Master_Yoda77
Juggalo
I just graduated. I got a fucking Masters degree.
The "Education" Thread
- Thread starter viewerfromnihil
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fuck ftagn
unknown
fuck ftagn
Baroque
Active Member
Master_Yoda77
Juggalo
Dak
mentat
Dak
mentat
http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/05/19/teachers-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/
Super longass read on the value of teachers or maybe the lack thereof. Any thoughts from teachers who have the time to actually digest this?
Super longass read on the value of teachers or maybe the lack thereof. Any thoughts from teachers who have the time to actually digest this?
Master_Yoda77
Juggalo
Here is me shaking the hand of the president of my university. I was clearly not impressed with the fucking situation.
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Einherjar86
Active Member
Ugh, I do not have the time right now. After reading the first few paragraphs, it's also dreadfully droll, haha. But I'll probably try and read it later this week.
In the meantime, I learned recently that I'll be presenting a paper at the MLA conference in Philadelphia in January. This is the Mecca of all literary conferences, the major one that people from all over come to attend. It's huge, and it's the final conference that I was shooting for. Here's hoping that next time around I can get a panel proposal accepted...
But for now, I'm on another person's panel, "Science Fiction's Countercultures."
PrincessHades
Active Member
- Apr 11, 2015
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Fuck the "education" we receive from the education system or private school. It's sole purpose is to indoctrinate innocent people into the machinery of society. A preschool teaches kids the basic moral laws of society, grade school prepares kids for college, and college prepares kids to become slaves to capitalism. It's really bullshit. I don't want to spend a quarter of my life tied up being taught how to become a slave, then spend the rest of it either being a slave or a rich person. If I were a slave, well, I would be poor and life would suck. If I were rich, I would first off have to spend and extra four years in education, and I would still die. Rich people don't actually get anything. They just get tied up in business shit. I would like to be emperor of the whole world though, I would just be able to listen to metal, eat barbecue, and sit back and relax while watching the carnage. But that's not really what other think I want to do for the rest of my life. It would get monotonous after a while.
I believe people should be homeschool. They should learn valuable life skills. Not have to do algebra or do a science experiment. They should learn how to speak properly. Intelligence is passed on genetically, and knowledge is passed down like a family heirloom. Also, people learn in day to day life. The problem is, we have people who are stupid. Why not just let nature take its course? Then everyone would be smart.
I believe people should be homeschool. They should learn valuable life skills. Not have to do algebra or do a science experiment. They should learn how to speak properly. Intelligence is passed on genetically, and knowledge is passed down like a family heirloom. Also, people learn in day to day life. The problem is, we have people who are stupid. Why not just let nature take its course? Then everyone would be smart.
Dak
mentat
A preschool destroys natural learning interest and methods, grade school teaches kids mostly useless shit, and college either gets kids ready for a job or for a disappointing life of not doing what they went to school for + debt.
I am pro-homeschooling/"unschooling" for children. I am pro learning actual skills. BTW knowing algebra and and how to formulate hypotheses and conduct experiments are also actual skills.
I am pro-homeschooling/"unschooling" for children. I am pro learning actual skills. BTW knowing algebra and and how to formulate hypotheses and conduct experiments are also actual skills.
HamburgerBoy
Active Member
- Sep 16, 2007
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I didn't go to preschool, only one of my brothers ever did, but from what I remember him telling me and from what he'd bring home, it was a lot of coloring and reading and socialization. What makes you say it destroys natural learning interests?
I'm pro-homeschooling at least knowing the academic results it had in our family. Aside from math (which probably hurt more than it helped), my parents didn't teach me anything, it was basically "Here are the year's textbooks, learn this shit or you're banned from the computer", and all of us scored 99th percentile for our (admittedly poor) local school district in standardized exams. I think socialization is important and that most of my brothers and I will die as single autists, but I also think rote memorization, over-emphasis on group work, and strict educational guidelines prevent students from thinking independently. There's no need to think when you can always ask the kid next to you, "Hey what's the answer to #4?" I mean, if you have kids out in rural Africa learning to hack tablets with zero guidance, there's no reason a child can't teach themselves anything offered during a normal K-12 track, unless they're intellectually impaired.
The most important thing is having parents that actually give a shit about their children's education though.
I'm pro-homeschooling at least knowing the academic results it had in our family. Aside from math (which probably hurt more than it helped), my parents didn't teach me anything, it was basically "Here are the year's textbooks, learn this shit or you're banned from the computer", and all of us scored 99th percentile for our (admittedly poor) local school district in standardized exams. I think socialization is important and that most of my brothers and I will die as single autists, but I also think rote memorization, over-emphasis on group work, and strict educational guidelines prevent students from thinking independently. There's no need to think when you can always ask the kid next to you, "Hey what's the answer to #4?" I mean, if you have kids out in rural Africa learning to hack tablets with zero guidance, there's no reason a child can't teach themselves anything offered during a normal K-12 track, unless they're intellectually impaired.
The most important thing is having parents that actually give a shit about their children's education though.
Dak
mentat
From what I've read, preschool at this point isn't quite as benign as it used to be.
My math training was also subpar, but math is the only non-reading dependent subject (outside of typical biology/science), and my mom wasn't strong there, and I'm not overly interested in it. Otherwise, I was always 90-95+% percentile on stuff on end of the year tests (CATs didn't have "99th". I was "12+" in most if not all tested categories/subjects other than math/science in terms of "grade level" from the time I was 10-13 on). The fact that I was still 70-80th in math/science with next to no science training and minimal math says a lot about either me, standard schooling, or both.
Funny side story: We always did the end of year tests as a group, so the homeschool moms acted as 3rd party proctors/spread the load. I normally completed the tests first, and often by a long shot, in everything but math tests (and I always doublechecked my answers even). My motivation was it gave me time to read whatever book(s) I was reading at the time. This, of course, usually irritated some other mom(s), who for the rest of the tests they proctored would give a "this isn't a race, finishing first usually means you didn't do a good job, blah blah" speech. Sorry you're insecure 'bout your kid ma'am.
Yup. Of course, if the parents give a damn, then there is a genetic component in the kid giving a damn. If the kid doesn't give a damn, little any teacher can do (which my link suggests).
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Jobs I have can't support myself, then don't know what to do with the money. If you buy a pair of jeans and a pizza, then you have money, If you don't buy anything you don't have any money anyways. 
Dak
mentat
Jobs I have can't support myself, then don't know what to do with the money. If you buy a pair of jeans and a pizza, then you have money, If you don't buy anything you don't have any money anyways.
If you have a job you just sort of show up for, you probably can't be self sufficient with it. Unmotivated people either died or got behind a plow in past centuries. Now they are given a token sum, but this is going to run out. In the mean time, robots and AI are coming for all our base. Better get motivated.
unknown
fuck ftagn
I would be okay with "unschooling" if it weren't for the fact that every interview I've seen with an unschooled family shows the kids as absolute idiots who don't know how to function in the real world. Most of the parents I've seen who do it are super ultra hippy types who want to protect their precious snowflake children
Homeschool, on the other hand, I'm totally on board with. It acknowledges the individuality of the student and lets them learn at their own pace. LAUSD, for example, is so huge and things move so glacially only when favored by the almighty teacher's union and in conjunction with bullshit curriculum companies like Open Court or Pearson. Education is a business. And business is a boomin
Homeschool, on the other hand, I'm totally on board with. It acknowledges the individuality of the student and lets them learn at their own pace. LAUSD, for example, is so huge and things move so glacially only when favored by the almighty teacher's union and in conjunction with bullshit curriculum companies like Open Court or Pearson. Education is a business. And business is a boomin
Dak
mentat
I agree 100%. I put unschooling in scarequotes for a reason. Kids have different paths of learning/interests/levels of interest. On the other hand, there is a point where you have to apply a firm hand of guidance. I was pretty "unschooled" compared to some/many homeschoolers though.
My kids are great challenges in this regard. My daughter is 4 and is already tackling the same phonics book I had as a kid, but 3 years ahead of my interest (I was a late educational bloomer, mom had a to force me anyway - I would have rather played with legos), and on her own volition once I introduced it to her. But she's not all too interested in math. Contra my 6yro son, who isn't interested in reading at all, but likes math and video games. I'm giving him a little free rein atm along with some chiding. Unfortunately he is shortly going to have to be forced into at least some bare minimum level of reading engagement in advance of his interest due to state pressure.
Edit: My disdain for structured/public/private gradeschool though doesn't carry over very much into university. I do think university would be better with an older format/more "independent study", but that's simply not currently economically feasible. I think the sort of education a mostly mental adult can deal with is different than a child/adolescent.
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crimsonfloyd
Active Member
There are pros and cons to homeschooling. I was homeschooled for grades 2-4 and half of grade 6. Pros were that I was able to explore whatever interested me (read an entire college World History book in 4th grade). However, there are some major social downsides. I didn't get nearly enough social interaction with a variety of peers, as I did prior to homeschooling, which caused me to introvert. I also don't think it was healthy to have all my authority figures consoldated into a single person.
As for the whole "education is just a feeder system for the captialist system" argument, there's certainly truth to that, but I would argue that it is very difficult to change a system you don't understand. "Fuck the system" isn't enough. To change the system, you have to be able to function within the system. That's the difference between reactionary resistance and transformational resistance. This is actually gonna be the theme of the first unit my grade level teaches our 10th graders next year
As for the whole "education is just a feeder system for the captialist system" argument, there's certainly truth to that, but I would argue that it is very difficult to change a system you don't understand. "Fuck the system" isn't enough. To change the system, you have to be able to function within the system. That's the difference between reactionary resistance and transformational resistance. This is actually gonna be the theme of the first unit my grade level teaches our 10th graders next year
Einherjar86
Active Member
Evaluating education as a product is a woefully problematic process, and this is an admirably unimposing and humble attempt to do so. Unfortunately I don't have any substantive response to it because it looks less about education and more about statistics involving test scores. When it comes to statistics, I won't pretend to have plausible analyses of the data. The numbers are there, but that doesn't mean they offer a straightforward reading.
The only thing that I see in this article as potentially misguided is the suggestion that test scores from the end of a particular year are any kind of accurate measure of the quality of a teacher's performance. If anything, I think that you would need to analyze the test scores from the same teacher's class over a period of three to five years, with five being preferable. Then, if any argument is to be made regarding the performances of those students in the workplace, their performances would need to be correlated to the scores tracked over the five-year period, not simply compared to the average score.
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