no country for old wainds
Active Member
- Nov 23, 2002
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The Books/Reading Thread
- Thread starter Matt
- Start date
viewerfromnihil
Vein-Marbled Tower
Reads from the last few weeks:
Ortega is great, but this work is more interesting for his perspective in the historical sense. I may have something for my senior thesis here.
Just finished this. It's very good and an example of history as I like to view it: the intersection of art, literature, music, philosophy and their parallels to historical events. Reading it, however, did highlight my dissatisfaction with the dialectical historiography approach to history. I'd like to pick up some Laruelle before the summer is finished because of what I've heard of his similar disdain for the dialectical nature of philosophy. Perhaps Guy may have some recommendations?
Taking on Being and Time is my summer project. I've approached by the bite while reading other works in between.
Ortega is great, but this work is more interesting for his perspective in the historical sense. I may have something for my senior thesis here.
Just finished this. It's very good and an example of history as I like to view it: the intersection of art, literature, music, philosophy and their parallels to historical events. Reading it, however, did highlight my dissatisfaction with the dialectical historiography approach to history. I'd like to pick up some Laruelle before the summer is finished because of what I've heard of his similar disdain for the dialectical nature of philosophy. Perhaps Guy may have some recommendations?
Taking on Being and Time is my summer project. I've approached by the bite while reading other works in between.
crimsonfloyd
Active Member
Read the older translation by Maquarrie and Robinson. That mew translator translates both the infinitve Sein and the particpal seiend as "being", which totally covers up one of the key distinctions in Heidegger's philosophy. M & R translate Sein as Being and seiend as being, which maintains the distinction. I like the bitesize approach to the book. I had one professor who suugested the book was best read one section per day, since it's really a work that requires reflection and meditation.
Right now I'm reading Lilithe's Brood by Octavia Butler. Usually I'm not a sci-fi fan, but these books are really excellent.
Right now I'm reading Lilithe's Brood by Octavia Butler. Usually I'm not a sci-fi fan, but these books are really excellent.
viewerfromnihil
Vein-Marbled Tower
Wow, I can't believe I didn't notice that. I read the introduction of Krell's translation of it, which does note the crucial distinction between "being" and "Being," last semester, and just picked up where I left off with the Stambaugh translation without catching it. Thanks for making me aware of this.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Damn, I need to pop in here more often.
It wasn't bad. I'm not a huge Fitzgerald fan to begin with, but I would probably recommend it over The Great Gatsby (if only because everyone already knows that fucking book).
Roadside Picnic is fucking weird man.
Have you looked at all into Stanislaw Lem's works? He's probably one of Russia's most famous SF authors. You might look into Solaris and His Master's Voice.
Double truth.
Good call on the M & R translation; that's the one I own as well, which still sits woefully unread on my bookshelf (I'm content with the Basic Writings collection).
Octavia Butler is fantastic; Dawn is a fun novel to teach students, there's lots to talk about.
In other news, I've finished Manhattan Transfer. It's a sub-par Joycean attempt at American literature (Dos Passos admitted that Ulysses inspired his style). The tone of the novel is fittingly urban and wretched, but lacks Joyce's grace. Moving along to Walker Percy now:
In terms of criticism, this collection arrived in the mail the other day and is proving to be one of the most stimulating theoretical volumes I've perused in some time. Several authors whom I like provide essays (Cary Wolfe, Katherine Hayles, Niklas Luhmann, Brian Massumi), and the subject is fascinating (i.e. systems theory and postmodernism).
Observing Complexity, eds. William Rasch and Cary Wolfe:
It wasn't bad. I'm not a huge Fitzgerald fan to begin with, but I would probably recommend it over The Great Gatsby (if only because everyone already knows that fucking book).
Roadside Picnic is fucking weird man.
Have you looked at all into Stanislaw Lem's works? He's probably one of Russia's most famous SF authors. You might look into Solaris and His Master's Voice.
Double truth.
Good call on the M & R translation; that's the one I own as well, which still sits woefully unread on my bookshelf (I'm content with the Basic Writings collection).
Octavia Butler is fantastic; Dawn is a fun novel to teach students, there's lots to talk about.
In other news, I've finished Manhattan Transfer. It's a sub-par Joycean attempt at American literature (Dos Passos admitted that Ulysses inspired his style). The tone of the novel is fittingly urban and wretched, but lacks Joyce's grace. Moving along to Walker Percy now:
In terms of criticism, this collection arrived in the mail the other day and is proving to be one of the most stimulating theoretical volumes I've perused in some time. Several authors whom I like provide essays (Cary Wolfe, Katherine Hayles, Niklas Luhmann, Brian Massumi), and the subject is fascinating (i.e. systems theory and postmodernism).
Observing Complexity, eds. William Rasch and Cary Wolfe:
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
Which of their books should i check out? I've never really read any fantasy literature before. Their books would be a good place to start?
Will do man, thanks! Which of his books should i check out?
Also, which of Fyodor Dostoyevsky's novels should i try reading first? Is Crime and Punishment a good place to start?
Currently going through Jason Aarons Scalped again. One of the best Vertigo series by far. This is almost up there with Frank Millers Daredevil for my favorite comic book series of all time.
edit: i take that back, it had been years since i read this. Solid read, but nowhere near Millers DD.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Erikson probably more so... Bakker's series is really strange, but it happens to be my favorite epic fantasy series. If you can get past the stylized prose and philosophical disposition, there are some really awesome moments; and the story is absolutely insane (in a good way). I can't speak to Erikson as much, as I'm not as much of a fan; but I wouldn't say his stuff is bad...
For Erikson, start with Gardens of the Moon; Bakker, The Prince of Nothing.
I misspoke, he's actually Polish/Ukrainian; but that said, I would still recommend his work, as he's probably one of the most popular non-Western SF author in the United States. I would start with either of the novels I mentioned: Solaris or His Master's Voice.
Coincidentally, the reason I thought he was Russian is that a Russian film director (Andrei Tarkovsky) made an excellent film adaption of Solaris.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
Nice. Thanks for the guidance man. I'll jump on one of those books you mentioned after i finish up with LOTR and ASOIAF. Is The Sword of Shannara any good?
Quick question. I've never read No Country For Old Men, and it's one of my all time favorite movies. Is it worth checking out? Haven't read any of his(McCarthy) other books either.
I've also been looking into some books about the Roman Empire, and i got a lot of recs for Adrian Goldsworthys books. I'm thinking about going for Caesar: Life of a Colossus and In the Name of Rome.
Quick question. I've never read No Country For Old Men, and it's one of my all time favorite movies. Is it worth checking out? Haven't read any of his(McCarthy) other books either.
I've also been looking into some books about the Roman Empire, and i got a lot of recs for Adrian Goldsworthys books. I'm thinking about going for Caesar: Life of a Colossus and In the Name of Rome.
MasterOLightning
Optimator
unknown
fuck ftagn
Cormac McCarthy is one of my favorite authors. Coen Brothers did a pretty damn faithful adaptation of the novel. The film is almost verbatim what happens in the book, barring missing one sheriff from the book and details on how Moss dies. If you liked No Country For Old Men, I highly recommend you read Blood Meridian. It's considered McCarthy's greatest work, and one of the greatest American novels ever written. It centers around a group of cowboys who are hired to hunt down and kill (brutally) Native Americans. One of the central figures. The Judge, is one of the great characters of literature. His philosophies on war and mankind are very interesting.
No Country For Old Men, the book, is definitely worth checking out. It's a good introduction to McCarthy, as his prose can be a bit dense and hard to get into. Blood Meridian is no exception. I'd read No Country and then move onto Blood Meridian. And if you're at all interested in necrophilia and backwoods hillbillies, check out Child of God. All The Pretty Horses is also a good introduction to McCarthy. It's about a couple of young cowboys in mid 20th century Texas who don't like how the world is turning out, so they head South into Mexico in search of life. What they find, instead, is madness, love, hate, and some damn good horses. Some of the language (and this is true throughout all of McCarthy's novels) is absolutely beautiful. Here's one of my favorite bits from All The Pretty Horses:
"They heard somewhere in that tenantless night a bell that tolled and ceased where no bell was and they rode out on the round dais of the earth which alone was dark and no light to it and which carried their figures and bore them up into the swarming stars so that they rode not under but among them and they rode at once jaunty and circumspect, like thieves newly loosed in that dark electric, like young thieves in a glowing orchard, loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing"
The genre McCarthy typically writes in is referred to as Southern Gothic. If you're interested in him, you could check out William Faulkner and Flannery O'Connor.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Never read the Shannara books.
As far as McCarthy goes, he's considered one of the best contemporary novelists - definitely worth checking out. In addition to Mike's comments, most of which I agree with, I'll say the following:
Blood Meridian is one of the best American novels of last half-century, and (in my opinion) of all time. It's up there with Moby-Dick and Absalom, Absalom! It's a horrifying glimpse of expansionist brutality before the Civil War, and it's wonderfully written.
No Country For Old Men is more accessible than Blood Meridian; but I'm almost inclined to say that, if you've already seen the film, then reading the book isn't worth it. As Mike said, the adaptation is pretty faithful, and even superior in some ways. The only thing the film omitted that I wish it hadn't is a lengthier version of the coin speech Chigurh gives to the gas station attendant.
It's also really cool to read/watch the conclusion of No Country and then dive into McCarthy's next novel, The Road; they're very explicitly connected.
Yes, I did. It was a total "Aha!" moment.
Dak
mentat
unknown
fuck ftagn
One does not read McCarthy (or Faulkner for that matter) if they're interested in punctuation or quotation marks. Absalom, Absalom! has a four page sentence
Einherjar86
Active Member
It's funny that Dak looks at the writing of one of the twentieth century's most widely-recognized stylists of English prose and his first instinct is to criticize the syntax.
McCarthy has read more literature, fiction and nonfiction, prose and poetry, than many of us will ever read in our lifetimes. He's earned the right to compose experimental, challenging prose. And furthermore, he isn't writing an academic paper, he's writing to try and offend our sensibilities.
EDIT: for the record, this is on the second page of Robinson Crusoe:
"He bid me observe it, and I should always find that the calamities of life were shared among the upper and lower part of mankind, but that the middle station had the fewest disasters, and was not exposed to so many vicissitudes as the higher or lower part of mankind; nay, they were not subjected to so many distempers and uneasinesses, either of body or mind, as those were who, by vicious living, luxury, and extravagances on the one hand, or by hard labour, want of necessaries, and mean or insufficient diet on the other hand, bring distemper upon themselves by the natural consequences of their way of living; that the middle station of life was calculated for all kind of virtue and all kind of enjoyments; that peace and plenty were the handmaids of a middle fortune; that temperance, moderation, quietness, health, society, all agreeable diversions, and all desirable pleasures, were the blessings attending the middle station of life; that this way men went silently and smoothly through the world, and comfortably out of it, not embarrassed with the labours of the hands or of the head, not sold to a life of slavery for daily bread, nor harassed with perplexed circumstances, which rob the soul of peace and the body of rest, nor enraged with the passion of envy, or the secret burning lust of ambition for great things; but, in easy circumstances, sliding gently through the world, and sensibly tasting the sweets of living, without the bitter; feeling that they are happy, and learning by every day’s experience to know it more sensibly."
That's one sentence.
McCarthy has read more literature, fiction and nonfiction, prose and poetry, than many of us will ever read in our lifetimes. He's earned the right to compose experimental, challenging prose. And furthermore, he isn't writing an academic paper, he's writing to try and offend our sensibilities.
EDIT: for the record, this is on the second page of Robinson Crusoe:
"He bid me observe it, and I should always find that the calamities of life were shared among the upper and lower part of mankind, but that the middle station had the fewest disasters, and was not exposed to so many vicissitudes as the higher or lower part of mankind; nay, they were not subjected to so many distempers and uneasinesses, either of body or mind, as those were who, by vicious living, luxury, and extravagances on the one hand, or by hard labour, want of necessaries, and mean or insufficient diet on the other hand, bring distemper upon themselves by the natural consequences of their way of living; that the middle station of life was calculated for all kind of virtue and all kind of enjoyments; that peace and plenty were the handmaids of a middle fortune; that temperance, moderation, quietness, health, society, all agreeable diversions, and all desirable pleasures, were the blessings attending the middle station of life; that this way men went silently and smoothly through the world, and comfortably out of it, not embarrassed with the labours of the hands or of the head, not sold to a life of slavery for daily bread, nor harassed with perplexed circumstances, which rob the soul of peace and the body of rest, nor enraged with the passion of envy, or the secret burning lust of ambition for great things; but, in easy circumstances, sliding gently through the world, and sensibly tasting the sweets of living, without the bitter; feeling that they are happy, and learning by every day’s experience to know it more sensibly."
That's one sentence.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
fucking sold. I'll probably read NCFOM and The Road first and then jump into The Border Trilogy and Blood Meridian afterwords.
That gas-station speech part is actually better in the books? Whhaaaat, that's one of my favorite scenes from the film.
That gas-station speech part is actually better in the books? Whhaaaat, that's one of my favorite scenes from the film.
Einherjar86
Active Member
In the book he talks about the coin being a thing having its own agency, if I recall correctly. It's pretty awesome.
Dak
mentat
Miley Cyrus is widely recognized. Ergo, her music is beyond criticism.
While that quote from RC is no dandy, it does benefit from the use of the semi-colon. Returning to the original quote:
This is golden prose, but it fell apart in the describing of the riding out.
While that quote from RC is no dandy, it does benefit from the use of the semi-colon. Returning to the original quote:
This is golden prose, but it fell apart in the describing of the riding out.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I won't condescend to respond to the Miley Cyrus comment. There's a difference between the amount of downloaded songs and iTunes and the amount of respect a writer garners in the literary community. I won't waste time saying anymore.
McCarthy despises semicolons, and for fair reason: semicolons clutter the page and make the reading process easier. McCarthy doesn't care about making your reading process easier. He isn't interested in conforming to compositional rules that we dictate in the classroom so as to make your experience more enjoyable. His prose is torture in many ways, and he wants you to work to read it. He doesn't use quotation marks, rarely uses apostrophes, and prefers to use the word "and" over and over again in lengthy sentence structures.
Calling it poor writing speaks less to McCarthy's abilities (which exceed yours and mine) than it does to your inexperience with his work. It's like drinking really fine wine; at first it offends the palate, but with time and effort it grows endurable, and eventually enjoyable.
unknown
fuck ftagn
not to mention his antiquated vocabulary. Some of the words he uses are real head scratchers.
