The great and all powerful religion thread!

[Omni]

Yes, but since the figure in the story is omniscient, it doesn't matter if a lunatic could also claim to be as that has no bearing on the content of the Bible.

None of us have to know how it works in order for us to understand that in the story of the Bible, the God represented there was omniscient.

 

[Cythraul]

That he thinks he knows everything of course

Ok, but ex hypothesi he doesn't just think he's omniscient, he knows it. That's just a trivial consequence of being omniscient.

what else would it mean?

*sigh* I really don't have the patience to explain to you why what you said was unclear. A better way to say it would probably have been 'omniscient by his own reckoning' or 'according to his own judgment', or something along those lines.

there's no such thing as an omniscient being which is my whole point.

Big deal. The issue is not whether an omniscient being exists, but whether it is problematic for God, provided he exists, to tell humans it's a sin to worship some other god.

Something must make him know he's omniscient right, what the hell in the universe would that possibly be?

The evidence that he has? His direct acquaintance with the very fact? How is it any more problematic for him to know that he's omniscient than it is for him to know other things? Wouldn't it just follow trivially that if he's omniscient, then he knows he's omniscient?

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Why is this even being fucking discussed? It really doesn't have very much relevance anyway. mattsson wtf

 

[Cythraul]

Why is this even being fucking discussed? It really doesn't have very much relevance anyway. mattsson wtf

If you don't have anything better to do than making snide comments from the sidelines, then stay the fuck out.

 

[Blind Guardian]

I don't know what we're discussing here really, that the Biblic God is omniscient? Yes he is, i fully agree. I'm wondering about how Christians, who actually believe this shit, think about it. It defies logic. "How can God tell us there is nothing higher than him?" "Because he knows it". That's the idea of being omniscient, it stops there, "he just knows it because that information is within him". Unlike science, in which a scientist can't stand on a seminar and answer the question "how can this antibiotic cure infections?" with "it just does mang because it's awesome magic from my witch sister". I guess the bottom line is that logic is to prefer from no logic.

 

[Zephyrus]

How about the lions to which children of Christians were fed in an effort to get them to deny their faith?

The Romans were just as religious as the Christians. They started mass persecutions when they saw the rise of a rival faith threatening the values of their society. Sound familiar? The Church did the same thing once it took over.

How about the Atheists who have perpetrated atrocities?

Hitler and Stalin also had mustaches. Did facial hair cause them to kill people?

How about the modern day persecution millions of Christians throughout the world deal with?

The only Christians I hear persecuted today are those persecuted by Muslims, such as in Darfur.

 

[Cythraul]

Hitler and Stalin also had mustaches. Did facial hair cause them to kill people?

No, mustaches just cause pure winnage. Actually, killing Jews is pure winnage.

 

[Zephyrus]

Somebody sig that.

 

[Blind Guardian]

Isn't that racist?

 

[mutantllama]

Are there any Jews on UM?

 

[zabu of nΩd]

ethnically speaking, yes

 

[Cythraul]

Isn't that racist?

Yes.

I'm Cythraul. Nice to meet you.

 

[Blind Guardian]

 

[Einherjar86]

The God figure in the Bible is represented as omniscient, and being omniscient, he'd know he was omniscient since he knows everything. He wouldn't need anyone else to tell him that he was, since he'd automatically be aware of it.

And omniscience itself is a contradiction, because if God was omniscient he would know his own future, thus prohibiting free will. And therefore, he's not omniscient.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Yes.

I'm Cythraul. Nice to meet you.

I miss the funny looking Conquistador-ish dude in your av. Whoever he was.

 

[Zephyrus]

Hernan Cortes.

Speaking of genocide...

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

If you don't have anything better to do than making snide comments from the sidelines, then stay the fuck out.

:zombie: it really wasn't one, I am legitimately questioning what the fuck point mattsson is even trying to make. If you don't like me, ignore me.

 

[Blind Guardian]

:zombie: it really wasn't one, I am legitimately questioning what the fuck point mattsson is even trying to make. If you don't like me, ignore me.

That omniscience isn't logical

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

It doesn't have to be. Logic can't apply to some god who is beyond human concepts (like logic). Logic only works in systems where it is itself defined, as far as I can understand. For instance, math has its own internal axiomatic logic system. So does science (though we learn more because of it all the time, whereas math kind of doesn't change). The Biblical god can't have human logic applied to it; it's beyond us.

 

[Cythraul]

And omniscience itself is a contradiction, because if God was omniscient he would know his own future, thus prohibiting free will. And therefore, he's not omniscient.

The claim that knowing one's own future makes free will impossible is not without controversy, though intuitively it does seem correct.

If you don't like me, ignore me.

If I didn't like you would I be your friend on last.fm? Ponder that question for a while.