Remember what it was like before you were born...

[HoserHellspawn]

Isn't the topic of this thread something Satori said here on the forum awhile ago? Could be coincidence, I suppose, but I'm pretty sure it's been said before...

When I was young I asked my Dad what happens when we die and he said "I don't know, son, because nobody hsa ever died and come back to tell us." This made sense to me then, and it does now. It seems I was raised an agnostic (with sociable, seasonal Christian overtones)...

I suppose we came from the matter that makes up the universe and we'll remain thus as long as it exists, it some form or another. Does a conciousness survive? I dunno how it could, it seems to be a fabrication of the working human brain, which would cease to function upon death. It could always be possible, of course, and with our utter lack of knowledge about everything, noone is really informed to say otherwise, either.

Live this life to it's fullest and try your best not to have any regrets. Whatever comes will come.

 

[Lina]

Originally posted by HoserHellspawn
When I was young I asked my Dad what happens when we die and he said "I don't know, son, because nobody hsa ever died and come back to tell us." This made sense to me then, and it does now. It seems I was raised an agnostic (with sociable, seasonal Christian overtones)...

wow, your dad was cool. most parents would stumble on this one.

but that last sentence is hysterical. i know exactly what you mean. yesterday and today i took part in a catholic funeral, and i was relieved that i've got all those prayers memorized, so as not to call attention to the little hellion that i am. it was a small crowd so it would have been noticeable if i stood there silent.

 

[Orchid]

Originally posted by Oyo
Reincarnation would not be boring, I don't remember who said that but imagine where technology will be after you die, I personally want to be around when we colonize new planets and such.

Yes, I'd love to see that too, but what if you don't remember anything from your past life/lives?

If you wouldn't know whether you're the same person you were or someone else, if you had the different abilities, skills, preferences, etc.. I dunno, if I wanted to be born again I'd want to remember everything from this life, and I'd want to be me.

Let's suppose in my previous life I was a peasant working in the muddy fields of England in the 13th century and were born again in the last decades of the 20th century. I can't remember anything from my past life, and I've been raised among all these technological innovations, so I'm hardy impressed by them, 'cuz they're so mundane to me, all of us here. Thus, I don't think I'd know how to appreciate the, say, 29th century technology if I couldn't remember any previous experiences.

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Soul4Raziel
I always found it funny when people would try and prove that the soul has mass and weight, gimme a break, it saddens me that tax payers hard earned or not so hard earned or unearned dollars went into this kind of research, for shame.

Also, that stuff about the "mechanics of death", as in, what constitutes death? All the pieces are still there, so there must be a soul which gives it life. Ahem.

What a crock. Life is the consequence of the motion of all the mechanisms of the body, when they cease to function, life ends. It's like a machine which has been switched off, it's exactly the same machine, it's just not moving anymore. The thing that gives a person or thing life is action/movement.

I can't believe scientists and philosphers actually struggled with this issue, gawd, could they be any more pathetic?

Satori

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by SentencedToBurn
Dude how could you beleive that? just sit there and imagine nothing. no ground, no sky, no sight, no sound, NOTHING. you cant. thats not what happens cause there has to be a point to life. I beleive in life after death, whatever it may be. you cant just be nothing when you die ,otherwise why live?

Why NOT live?

Also, why does life have to have a point?

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Soul4Raziel
I don't understand why people fear the idea that there is nothing after death. Sure there is no pleasure, but there is no pain. The way I see the whole heaven thing is like this, even heaven would get boring, I would hate to be anywhere for an eternity.

Ditto. I welcome death, I even cherish it. For me, the thing which gives the most meaning to my life is knowing that it is finite. If I thought I was going to live forever, what incentive would I have to get out of bed each morning?

Satori

 

[General Zod]

Originally posted by Soul4Raziel
Remember what it was like before you were born, of course not, that is what it is like when you die.

I hate to rain on your parade, but this concept of yours has about as much basis in fact as any of the religions that you dismiss. It's fine if you choose to believe it, but that hardly makes it true. The simple fact of the matter is, no one knows for sure what happens when we die.

I find a certain irony in the fact, that so many of the atheists on this board seem to view the folks, who believe that there is something beyond this life, as unenlightened. If you yourselves were truly enlightened, you would realize that you're arguing about a subject that you know absolutely nothing about. That is of course, unless you're posting to this board from beyond the grave. However, that would seem to run contrary to the theories that you are proposing.

GZ

 

[Orchid]

Originally posted by General Zod
I find a certain irony in the fact, that so many of the atheists on this board seem to view the folks, who believe that there is something beyond this life, as unenlightened. If you yourselves were truly enlightened, you would realize that you're arguing about a subject that you know absolutely nothing about.

Heh, quite true. (No, I don't count myself as an atheist.)

That reminds me of the chairman of the Sceptics' of Finland RA who says the atheists are just as gullible and ridiculous in his eyes as the zealous followers of, say, Christianity. Both groups are equally stubborn and believe in their own view equally fervently (and oppose each other with the same passion). Heh, I can't but agree.

The same guy wrote a book of which title would roughly translate as "trolleyology". The basic idea of the book is that the phases of your life and personality can be predicted (read) by the heading and location of each tram train in Helsinki at the time of your birth.


Contributing some food for the thought to the original topic of discussion:

How many percent of his/her brain capacity does the average human utilize? What does the remaining (what, ~90 percent?) portion do? Surges idle?

How much stuff happens around us that we are completely unaware of? If you say "nothing", how do you explain the subconscious mind, which seems to "discharge", or rather, "empty" its contents via dreams to the short-term memory part of our brain while we sleep, only to be erased or replaced by the perceptions of the conscious mind during the day (usually during the first minutes after waking up).

(Of course some of the stuff the subconscious mind registers stays in the long-term memory, but most of it seems to just disappear, or at least move away from the conscious mind's grasp.)

 

[Satori]

Here is the reason why the atheistic people here view belief in soul/afterlife as "unenlightened": It's primarily derived from religious dogma and we think religions are full of shit. Also, common sense and plain old logic sorta dictates/suggests that we are biological organisms who evolved intelligence to enable us to pass on our genes (the driving force behind life itself). This seems painfully obvious/logical.

Personally, I feel that anyone who knows nothing about an afterlife (just like no one does) and then "believes" that he/she is going to life on after death is a little on the ridiculous side, kinda naive, hopeful, and illogical.

I feel that anyone who clings to this afterlife idea is also completely full of self-importance, the universe doesn't appear to have been fashioned for the primary purpose of evolving humans so that they could eventually be awarded "souls" by some unseen "god" thing for the purpose of these newly soul-given humans passing on into another realm of existence after death. The whole concept just smacks of mindlessness on so many levels and it seems just incredibly absurd to many of us here. It's a theory which is bursting at the seams in it own inherent complexity and seems created for the purpose of deepening the myth/belief that life goes on after death (when we have absolutely NO reason to presume that it does).

While no one knows for sure what occurs, we can speculate with our logical brains, so the idea that nothing can be said about the "afterlife" with any degree of accuracy is a little unfounded. To me, the suggestion that there is life after death is a lot like saying pluto is made of frozen jello. Of course, then comes the statement: "How do you know that pluto isn't made of frozen jello, you've never been there."

We DON'T know that it isn't, we just feel that it is such a laboured and unlikely theory it isn't worthy of consideration, and anyone who clings to this absurd notion (afterlife) out of self-importance and fear of death is quite frankly not thinking clearly/rationally. More often than not they've also fallen victim to religious dogma, which increases the magnitude of their ignorance 10-fold.

yeehaw,

Satori

 

[S4R]

Originally posted by General Zod


I hate to rain on your parade, but this concept of yours has about as much basis in fact as any of the religions that you dismiss. It's fine if you choose to believe it, but that hardly makes it true. The simple fact of the matter is, no one knows for sure what happens when we die. GZ

You are correct in that I do not know what is or is not in store for us in the end, but please refrain from stating the obvious, we all know the obvious. Not to mention, I never stated that I thought my quote had any basis in fact, so you have no parade to rain on. I simply beileve what I said.

 

[General Zod]

Originally posted by Soul4Raziel



You are correct in that I do not know what is or is not in store for us in the end, but please refrain from stating the obvious, we all know the obvious.

LOL. If that is so obvious, than why start a thread, declaring something that you addmitedly know absolutely nothing about?

GZ

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by General Zod
LOL. If that is so obvious, than why start a thread, declaring something that you addmitedly know absolutely nothing about?

For that matter, why discuss anything at all? Very few things worthy of discussion can be known with absolute certainty.

Likewise, why cling to the idea of an afterlife when
1) By all logic and common sense it is extremely unlikely and
2) We really don't know, so why believe something illogical which we know nothing about?

I think the idea here isn't about what's absolutely "right", it's about what's most logical and likely, and these things certainly seem to suggest that consciousness evolved in accordance with the physical brain and that mind is derived from electro-chemical reaction, not this archaic "soul" concept.

It's not about being correct, it's about being logical. I hope this clarifies things.

Satori

 

[MountainDweller]

At one time it was logical that the world was flat and that the universe revolved around the earth, as well.

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by MountainDweller
At one time it was logical that the world was flat and that the universe revolved around the earth, as well.

... and it would still be logical - had not not found evidence to the contrary. Therefore, your point is... ?

Satori

 

[Obyeybyeogone]

I think his point was we may find evidence to suggest an afterlife or something else exists, so we shouldn't completely decide there isn't one.

 

[S4R]

Originally posted by General Zod


LOL. If that is so obvious, than why start a thread, declaring something that you addmitedly know absolutely nothing about?

GZ

To create a discussion.

 

[Slynt]

When a person dies, the body stops functioning. A complicated process involving a heck of a lot of blood, heartbeats and oxygen-feed to the brain ends.
This ends such functions as thought, conscience, memory, hope, love, hate, the interest in metal and a lot of other things - basically everything that we can sense or perceive, or interpret somehow. Time's up, and its sad to those who are left behind. The dead person won't know anything, as the person does not exist anymore than he or she did before birth.
To me, this is so obvious I often forget other views exist; some are vivid enough to try and explain "a soul"...if I have one, I'm pretty sure it's forlorn.

Can anyone give me reason to hope there *is* something more? I would like to believe it, but it's impossible....

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Oyo
I think his point was we may find evidence to suggest an afterlife or something else exists, so we shouldn't completely decide there isn't one.

I agree, nor should we assume there is, considering as this is so unlikely that it borders on ridiculous.

Until such evidence surfaces, we must base our opinions on what is:
1) most likely
2) most logical

dispite fear of death and religious dogma which would have us believe otherwise.

hail satan,

Satori

 

[Obyeybyeogone]

Yeah, I was just explaining his point. Because at the time people said the same about the Earth rotating around the sun "considering as this is so unlikely that it borders on ridiculous."

Personally I am pretty neutral on it, it won't really matter what I think because when I die whatever happens happens.

 

[S4R]

The entire afterlife thing is just too big a pill for me to swallow.