through my study of other religions I've learned to embrace them all because we are all just many facets of one diamond so to speak. I may not agree with some aspects of other religions but I can respect our differences.
I do not acknowledge the existence of satan and hell any more than I acknowledge the existence of the tooth fairy or Santa Claus.
One thing I despise more than anything is the ignorant misuse of heathen symbolism, something I've sadly seen far too much of. I find it very offensive.
I see myself as a caretaker of the Nature. That is what being a Pagan is about.
What else is there to say except that I love my religion and I am very happy in it. It maintains balance in my life and I take great comfort from the Nature around me.
and that's the most important thing, really!!!
nice post you posted here
only one thing that IMHO is not really correct...
paganism as it began wasn't really focused in caring the nature, it's only now when it has become as the anagram for Nature caring. But in the beguinings pagans were the ones out of catholicism, and catholicism spreaded in the core of the Roman empire, brought with itself the "civilized" (and I mean in the way of urban development) culture. All pagans were thought to care about nature (some of them really did, some other just didn't) but it was mostly becuase their civilizations were "less developed" than Roman one, no pavement, no big buildings, no urbanism. I'm not saying that was wrong, just that it wasn't much option for them!
fathervic (not explaining well tonight)
Originally posted by FatherVic
and that's the most important thing, really!!!
nice post you posted here
only one thing that IMHO is not really correct...
paganism as it began wasn't really focused in caring the nature, it's only now when it has become as the anagram for Nature caring. But in the beguinings pagans were the ones out of catholicism, and catholicism spreaded in the core of the Roman empire, brought with itself the "civilized" (and I mean in the way of urban development) culture. All pagans were thought to care about nature (some of them really did, some other just didn't) but it was mostly becuase their civilizations were "less developed" than Roman one, no pavement, no big buildings, no urbanism. I'm not saying that was wrong, just that it wasn't much option for them!
fathervic (not explaining well tonight)
na, i wouldn't say so! the pagan pantheon was all about nature: the god of thunder, the god of the sun and so on! also, the roman empire allready had the "developed lifestyle" when they still believed in Jupiter, Venus, Mars and Uranus! the roman empire allready passed it's peak when they finaly adopted christianity. also, during the middle ages of fundamental christianity much wisdom about nature and it's secrets was lost and people who still knew about them where burned as witches!
Allison
Member
I should maybe have explained what exactly I mean by "caretaker of the Nature". The whole protection of the environment by conventional means has become a part of it, but the Nature encompasses the elements, the sun, sky, moon, stars, and earth and all that grows from it. To care for the animals, not only our own pets, but for the wildlife too. To respect all the Nature, use it wisely and responsibly and never misuse the power it lends to us and to honour it is what I mean, more on a spiritual level than physical acts like picking up trash and all that. To honour life in all forms. Should still pick up the trash anyway though
Ancient Pagans so depended on the Nature for their very survival so that is probably why it's a "nature-based" religion.
Christianity based itself on Paganism yet it stands to damn the very religion it is rooted on. I got to a point where I had to stop studying Christianity because the deeper I studied the more unsettling and frustrating it became and I have never been able to get a Christian priest to sit and talk with me about the many discrepancies I've found. (maybe I should have looked up Rev. Kylliäinen when I was in Finland) They avoid the question totally and do not want to offer any explanation. My conclusion is that Christianity is absolutely nothing to do with Jesus. I have a great respect for Jesus because he was a Pagan priest (from Egypt) who got misunderstood, used, abused and finally executed by people who forged him into what he was not, twisted his words and intentions and turned him into a very marketable instrument for propaganda before nailing him to a cross in the first ever public execution of a witch.
I don't mean for this to offend anyone, but in my studies this is the conclusion I have come to and until a reputable Christian priest is willing to explain to me the reasoning otherwise, this will remain my view of Christianity. The "because it's written in the bible" is not an acceptable answer to me.
Ancient Pagans so depended on the Nature for their very survival so that is probably why it's a "nature-based" religion.
Christianity based itself on Paganism yet it stands to damn the very religion it is rooted on. I got to a point where I had to stop studying Christianity because the deeper I studied the more unsettling and frustrating it became and I have never been able to get a Christian priest to sit and talk with me about the many discrepancies I've found. (maybe I should have looked up Rev. Kylliäinen when I was in Finland) They avoid the question totally and do not want to offer any explanation. My conclusion is that Christianity is absolutely nothing to do with Jesus. I have a great respect for Jesus because he was a Pagan priest (from Egypt) who got misunderstood, used, abused and finally executed by people who forged him into what he was not, twisted his words and intentions and turned him into a very marketable instrument for propaganda before nailing him to a cross in the first ever public execution of a witch.
I don't mean for this to offend anyone, but in my studies this is the conclusion I have come to and until a reputable Christian priest is willing to explain to me the reasoning otherwise, this will remain my view of Christianity. The "because it's written in the bible" is not an acceptable answer to me.
The Nomad
Where am I?
The Wanderer
Watcher of the Storm
hardly the first public execution of a witch. there is a lot of human history before jesus was crucified. sorry to disapoint. none of your view of christianity makes any sense either. Pagan from egypt? what? never heard that before. anyway.
Allison
Member
That is your opinion Wanderer and you are certainly entitled to it, whatever the source of it may be. I'd be interested to hear your view if you'd be so kind as to share it. I'm always interested to hear other angles.
my source of reference is the Nag Hammadin scrolls among many others.
I'd be interested to hear your view if you'd be so kind as to share it. I'm always interested to hear other angles.my source of reference is the Nag Hammadin scrolls among many others.
The Nomad
Where am I?
Allison, could you give me a tiny bit of background on what the Nag Hammadin scrolls are? Where they came from and "who" "wrote" them. thanks.
These?
http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/naghamm/
I can't really see why you'd believe the propaganda of the Gnostics more than the propaganda of the Christians, though...
Allison
Member
They are a set of scrolls found in Egypt in the 1940's. An account of the origin of Jesus, his life, his teachings, who Mary Magdalene was and her place with Jesus and contain hundreds of lost "gospels" that were not included in the bible because it contradicted St. Paul's idea of what the teachings of the Christian church should be. These scrolls were written by many people - apostles, scholars, scribes
There are books written that better explain and in more detail than info from the Internet but for your general information here's some websites that might give a decent background about it. I know that when you mention these scrolls priests have a tendency to scatter for some reason.
http://www.askwhy.co.uk/awmark/wg110SHJ_TheGospels.html
http://www.haverford.edu/relg/mcguire/Gnosisnet.html
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Resources/Texts/nagHam.html
because the Scrolls are an original text, the bible is just a bestseller novel. Besides, there are a lot of things I read from the scrolls that make sense and give logical answers to questions that I have. A lot of it contradicts the bible and that's why the christian church has tried to keep that these scrolls shut up - it discredits the church. oh well, round and round they go huh? :lol Same shit, different century.
There are books written that better explain and in more detail than info from the Internet but for your general information here's some websites that might give a decent background about it. I know that when you mention these scrolls priests have a tendency to scatter for some reason.
http://www.askwhy.co.uk/awmark/wg110SHJ_TheGospels.html
http://www.haverford.edu/relg/mcguire/Gnosisnet.html
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Resources/Texts/nagHam.html
because the Scrolls are an original text, the bible is just a bestseller novel. Besides, there are a lot of things I read from the scrolls that make sense and give logical answers to questions that I have. A lot of it contradicts the bible and that's why the christian church has tried to keep that these scrolls shut up - it discredits the church. oh well, round and round they go huh? :lol Same shit, different century.
Fjelltussa
...
The Bible as a whole seems rather unreliable (to put it in a nice way...) to me, because (almost) all it ever do is to contradict itself. It is put together as a whole, but it wasn't written as a whole. Therefore those scrolls seem more reliable to me...
The Nomad
Where am I?
I thought that there was plenty of secondary evidence to back up at least the basics of the bible... such as the birthplace of Jesus and a couple other things. I know that it was mostly gathered in a Christian context or something, but I give some trust to archeologists and anthropologists.
Am I safe in assuming that the scrolls used by Nile as lyric material predates what we're talking about by centuries, yes?
Am I safe in assuming that the scrolls used by Nile as lyric material predates what we're talking about by centuries, yes?
The Wanderer
Watcher of the Storm
Originally posted by Allison
That is your opinion Wanderer and you are certainly entitled to it, whatever the source of it may be.
my source of reference is the Nag Hammadin scrolls among many others.
i've heard of long lost scrolls and such before, and i haven't had a chance to read these sites yet, but i know some of them have been hoaxs and that sort of things. the bible is a collection of stories from original texts that was then canonised (yes with an agenda blah blah). it wasn't always the bible. the stories of the hebrew section dates back several thousands years before it appeared in its current form. they were oral traditions and that sort of thing for a very very long time. they juet didnt' show up.
the witch thing, well people have been killing each other for thinking different forever, and doing it publicly. if i have to i'll go find another reference to a public execution pre jesus for religious reasons.
the rest of this is interesting, though not terribly important...
my view of jesus. maybe he lived, mabye he didn't. i dont care. i wouldn't follow him anyway. i'm not a deist or a mystic either. i'm not spiritual or religious and his existence or what his teachings may or may have been are irrelevant to my life. that's about that.
