sneap micing techniques

[blackcom]

Hey guyes, maybe you could help me out?

http://home.online.no/~mastr3/samples/rectifier_v30.mp3

Boost pedal -> Mesa Rectifier -> Mesa 4x12" V30 -> SM57 -> API mic preamp.

I keep getting a guitar sound that kinda goes "IIIH" instead of "AAAH" like most records sounds like if you get my point.
Even though I read andy places usually places a 57 where the cone meets the dustcap and I actually had to find my favourite sounding speaker and point the mic pointing right
-above-(!!!) the cone one inch from the grill to not make it sound completely hizzy. If I place it even further out from the center it starts to loose it's edge. Filtered at 60hz/12k. I'd rather have a good sound with just one mic as I prefer to quad-track.

I also tried different cabs and amps like 5150 and Marshall/V30 but the results still came out with the same fizzy voicing...

Amps sounds amazing in the room, but not happy when recording. Tried different mics too, like 421, i5 etc, diden't help...

btw, what do you think of these other samples:
http://home.online.no/~mastr3/samples/rectifier_Marshallv30.mp3
http://home.online.no/~mastr3/samples/rectifier_CL.mp3


Argh, what todo?

 

[Gnash]

It's all about battling that fizz isn't it. Yeah I just move it around till I can live with it. I'm usually an inch to two inches from the center, and an inch off the grille. After you double it, you get the balls back.

 

[JBroll]

I'd like to know if you have the amp in your recording room, or in a separate area. If you have it elsewhere, find a child between the ages of eight and twelve, lure him back to your recording area with promises of candy and/or toys, give him earplugs, and stick him in the room with the mic stand. Tell him that you will be playing the guitar really loud and that his job is to move the microphone back and forth across the speaker (set the stand up so that it rotates easily, of course) very slowly, and use the fucker's two-minute attention span to figure out what sounds come from where on the speaker. After he is distracted by shiny things and decides to ignore your promises and threats to pursue them, offer a chocolate bar or two and dismiss him before he becomes a liability issue; you now know generally what's going to sound right and where the mic has to be to pick it up. Use this new knowledge to get a ballpark tone (you shouldn't be moving it more than about an inch in any direction after this) and start fiddling with knobs. Kill gain, back off gain, drop mids a bit, crank master, whatever, and find something that sounds good through the monitors. If you feel like moving the mic a bit after these, just do it and see where it gets you. You should have just spent no less than half an hour between panning the mic across the speaker and settling for a room sound (not including munchkin acquisition period) - the more time you spend, the more you'll know about a given step, so if you have a day to blow just down a few cups of coffee (I'd recommend getting a press pot, blending three parts Colombian with two parts of a dark roast from Sumatra, black and unsweetened, but that's because I'm a coffee snob) and go for it.

As far as LPF and HPF goes, you might want to lower the LPF to see where the nasties are at, and consider just notching some of that area away, and the HPF can be a meanie - it's important to not cut out the fundamental of your 'chug' strings. If you're tuned to A, your low chugs will be at 55Hz, so there goes that low note with the HPF in - you'll still lose a little thump if you're all the way up to B or C and you set the filter at 60Hz, so I'd tinker with that if downtuned to make sure that's not losing some of your bottom end - hell, I wouldn't HPF that high on any guitars tuned below C# just to be safe, and since it's not hard at all to find a ten-band EQ it's no big deal at all to tame the fundamental separately and HPF a bit lower. Properly taming the fundamental and the low mids will mean the difference between chunk and flab, so C4, EQ, or whatever you have to do to get that. Same can go with the LPF - if you feel you're losing air, play with a notch and find where the buzzies live, and drive-by that one frequency instead of bombing the whole neighborhood. It's easy to start sounding distant and losing edge if too much treble goes byebye so be careful with that.

You won't, of course, get the proper 'room' sound, unless you feel like ribboning and PZMing the fuck out of everything and its grandmother (that gets expensive, and grandmothers aren't often too appreciative of that), and in all honesty the room sound wouldn't likely sound that amazing in the mix because there's so much other stuff that wants to pop up and be heard. Also, if you're trying to nail guitar sound without bass, you're practically never going to find what you want - if the bass sounds big enough, the guitar will want punch and bite more than fighting the thing with strings twice as thick and a three-foot neck for the latter's well-marked territory, and I must admit that I often made the mistake of trying to beef up the bottom end of my guitar tracks without bothering to think of the bass, the poor poor bass. That doesn't happen anymore, and I'll hear more guitar tones on records in need of bite and edge than those in need of more bass, so be careful what you wish for before you put in the big thumpy stuff.

Last thing - if you want more 'aah', drop the gain a tad, use a bit more mids, and put on more tracks. I almost always want more mids, and I make no apologies for that. Mids on a guitar are like hips on a woman - if I wanted something that had the body of a ten-year-old boy, I'd... probably still be Catholic. Anyway, that'll give more 'body' and crunch, and less nasty fizz. The second guitar track actually sounds pretty good, if you're going for razor-wire thrash or something like Chaosphere, but I hear no bass guitar and it seems like you're trying to get too much out of individual tracks when you're used to hearing 'wider', more full-bodied combinations of several different takes.

Jeff

 

[JeffTD]

Does anyone know what amplifier Andy used with these samples?

Andy said it was 5150, not Krank.

Ok, todays lesson my friends - cabs, speakers and microphones

I've used the same gtr bit as in the tube screamer samples, on this its the 5150 and TS9 with new chip and brown mod (I'm liking that pedal alot right now)

So, if you've never had the chance to A/B cabs I think you'l find the difference quite surprising

http://www.andysneap.com/downloads/speakers

 

[Jackal_Strain]

I'd like to know if you have the amp in your recording room, or in a separate area. If you have it elsewhere, find a child between the ages of eight and twelve, lure him back to your recording area with promises of candy and/or toys, give him earplugs, and stick him in the room with the mic stand. Tell him that you will be playing the guitar really loud and that his job is to move the microphone back and forth across the speaker (set the stand up so that it rotates easily, of course) very slowly, and use the fucker's two-minute attention span to figure out what sounds come from where on the speaker. After he is distracted by shiny things and decides to ignore your promises and threats to pursue them, offer a chocolate bar or two and dismiss him before he becomes a liability issue; you now know generally what's going to sound right and where the mic has to be to pick it up. Use this new knowledge to get a ballpark tone (you shouldn't be moving it more than about an inch in any direction after this) and start fiddling with knobs. Kill gain, back off gain, drop mids a bit, crank master, whatever, and find something that sounds good through the monitors. If you feel like moving the mic a bit after these, just do it and see where it gets you. You should have just spent no less than half an hour between panning the mic across the speaker and settling for a room sound (not including munchkin acquisition period) - the more time you spend, the more you'll know about a given step, so if you have a day to blow just down a few cups of coffee (I'd recommend getting a press pot, blending three parts Colombian with two parts of a dark roast from Sumatra, black and unsweetened, but that's because I'm a coffee snob) and go for it.

As far as LPF and HPF goes, you might want to lower the LPF to see where the nasties are at, and consider just notching some of that area away, and the HPF can be a meanie - it's important to not cut out the fundamental of your 'chug' strings. If you're tuned to A, your low chugs will be at 55Hz, so there goes that low note with the HPF in - you'll still lose a little thump if you're all the way up to B or C and you set the filter at 60Hz, so I'd tinker with that if downtuned to make sure that's not losing some of your bottom end - hell, I wouldn't HPF that high on any guitars tuned below C# just to be safe, and since it's not hard at all to find a ten-band EQ it's no big deal at all to tame the fundamental separately and HPF a bit lower. Properly taming the fundamental and the low mids will mean the difference between chunk and flab, so C4, EQ, or whatever you have to do to get that. Same can go with the LPF - if you feel you're losing air, play with a notch and find where the buzzies live, and drive-by that one frequency instead of bombing the whole neighborhood. It's easy to start sounding distant and losing edge if too much treble goes byebye so be careful with that.

You won't, of course, get the proper 'room' sound, unless you feel like ribboning and PZMing the fuck out of everything and its grandmother (that gets expensive, and grandmothers aren't often too appreciative of that), and in all honesty the room sound wouldn't likely sound that amazing in the mix because there's so much other stuff that wants to pop up and be heard. Also, if you're trying to nail guitar sound without bass, you're practically never going to find what you want - if the bass sounds big enough, the guitar will want punch and bite more than fighting the thing with strings twice as thick and a three-foot neck for the latter's well-marked territory, and I must admit that I often made the mistake of trying to beef up the bottom end of my guitar tracks without bothering to think of the bass, the poor poor bass. That doesn't happen anymore, and I'll hear more guitar tones on records in need of bite and edge than those in need of more bass, so be careful what you wish for before you put in the big thumpy stuff.

Last thing - if you want more 'aah', drop the gain a tad, use a bit more mids, and put on more tracks. I almost always want more mids, and I make no apologies for that. Mids on a guitar are like hips on a woman - if I wanted something that had the body of a ten-year-old boy, I'd... probably still be Catholic. Anyway, that'll give more 'body' and crunch, and less nasty fizz. The second guitar track actually sounds pretty good, if you're going for razor-wire thrash or something like Chaosphere, but I hear no bass guitar and it seems like you're trying to get too much out of individual tracks when you're used to hearing 'wider', more full-bodied combinations of several different takes.

Jeff

Best post in along time! Educational and fun!

 

[KnifeVariable]

I've been dying to know this!!

I lovvve listening to his tirades...

I might be completely wrong, but I'm guessing Dave Sardy. Dave covered all the bands Slipperman refers to in the endless "how to..." saga.

 

[JBroll]

I thought those speaker things were from the Krank thread, but if they're 5150 I take that back. Thanks DSS3.

Jeff

 

[CJWall]

I might be completely wrong, but I'm guessing Dave Sardy. Dave covered all the bands Slipperman refers to in the endless "how to..." saga.

Nope, it looks as Dave is from the UK and plays guitar/sings. Slipperman is a New Yorker/New Jerseyian based off his acent who I believe plays drums..

 

[KnifeVariable]

AFAIK Dave is in NY, might be of english descent or whatever, but Barkmarket (his band) was started in the late 80s and was a NYC band... The problem is that Sardy is a bit of a luddite and a big studios sceptic, while Slipperman on the other hand owns a rather big studio himself... so I'm most likely wrong about the identity, yeah. It's fun playing detective though

 

[Phase]

Slipperman is Tim "Rumblefish" Gilles. Many of us knew this before he came out of the closet and kept it secret..but now he doesnt care. I also know who Mixerman is too but I dont think he wants people to know..not sure so I wont say.