The "Education" Thread

[PrincessHades]

I think that preschool and daycare are complete and utter bullshit.

Daycare is where young children go to get "patented" and "socialized" because their parents are too busy doing their meaningless jobs that probably contribute to problems. During these daycare sessions, anything can happen. For one, daycare centers get shot and bombed because of the shock value in a terrorist doing that. This kind of makes it a dangerous place for parents to leave their "precious little pumpkin". It's kind of like putting targets on your kids foreheads. Also, the "socialization" part is bullshit. Basically, the kids get in fights, argue, and an adult with little actual knowledge on anything tries to settle it. I have a vivid memory of my early childhood, and this is what happens when you bring toddlers together. Then, you are subjecting your kids to who knows what deadly diseases might be lurking in there. Here is a thought: No daycare, no cleaning up little kid puke from the bathroom floor.

Now, we have the preschool. The preschool is a better alternative to daycare, because some actual learning does take place, but it still has the arguing and diseases. I remember preschool. It scared me for life. The first day, I cried because I hated being around those little kids. I always got in trouble too. Getting notes written home was a weekly ordeal for me. Kindergarten was even worse, I killed two toads. I think I killed more, but I'm only sure of two. I remember walking around the playground secretly stabbing toads with a stick. Some little kid caught me and told. I got in big trouble.

 

[rms]

I think I've seen studies that argue kids going to pre school have better academic careers (don't want to argue on what being an academic should entail for a kid). But I bet that is also 'high(er)' because of parent involvement and affluency.

 

[RedStorm]

I don't even remember being that little yet alone my schooling. Ive been half assing my entire school career and bombed tenth grade. almost failed world history but got a 70 before the end of the year. It fucking sucks because i actually love history, i just hate the school. its a secular private school run by a single family that doesn't know how to run a school and my faggot autist parents are sending me back to it because they don't actually know that the head master is an ass hat who's only goal is to deceive people into paying their bullshit 20,000 tuition and signing a contract to stay for years and not be able to get out of it.

 

[Master_Yoda77]

I mean, it's pretty much established that primary education is fundamental to the growth of an individual.

 

[Caecius]

When I went to school the grading scale was different.

100-93 A
92-85 B
84-75 C
74-68 D
67-0 F

Bunch of slackers now.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

At least for K-6 we didn't even really have letter grades or 100-point scales, but I went to a pussy suburban Californian school.

 

[Einherjar86]

My biggest issue with homeschooling doesn't have to do with the quality of education or anything like that (although I believe that most parents who choose to home-school their children are often unqualified to do so - Dak, you're an exception, don't worry ). It has to do with the burden placed on parents. If a child lives in a household where both parents work, then her homeschooling is going to be significantly reduced (either an hour or two at night, or weekends). I don't think parents should have to choose between work and educating their kids.

As far as institutional education goes, it has serious problems; but it also has serious benefits. It needs an overhaul but foregoing that, I'd rather have the system as it stands than a disorganized reliance on homeschooling.

Kindergarten was even worse, I killed two toads. I think I killed more, but I'm only sure of two. I remember walking around the playground secretly stabbing toads with a stick. Some little kid caught me and told. I got in big trouble.

Hate to break it to you, but this doesn't sound like the fault of education.

 

[Dak]

My biggest issue with homeschooling doesn't have to do with the quality of education or anything like that (although I believe that most parents who choose to home-school their children are often unqualified to do so - Dak, you're an exception, don't worry ).

I haven't seen any significant difference between the general population and any elementary/middle school teacher I ever met. I don't know if I've met any high school teachers so I can't say anything about that. It's clear that most people aren't qualified to teach post-secondary level information, at least outside of their area of major maybe. OTOH, there are a lot of online resources these days for educating at nearly any level. Khan Academy is obviously the sexy one, but it isn't the only one.

It has to do with the burden placed on parents. If a child lives in a household where both parents work, then her homeschooling is going to be significantly reduced (either an hour or two at night, or weekends). I don't think parents should have to choose between work and educating their kids.

To get technical, parents will always have to make that choice. But when speaking of burdens, are you talking about an economic burden or something else?

 

[Einherjar86]

Primarily economic.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

I haven't seen any significant difference between the general population and any elementary/middle school teacher I ever met. I don't know if I've met any high school teachers so I can't say anything about that. It's clear that most people aren't qualified to teach post-secondary level information, at least outside of their area of major maybe. OTOH, there are a lot of online resources these days for educating at nearly any level.

I don't know where you live and what the education system is like there, but having been in many public school classrooms in CA (6-12), this is statement is totally off the mark. While there are certainly flawed teachers, lack of content knowledge is rarely the issue.

 

[Dak]

Primarily economic.

If the labor pool suddenly shrunk by half, this wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue (ceteris paribus, of course).

I don't know where you live and what the education system is like there, but having been in many public school classrooms in CA (6-12), this is statement is totally off the mark. While there are certainly flawed teachers, lack of content knowledge is rarely the issue.

I'm not saying primary level educators are ignorant, merely that anecdotally they appear no more or less competent in general, than the general population. That's not really a knock so much as just a response to the "but parents aren't qualified!" concern. There's little to no evidence that a teaching degree or certificate provides any advantage to potential students when compared to involved parents.

 

[rms]

most teaching degrees (licensures) require student teaching..which would give the teacher likely more experience with a diverse group of students then a parent ever would have. Isn't that alone good enough?

 

[Dak]

most teaching degrees (licensures) require student teaching..which would give the teacher likely more experience with a diverse group of students then a parent ever would have. Isn't that alone good enough?

Why do parents need experience teaching a group more diverse than however much diversity is present in their children?

 

[rms]

a student teacher would have developed techniques and tendencies to try and adapt to each student and those techniques would get more refined year by year? a parent would just be fucking around and trying to figure out how to best teach their son/daughter?

 

[Dak]

Nice frame bro. How about this frame:

Quality one on one or one on two time between a parent and a child, with shared genetics and environment, with the most invested adult in the child's life tailoring a custom learning plan vs a random stranger trying to pass a class of 20-30+ random kids on to the next grade, utilizing a mostly cookiecutter approach because there is neither the time, resources, bureaucracy, nor in many cases interest in doing more.

 

[rms]

the dis interested and non caring teacher versus the most caring and loving parent

how fun

 

[crimsonfloyd]

I'm not saying primary level educators are ignorant, merely that anecdotally they appear no more or less competent in general, than the general population. That's not really a knock so much as just a response to the "but parents aren't qualified!" concern. There's little to no evidence that a teaching degree or certificate provides any advantage to potential students when compared to involved parents.

So someone who was never trained in doing an extremely difficult task is gonna be as good as someone who has been trained to do said difficult task. Makes a ton of sense. And your anecdotal evdience is what? That your son won't read and just wants to play videogames? Sounds like you're doing a great job.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Student success in public school is strongly related to parental involvement anyways, so I think it's hard to say exactly how much of a child's education is actually the teacher's doing. Teaching a child is not inherently an "extremely difficult task" anyways unless there's something wrong with the child. For most of history, education was performed either by family or other elders. That would involve the learning of a trade more than literacy, but since the invention of the printing press and all that good stuff, it obviously isn't hard to find the materials required to provide a child a contemporary education. The material covered in a K-12 program shouldn't be challenging for a parent of average intelligence aside from maybe more advanced mathematics (which won't be covered at your average public school anyways, again making things moot).

 

[Dak]

So someone who was never trained in doing an extremely difficult task is gonna be as good as someone who has been trained to do said difficult task. Makes a ton of sense.

Student success in public school is strongly related to parental involvement anyways, so I think it's hard to say exactly how much of a child's education is actually the teacher's doing. Teaching a child is not inherently an "extremely difficult task" anyways unless there's something wrong with the child. For most of history, education was performed either by family or other elders. That would involve the learning of a trade more than literacy, but since the invention of the printing press and all that good stuff, it obviously isn't hard to find the materials required to provide a child a contemporary education. The material covered in a K-12 program shouldn't be challenging for a parent of average intelligence aside from maybe more advanced mathematics (which won't be covered at your average public school anyways, again making things moot).

Pretty much covers it.

And your anecdotal evdience is what? That your son won't read and just wants to play videogames? Sounds like you're doing a great job.

And my younger daughter is already working on reading more than what we've prompted. Everyone has different developmental paths/timing. I was a late bloomer in regards to interest in learning. Boys usually are more interested in more kinetic/engaged learning than sitting still, especially at earlier ages). Hasn't held me back. But your response is case in point of that cookie-cutter mentality I was referring to.

 

[RedStorm]

For most of my school career I have been an absolute failure due to me not doing any work because Im fucking lazy. The problem isn't the school, the teacher or parents, its me the fucking student.