sneap micing techniques

aramism

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Dec 2, 2006
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i tried doing a search on the forum but the search wasnt working.


just like there was an entire post dedicated to the "clayman" and how Fredrik Nordström's mix setup is.



i actually emailed andy once and he told me he used a single sm57 on the grille. but that was a vague explanation and obvously he is very busy.


are there any resources, pics, interviews, clips, or anythign anyone can help me how he mics his cabs and how he gets such a huge rhytym sound. particularly on arch enemy and also nevermore i guess. but mainly arch enemy. the sound sounds so BIG!!!!!!


any help would be greatly appreciated. thank you.
 
Move it around until it sounds good.
I'm not being a smart ass either, that's what you have to do...
 
Taken from ilovemetal.com

"Try 1 Sm57 (not beta) at the centre of cone, an inch away from the grill cloth. Try this on each speaker, then compare, find your favourite speaker, then move it about an inch -if that, off centre to try and get rid of that high 10k fizz"

Taken from Andy's thread about Krank Amps

micposition9el.jpg

micposition28tu.jpg
 
Also as far as comp/eq there is Andy's C4 setting found in the stick threads, and eq, again taken from ilovemetal.com

"maybe filter 60hz down and 12 k upwards out"

"With your gtrs filter from 60/80 hz down and also from 12 k up, see if that helps."
 
jeeez lol im starting into recording, i didnt know there were so many resources and forums available online. so cool. this site, grail tone.com (for mesa), johnpetrucci.com (for my fav guitarist and techniques), gearslutz.com, sonar forums for sonar, ilovemetal.com now.... wow



so i should keep the sm57 an inch from the grille??? hmm i always thought i gotta have it right up against the grille. also i always thought that the sweet spot for a mic is between the edge and the center of the cone....

but i guess as per andy it is slightly off center from the "core" of the speaker!!!

wow so am i right in saying that? or at least thats what i interpreted from cobhc
 
I'd say keep the mic an inch from the grill if you have the oppurtunity to have the amp cranked, if you have to have the amp turned down, try it right on the grill, otherwise it might sound too distant. And yeah man, there is a shitload of awesome resources online for tips. The guys on here all know their shit, and will help out with any other questions you have, I'm sure.
 
well i have a mesa road king dual rectifier head...


it is essentially a dual rectifier with more power tube options and an extended clean channel and an additional "in-between" channel dedicated to british el34 tones.



i run it into a mesa road king slanted 4x12. the oversized one. it has a split design. the right half is closed back with 2 V30s and the open back side is loaded with 2 C90 black shadow celestions...


the c90s sound great mixed with the v30s in the room. i used to either mic one 609 or 57 on the grille like this:


l_77ea48c627073b34de76b52fb0ad6022.jpg



ok so im not picasso but you get the point...




so im guessing with that type of hi gain amp and a 4x12 cab i should probably keep it an inch back. and how loud are we talking about. i make it loud sometimes where i need earplugs. but i can record at reasonable volumes also. i always bypass the output control and the loop so i control volume on each channel. on modern mode how is volume at 10:00??? if anyone knows rectos that is pretty loud.
 
get it sounding great in the room, then move the mic until it sounds great at your monitoring position

you need it loud enogh to see the speakers excurse when you palm a chord

get your *chucka* *chucka* going, when you see em move youre there

gain down until you hear the pick attack, less gain, more takes is your friend
 
You should be able to see speakers moving - this is called speaker excursion. If you can go further and get cabinet excursion you can mess around with volumes that high as well - remember, though, isolation will make neighbors happy and earplugs will keep you hearing things long enough to tell the difference.

Jeff
 
well my setup is in a recording studio. the walls are bare. so would that be a problem??? i don't care about volume really. i have ear plugs, and putting heaphones over htat would def not bother me. its just that the sound really ping pongs around my room at high volumes. though since i'm micing on the grille it prob wont make a difference. even an inch off...


i always thought volume wasn't much of a factor.... but i guess it is if i have to make the CABINET move!!!!


jesus, that is really going to like 11!!!!!!!



the loudest ive ever taken my mesa dual rec road king is probably the equivalent of 6/10 (60%) on the total volume and boy that was really really loud.


i can't even hear myself think. i would need a sound isolated room likea live room.


is there an alternative to this??? is it THAT much of a difference if i just make it loud where its "loud" for me in the room, not where the wood on the cabinet is shaking???
 
well i have a mesa road king dual rectifier head...


it is essentially a dual rectifier with more power tube options and an extended clean channel and an additional "in-between" channel dedicated to british el34 tones.



i run it into a mesa road king slanted 4x12. the oversized one. it has a split design. the right half is closed back with 2 V30s and the open back side is loaded with 2 C90 black shadow celestions...


the c90s sound great mixed with the v30s in the room. i used to either mic one 609 or 57 on the grille like this:


l_77ea48c627073b34de76b52fb0ad6022.jpg



ok so im not picasso but you get the point...




so im guessing with that type of hi gain amp and a 4x12 cab i should probably keep it an inch back. and how loud are we talking about. i make it loud sometimes where i need earplugs. but i can record at reasonable volumes also. i always bypass the output control and the loop so i control volume on each channel. on modern mode how is volume at 10:00??? if anyone knows rectos that is pretty loud.

honestly you are making this more complicated than it is. try the mic in a few different positions and record each one and then compare, thats how everyone does it. now a starting point would be about 1 inch off the cloth right over the center of the cone. that usually works for most people. also try adding a second sm57 directed off axis. read through the clayman sound thread and there is a few pics of what im talking about. it usually works really nice. and once again volume doesnt play a huge factor but usually crank it up to a decent volume if u can otherwise just work with your gain and such if you cant have it too loud. and as far as eq and compression go read around on this forum the search function isnt always taht great you just gotta read through the threads. good luck
 
If the sound ping-pongs at high levels I'd definitely read up on 'standing waves', unfortunately I can't say anything without being too technical; also, start looking at pillows and blankets to put on walls in front of, behind, and less than a pace away from the amp.

To be honest, you don't *need* cab excursion, but it sounds fucking good and that's not at all uncommon to have on records. Google 'Slipperman's Recording Distorted Guitars From Hell', read the parts concerning volume, and think about getting a smaller cabinet that won't be quite so brutal when cranked. Cab excursion won't be as loud as you think it'll be - we're talking about shaking a bit of wood ATTACHED TO BLOODY SPEAKERS, not making a refrigerator go on a raping spree - but all the same you'll want to start insulating things before you experiment with that at all.

I'd also recommend getting another dynamic mic like an Audix i5 (which has, in my opinion, a nicer frequency response for high-gain guitar than an SM57 - the 57 starts dropping, at 5dB an octave or so, below 200Hz [between G and G# below middle C] and peaks around 5kHz, which is not a happy frequency range if you don't want to sound like bacon), so you can start playing with dual-micing techniques like the Fredman thing you'll read about in the Clayman thread and also have another tool to use when poking around for sounds. An i5 is about 90 to 100 dollars from an online or big box retailer, and it's really not hard to spend a bit of time talking to a Guitar Center audio guy (find a manager who looks bored) about that mic - I got fifteen bucks knocked off of one because the manager offered me a 'special deal' and that place is pretty lenient with that sort of thing - or eBay one. I know Andy also put up clips of a Krank going through a v30 cab and a g12t75 cab, each into a 57 and an i5, so I'll try and track that down so you can hear that difference.

Finally, I babble a lot about taking the transformer out of the SM57 to make it more suitable for metal (especially dropped) guitar - what you do is basically unscrew the thing, take out the XLR connector by playing with the screw near the plug end (that almost sounded sexual...), snip wires (hopefully that didn't...), and boil the body for about 15 minutes (that certainly doesn't...) so you can yank out the yellowish-plastic looking thing (your transformer, responsible for a lot of fucked mids and about 10db of gain) that wires used to be connected to. After that, it's just a matter of reconnecting the wires through the hole that the transformer used to be in and plugging it back in. This'll give you a more room-like sound on tape, because the cheap transformer just doesn't sound good at all, and will help you learn where the fun parts of the speakers are because you're spending less time trying to ignore shit you hate to hear around 4-6kHz and wondering where your lovely bass went.

EDIT: Speaker and microphone comparisons are at

Index of /media/speakers

Jeff
 
My best advice on miking. I have a friend out there with headphones strapped on (he's taking cues from me, I'm in the control room) moving the mic around until it sounds good. On everything (Drums, bass, cabs):kickass:
 
hmm.

@gnash - i dont have a control room but i get what you mean


@jbroll - i also use a sennheiser e609



i actually have a clip that i made after i read "that clayman sound" thread. (SoundClick MP3: LOVE HAMMER - Band page with free MP3 music downloads on SoundClick) (entitled "NEW MIC METHOD" and "NEW MIC METHOD ONLY GUITARS") there is no eq or compression. it is with a sennheiser e609 on the cone and the sm57 off the cone angled, just like the clayman thread. by the way that is me playing drums and bass and the clip was just a riff i made on the spot so its sloppy. and i dont play drum and bass well just enough to make this clip so you can tell how the guitars sound in an overall mix.


l_116db49614a86e5c83f283a79b73953b.jpg

l_1d86ce8fbfa2cc7e742d834c6341b05f.jpg

l_0ebddba757d4b81d999249b0f729716d.jpg



but my main question was not about "that clayman sound" but "that sneap/arch enemy/nevermore sound" that's all. i just thought that maybe since there was such a detailed forum thread dedicated to the details of that micing technique maybe someone knew of a resource for andy sneap's micing techniques. but i guess cobhc helped me out a lot with those pics of andy. and i guess there is nothing magical about andys micing technique as far as placement, it's just a single sm57 slighty off center an inch off the grille. i guess the magic of his gutiar sound is layering/eq/compression and everything after micing.
 
The magic of his guitar sound (put aside the fact that the guys playing the guitars are awesome players in the cases of Nevermore and Arch Enemy) is tweaking the amp and getting it to sound right. You'd be surprised to hear his raw guitar tracks (no eq, no comp), most of us just can't compete with this...