The great and all powerful religion thread!

[Thoth-Amon]

Yeah, I've been to a trad mass. Ruled.

yeah it was very cool... of course when i was orthodox we had very traditional liturgies and such also which were very beautiful... i miss that sometimes

 

[Alter]

As Catholics does having the leader of your entire religion saying that homosexuality is a moral evil bother you?

No, not at all. I dont find it normal whatsoever. I will not go much deeper but I will say its or for them to marry but I find it wrong.

evangelicalism is so obnoxious
the traditional latin mass is quite a beautiful experience though; i also love gregorian chant... i attended a latin mass on ash wednesday a few years ago
catholicism itself while it certainly has it's fair shares of fundies and whack-job's seems to be a more intelligent and 'modern' religion than evangelicalism

Gregorian chant is an amazing thing to see in person.

 

[Zephyrus]

As Catholics does having the leader of your entire religion saying that homosexuality is a moral evil bother you?

You misinterpret. The Church's position on homosexuality is the same as heterosexuality. They believe that the sole purpose of sexual intercourse is for procreation, and the welfare of the offspring is more assured when the sex is conducted under a marriage contract. The Church believes that sex for purposes otherwise is immoral, whether it is in an extramarital relationship between a man and woman, or a homosexual relationship, because neither conduct sex for procreational purposes.

 

[AchrisK]

You misinterpret. The Church's position on homosexuality is the same as heterosexuality. They believe that the sole purpose of sexual intercourse is for procreation, and the welfare of the offspring is more assured when the sex is conducted under a marriage contract. The Church believes that sex for purposes otherwise is immoral, whether it is in an extramarital relationship between a man and woman, or a homosexual relationship, because neither conduct sex for procreational purposes.

That's not quite all true, at least not for us horrible evangelicals. We believe that sex within marriage between a man and woman is a good thing, and is for procreation as well as intimacy and enjoyment. We believe a bond is formed through sex, thus the "two becoming one flesh". This bond is also what we feel is part of the problem with pre- and extra-marital sex.

I agree about the view that the traditional family is seen as the optimal situation for raising healthy children, and I agree with it. Obviously plenty of heterosexual couples mess that one up.

Yes, homosexuality is identified as a sin, just as a myriad of other things are.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

horrible evangelicals

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

That would be a funny punk band name!

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

That's not quite all true, at least not for us horrible evangelicals. We believe that sex within marriage between a man and woman is a good thing, and is for procreation as well as intimacy and enjoyment. We believe a bond is formed through sex, thus the "two becoming one flesh". This bond is also what we feel is part of the problem with pre- and extra-marital sex.

Bow chicca wow wow.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

You misinterpret. The Church's position on homosexuality is the same as heterosexuality. They believe that the sole purpose of sexual intercourse is for procreation, and the welfare of the offspring is more assured when the sex is conducted under a marriage contract. The Church believes that sex for purposes otherwise is immoral, whether it is in an extramarital relationship between a man and woman, or a homosexual relationship, because neither conduct sex for procreational purposes.

i can pretty much guarantee that homosexuality is looked down upon more than heterosexual pre-marital sex in the RCC.

 

[Zephyrus]

Yes, homosexuality is identified as a sin, just as a myriad of other things are.

According to Catholicism, being in a homosexual relationship is not sinful. The only sinful aspect is the act of sex itself, which is no more sinful than sex between non-married heterosexual couples. It respects legal marriages by secular law (i.e. civil unions), but it will not recognize the bond as sacred in the eyes of God.

i can pretty much guarantee that homosexuality is looked down upon more than heterosexual pre-marital sex in the RCC.

We all have our prejudices. It tends to be looked down upon because too many people associate church and state. Conservative Catholics, who believe more strongly in the sanctity of marriage, naturally would look down upon homosexuality (which cannot produce children, even through marriage, obviously) as non-sacred, but they shouldn't extend that religious resentment to secular affairs.

From personal experience, there are plenty of gaysand lesbians in the Catholic church, especially in more liberal areas of the countries. They even serve as ushers, musicians altar servers and lectors at masses (priests, too). They feel comfortable in an environment that respects their relationships, and they understand that in the context of sexual intercourse they have no more or less moral restrictions than a non-married heterosexual couple.

 

[AchrisK]

According to Catholicism, being in a homosexual relationship is not sinful. The only sinful aspect is the act of sex itself, which is no more sinful than sex between non-married heterosexual couples. It respects legal marriages by secular law (i.e. civil unions), but it will not recognize the bond as sacred in the eyes of God.

Yeah, I guess that's correct. It does seem to be the actual sex that is seen as the problem. The preference towards the same sex in non-sexual ways really isn't addressed. We can separate the two in theory, but practically speaking, I would guess the two are rarely separate.

[...]
From personal experience, there are plenty of gays and lesbians in the Catholic church, especially in more liberal areas of the countries. They even serve as ushers, musicians altar servers and lectors at masses (priests, too). They feel comfortable in an environment that respects their relationships, and they understand that in the context of sexual intercourse they have no more or less moral restrictions than a non-married heterosexual couple.

What does this mean? Are you saying they decide not to have sex with their partners, so as to honor the moral guidelines? Or that they decide that "everyone else is doing it", so it's not that big of a deal? I agree that the "sin" is no more severe in the eyes of God, but it's also no less severe.

 

[Zephyrus]

What does this mean? Are you saying they decide not to have sex with their partners, so as to honor the moral guidelines? .

Yes.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

You misinterpret. The Church's position on homosexuality is the same as heterosexuality. They believe that the sole purpose of sexual intercourse is for procreation, and the welfare of the offspring is more assured when the sex is conducted under a marriage contract. The Church believes that sex for purposes otherwise is immoral, whether it is in an extramarital relationship between a man and woman, or a homosexual relationship, because neither conduct sex for procreational purposes.

Are you sure about this? I always thought that sex was only considered immoral if it was conducted in a purely lustful manner.

 

[Zephyrus]

The Church considers any sex not done for procreational purposes to be purely lustful. There is a loophole to this for married couples, as they can time menstrual cycles so they can have sex without both contraception and conception. Some call it "Vatican Roulette."

 

[AchrisK]

Are you sure about this? I always thought that sex was only considered immoral if it was conducted in a purely lustful manner.

Sex can be lustful, as long as you're lusting for your wife.

 

[Zephyrus]

And keep in mind that I am speaking as one well-versed in Catholic doctrine. These are not necessarily my personal beliefs. I feel obligated to defend the Church, because I have learned its perspective on these issues, which I believe are more fair than many critics would claim.

 

[skeptik]

The church obviously looks down on homosexuals more because they can't have sex normally. They can only sodomize each other. And they want to have ass sex with each other, so the church has to look down on ass-sex-fiends by default. God clearly says Thou Shalt Not Have Ass Sex Before Me in the Bible.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

 

[cookiecutter]

No, not at all. I dont find it normal whatsoever. I will not go much deeper but I will say its or for them to marry but I find it wrong.

What is wrong about it. Two people loving each other naturally is not wrong. It is bigoted to think that way.

You misinterpret. The Church's position on homosexuality is the same as heterosexuality. They believe that the sole purpose of sexual intercourse is for procreation, and the welfare of the offspring is more assured when the sex is conducted under a marriage contract. The Church believes that sex for purposes otherwise is immoral, whether it is in an extramarital relationship between a man and woman, or a homosexual relationship, because neither conduct sex for procreational purposes.

I'm not misinterpreting anything. That is a direct quote from Pope Benedict. The church's position is still anti-gay, whether directly, or in this case creating restrictions that gay couples cannot possibly bypass. It's like saying that they don't discriminate against women priests, it's just that you have to have a penis.

EDIT: The actual quote was calling homosexuality an "intrinsic moral evil"
http://www.washblade.com/2005/12-30/news/national/bad-pope.cfm

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

Because the one thing they di that doesn't affect you at all is eeeeviiiiil.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

The Church considers any sex not done for procreational purposes to be purely lustful.

This is pretty ridiculous actually. I mean almost no one has sex for purely procreational purposes. When you look at a hot girl you don't say "Man I think she would make an excellent mother for my 12-15 children". I mean even married couples by and large don't have sex for procreational purposes... hence why some catholics practice as you call it "Vatican Roulette".

The Catechism of the Catholic Church also refers to homosexuality as: "acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that 'homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered'. They are contrary to the natural law" (2357).