Slate VCC will be iLok2
- Thread starter Cognition
- Start date
"don't agree with the bill entirely"? Yeah, they could censor Youtube and Dropbox if they wanted. And while Australia "only" censors child porn sites, look at what sites ended up on their list. And now take a wild guess if the new US censorship list will include only piracy sites.
And how are they gonna stop P2P filesharing? Torrent sites can be stopped because they have trackers and you need to download the torrents themselves from somewhere, DC++ et al have hubs or something along those lines. But what about a system that only uses those computers (and network connections) of the users? Such a system is not impossible, and would be very hard to block.
"It is the pirate's fault". Yeah, quite terrible how there are no good games nowadays, and no-one makes movies or music anymore because of piracy. That should be reason enough to censor everything the US government doesn't want people seeing.
Edit: Oh, and I'll probably buy the updates for Trigger and FG-X if they ship the iLoks into Finland.
Kazrog
Kazrog, Inc.
There are MANY studios still using a PPC (not only me), I don't think it's a smart move to exclude them from the potential buyers.
Sending a free Ilok is cool though.
That's definitely true. The reality for developers is that RTAS/PPC (in particular) is getting harder to support, but also PPC in general. Apple dead-ended that platform very quickly and brutally, after it being their sole platform for over a decade, leaving a lot of users angry.
The reality for producers is that it's very hard to justify the upgrade from a G5 to a Mac Pro for most studios - it's a very costly upgrade, especially for Pro Tools HD users - many of whom wouldn't reap the benefits of the upgrade in almost any tangible way, especially if they do a large portion of their processing with TDM and outboard analog gear.
I think Slate handled this the best way possible, but it still sucks to be in the midst of so many transitions simultaneously (PPC to Intel, 32 to 64 bit, iLok to iLok 2, and the constant flux of the music industry.) Piracy sucks, and I hope that PACE can continue to stay relevant and effective, since so many innovative developers such as Slate Digital depend on them. They've taken a major hit to their platform, but the fact that it took this many years for it to happen is a testament to their expertise.
The DMCA already has enough teeth to fight copyright infringement in the states, and building a firewall around our virtual borders certainly won't prevent piracy. After all, if savvy Chinese people can get around the "golden shield," anything is possible.
crillemannen
Member
Cool Steve. I bought the VCC demo, and my heart stopped for a minute BEFORE i read that you'll be sending ILOK2 out for free Great man!!!
Great man!!!
AdamWathan
Member
This is a bit silly IMO... This whole thing makes it sound like every single Slate customer would pirate the software instead if they could.
They are basically saying straight to the customers faces, "Listen, we have to update to iLok 2 because we know that most of you guys that paid for VCC would rather have just stolen it if you had the opportunity." The point of copy protection is to force would-be pirates into buying the software, so that means they believe that a large enough portion of their user base is pirates that it would put them out of business. I would expect that 50% or more of their user base would have to pirated instead of buying for them to stop churning a profit (hell it's probably a lot more than that, I bet they sold more copies of Trigger and FG-X than any other company has sold any plugin this year). So there is at least a 50% chance that Steven Slate is calling you personally a thief.
They are basically saying straight to the customers faces, "Listen, we have to update to iLok 2 because we know that most of you guys that paid for VCC would rather have just stolen it if you had the opportunity." The point of copy protection is to force would-be pirates into buying the software, so that means they believe that a large enough portion of their user base is pirates that it would put them out of business. I would expect that 50% or more of their user base would have to pirated instead of buying for them to stop churning a profit (hell it's probably a lot more than that, I bet they sold more copies of Trigger and FG-X than any other company has sold any plugin this year). So there is at least a 50% chance that Steven Slate is calling you personally a thief.
SocialNumb
Damn Christians!
darthjujuu
Member
...eh... i dunno about that, the products that slate digital puts out are totally the types of things that pirates are after... mid/high end super easy to use awesome things that are of huge value to a laptop warrior. example: drumagog and ozone are two of the most pirated plugins ever. so trigger and FG-x are definitely going to be highly sought after by kids who don't wanna pay. and even some kids who could/would be willing to pay for it will have a hard time bringing themselves to do so when they know it's just a torrent away from saving a couple hundred bucks.
...so... i'm with steve. piracy's a bummer for small companies that work hard for us.
i totally crack windows, though.
atleast i got my dad to buy reaper?
AdamWathan
Member
I'm not saying what they are doing is unfair or wrong, the way they are handling it is very fair to the customer and they aren't really causing anyone any grief unless they are a PPC user so whatever. It's just excessive and overprotective I think... Pirates are always going to be pirates, and people who like your products and want stable software they can rely on are going to be customers, any way you slice it.
It's just odd because half of it is "Hey we love our customers! We have to upgrade to iLok 2 but because you guys are awesome we're giving you all one for free!", where really at the same time they are saying, "we have to upgrade to iLok 2 because most of you guys only bought our plugins because you couldn't find them on torrent sites, you thieves."
If that wasn't true they wouldn't be updating the copy protection, because they would trust the fact that a customer is a customer, not a pirate who has given up.
It's just odd because half of it is "Hey we love our customers! We have to upgrade to iLok 2 but because you guys are awesome we're giving you all one for free!", where really at the same time they are saying, "we have to upgrade to iLok 2 because most of you guys only bought our plugins because you couldn't find them on torrent sites, you thieves."
If that wasn't true they wouldn't be updating the copy protection, because they would trust the fact that a customer is a customer, not a pirate who has given up.
jipchen
ForesterStudio
I get what you mean but I don't feel the same..
The guys using crackd Slate software wouldn't even get the mail, do they?
IMHO it's entirely valid making VCC iLok2 reliant.
There are 3 groups of software users
-Those who pay for all the software they use
-Those who use some legit and some cracked software
-Those who use only cracked software
We don't know how big that second group is, but I have read developers say on KVR they saw massive sales drops the moment their software was cracked.
There are 3 groups of software users
-Those who pay for all the software they use
-Those who use some legit and some cracked software
-Those who use only cracked software
We don't know how big that second group is, but I have read developers say on KVR they saw massive sales drops the moment their software was cracked.
darthjujuu
Member
The guys using crackd Slate software wouldn't even get the mail, do they?
haha good point, but adam is saying that steve is telling the legit purchasers that they would've pirated had they been given the opportunity.
and while i don't agree that steve is being ACCUSATORY, ... it is still true in a lot of cases. i find myself squirming with temptation when i know i could have the same product and not pay for it and totally get away with it. every closet pirate on this forum will bite their tongues and shamefully agree, right now. it's just human nature, he knows he can't be naive about it.
darthjujuu
Member
that second group is rather enormous, i presume. i'd say at the very least the vast majority on this forum. there are, of course, plenty of dudes on here 100% legit as well, but they tend to do the most talking about it since they're vindicated so you don't really notice how many people simply... don't say anything at all.
but it comes with years/experience, when i first started out i helped myself to waves mercury, just because... it was right there for the taking, why wouldn't i? and then as the years went on i weened myself off of it, replacing each crutch one by one, until... now i'm just on windows7 64bit and it doesn't even work anymore if i wanted it to... hah. but i think that's the progression for most people as they transition from screwing-around to professionals, where finally everything is completely legit, but, by that point, most people have the business income to suppliment spending that much.
JUSTIFIED? no, i'm sure tons of people will flame me saying they never pirated a single thing or masturbated ever once in their life, but.. just being a realist here and further justifying steve's need to keep his shit on lock.
darthjujuu
Member
i ALSO believe that cracking things to try them out is fine. i grabbed the lexicon PCM plugin that just came out off demonoid, after it's immense hype, totally did not like it, and uninstalled it. big time/effort/disappointment saver =]
ymmv.
ymmv.
SocialNumb
Damn Christians!
darthjujuu
Member
yar clearly, i was gonna say that there's no demo for the lexicon but turns out there totally is... whoops
theblackmoon
Casa Negra
I'm on PPC and have no intention to move to Intel... no VCC for me. Gonna have a look on Nebula.
I'm a Slatedigital product's user and supporter, I think their softwares are amazing, but on this one I believe they are wrong, they are punishing their clients, not those who steal their stuff. How long is going to take before iLok2 is cracked? Problably only a few months... they could be selling VCC to a lot of people like me that is not upgrading to Intel soon.
Anyway that's just my opinion, I understand the dificult situation their company is but I'm bothered, I was planning to buy the software... Nebula here I go.
I'm a Slatedigital product's user and supporter, I think their softwares are amazing, but on this one I believe they are wrong, they are punishing their clients, not those who steal their stuff. How long is going to take before iLok2 is cracked? Problably only a few months... they could be selling VCC to a lot of people like me that is not upgrading to Intel soon.
Anyway that's just my opinion, I understand the dificult situation their company is but I'm bothered, I was planning to buy the software... Nebula here I go.
Jind
Grrrr!!! (I'm a bear)
- Mar 7, 2009
- 2,542
- 0
- 36
I've read Stevens letter through several times trying to see where you deciphered this hidden message that were all thieves. I can't find it - is it in code? Perhaps in some cypher? I don't intend to come of harsh, but you are really getting something out of this email that I'm not.
As for the reality of pirating and the software developer - particularly the audio engineering plugin developer I think we need to take a few things into perspective before we toss about percentages which has no basis in fact - I mean really? You think he can offset a 50% piracy rate? Really?
Regardless how important it is to your, mine, or this entire boards lives, in all honesty this is a niche industry compared to others. There are no studios employing tens of thousands of employees like other industries. Let's face it - a product like VCC has a very limited customer base when compared to something like Microsoft Office which is not only an "industry standard", it's a wold wide standard for office productivity suites. I'd be really interested to know what you think, I mean really think, the number of units Slate will sell of VCC? Hell, how many folks do you think that come here daily will acctually buy it - It may get talked about it a lot, debated about here and on other audio forums, but getting down to the nitty gritty of placing cash on the counter for the product - how many units do you think he will sell in reality. Put out a number and let's see if Steven laughs.
Don't get me wrong - we have a great community here and we love what we do either as a job or a hobby, but like it or not what Steven does is develop products for a relatively small client base compared to other industries.
As another example - my wife works in the Aerospace industry - she uses software solutions by the company SAP each and every day - it's not only an industry standard solution provider - it's once again a global application/solution provider, but I don't hear them worry so much about piracy - why because piracy has the greatest effect on niche industries or things developed or made for individual use (like music and or DVDs). You don't see web sites dedicated to stealing SAP coded software solutions - if you do they probably don't get that many hits, but you do see whole communities designed to steal music and the software used by a relatively small consumer base that create it.
Yes, you do see cracked versions of Microsoft products out there, but I tend to believe the vast majority of users are legitimate users, but the units sold is so much greater than these applications developed for niche usage that the pirated versions have a greater effect on the overall solvency of the business that creates them than it has on Microsoft. Hey - I could be wrong, but I suspect plugin developers would agree with me. It's all relative to your consumer base and the units sold and like it or not, the number of users of VCC is vastly smaller than other applications - even than those that purchase DAW software. As I said earlier - to us, our small community Steven's products are important and while some of us may buy them, even in this small community, the majority will not. It's the truth - like it or not.
Remember - everything in life is relative.
I've gone on far too long and perhaps some of my examples seem of base, but I really do think that in small, what one could even refer to as "cottage" software development - piracy has a profound effect on the ability to stay in business and were past the point of telling people it's just wrong and they should stop, extreme measures need to be taken so that these developers keep making product or we might as well go back to complete analog recording where little piracy existed - face it, this is a digital age issue. Ease of access has created a whole new class of criminal, one that justifies it because it's so easy to steal. Try before you buy my ass - that's what demos are for.
Once again - sorry for going on so long, but certain things get me going and essentially blaming the developer trying to protect themselves and simply trying to stay in business rather than the thieves that caused the issue, is one of those subjects.
This was not really directly about Adam's comment as it's more about how we perceive our community and industry and it's size, but I do want you to put this issue in context - as I asked earlier - how many units do you really think Steven will sell? Then do the math and tell me what 50% piracy would do to his business. While even you mentioned this was an extreme amount, but truth be told I suspect it's more reality than fiction. I mean read all these recording communities and see all these mixes being done with Waves plugins by every Tom, Dick, and Harry - do you really think they bought them, how many Reaper users have actually paid for it or to put it more politely, how many are still trying it out (two years later). This is an industry and/or hobby is rife with "free" usage or whatever more polite term you want to use. Is it every individual - no, but I suspect it's greater than many think and or are willing to admit. But many think they are harming no one because there just a small individual.
Will I buy VCC - probably not because I only record for myself and I don't think it will make that big a difference for me than what I have. But be assured if I decide to try it out it will be an official Demo and if I like it the cash will be sent to Steven for his hard work. Ease of access has not tipped my moral compass enough to change the way I behave.
Wow - my simple question became a rant - sorry and no need to answer unless you really think I'm wrong then by all means, but I'll probably leave my comments as they are and hope they made someone/anyone (but no one in particular) think about how they impact our small community.
As an aside and to provide a little humor in my rant - how come someone and anyone are words, but noone is not - it's no one?
SocialNumb
Damn Christians!
darthjujuu
Member
AdamWathan
Member
...? It doesn't have to say anything, the fact that they need to improve their copy protection says that explicitly on it's own.
If they thought that everyone who wanted to buy their plugins was going to buy them and none of those people would pirate it instead, then they wouldn't need copy protection at all.
It's one thing to just rely on regular iLok protection, that has become a sort of standard in the audio world, everyone accepts it, cool no big deal. But to be the first company to explicitly go out of their way because the iLok isn't enough just says something about their lack of trust for the user base.
Again, the only reason to update the copy protection to iLok 2 is to prevent would-be buyers from pirating instead.
This means that if previously the iLok was working before to make that happen (before their plugin was cracked) that a large portion of the Slate user base are would-be pirates. If they weren't, then the iLok would not be necessary as people would have just bought it anyways. The fact that they are upgrading to iLok2 instead of just relying on the regular iLok is PROOF of the fact that they think they have a large number of pirates in their customer base, enough that if they pirated instead of buying, the company would go under.
CLEARLY they think there are a lot of pirates in the customer base. If they thought every customer they had was honest and would buy no matter what, they wouldn't have copy protection. It's just the message in the letter is "man we need copy protection or we are going to go out of business!". To me that says they are confident that the MAJORITY of their users are pirates at heart, and that as soon as their plugs are pirated, their customers are going to disappear. That's a rude message to send to the customer base.
How is that not obvious? It has nothing to do with specifically saying anything in any letter, it's to do with the concept of using copy protection in the first place.
Anyways, at the end of the day this is less specifically about Slate and more so my view on copy protection in general, so hopefully no one sees it as anything remotely personal because it's not. They are doing everything in a totally fair and cool way and being awesome about what they have chosen to do. I'm an SSD and Trigger owner and they are both great products that I use all of the time, the Slate dudes have been good to me.
It's just the whole "everyone is guilty until proven innocent" mentality that irks me.
