The great and all powerful religion thread!

[AchrisK]

I initially got into Christianity mostly for emotional issues, i.e. it felt right or made moral sense out of the world. As my thought processes matured I found I needed to justify my 'fantastic' beliefs with some kind of evidence or at least compelling reasons beyond 'oh it seems right to me'. Initially Christian apologists were convincing. As I learned more about science, life and other religions I found these apologists to be generally unconvincing and shallow. In fact I found them only to be convincing to people who were uninformed about things and already with an emotional commitment to their religion that they were trying to defend in the face of some problems.

I have never been a big reader, though I have read the Bible through a couple of times, plus a bunch more. Right now (finally, and partly because of this board) I am at a place where I am questioning much more and reading more and searching things out that I don't feel I have a grasp on. You all bring up good points, and I am growing in my desire to have these and other questions answered for myself. But I also approach God as a being beyond comprehension and the things he does being mostly beyond comprehension. I believe the Bible has been given and preserved with enough information for us Earthlings to find our way, but even some of what is in there I believe will remain a mystery.

 

[Einherjar86]

It was a test of obediance and trust. YHWH wanted to see if Abraham put Him over his son, not to mention since YHWH had promised that Abraham's line of descendents would come through Isaac, it would stand to reason that Abraham expected that YHWH would intervene.

If Abraham expected God to intervene, doesn't it then stand to reason that he in fact didn't love God more than his own son? This seems like Abraham calling God's bluff, if you ask me. Abraham thinks he can prepare his son to be killed, because God will step in and say I don't have to.

If God had asked Abraham to sacrifice his worldly fortunes and wealth, that would at least adhere to Christian principles and belief.

 

[cookiecutter]

Agree. If something hasn't been disproved, dismissing it as total impossibility is illogical.

fyi being an atheist does not mean you think God is a total impossibility. It just means that you do not believe he exists. I don't think it is a total impossibility that I will die tomorrow but I don't believe I will because I have no evidence that would suggest my imminent death.

The genealogies/Genesis put life existence and solar systems makeup at roughly 6,000 years. Genesis does not put matter existence at 6,000 years though.

If dating techniques are dating the age of matter as opposed to the age of life, I don't see how it's that insane.

Are you serious? There is a ton of evidence of life further back than 6,000 years. Fossils? Ancient human ruins? Are you really going to claim the ancient Egyptians were not alive?

Do you have a choice whether or not to believe in trees? I believe because I am convinced it is the truth. I believe I have chosen to accepted the truth, rather than choosing to believe in a religion. Do you see the difference? I think people choose not to believe all day long. Are your objections really based on a lack of evidence? If someone reasonable convinced you that Christianity might be true, would you be willing to even consider it for yourself? Do you even care whether it is the truth or not?

Do is it ever bother you that you are only your particular religion because of where and to whom you were born? That's something that I certainly considered as I thought about my religious beliefs and I can't get over it. You say that you are convinced of the truth, yet if you were born in Saudi Arabia you would be convinced that there was one true God named Allah whose prophet was Mohammed. Leaving aside the question of God for a second, how can you be convinced the truth of one religion over another?

 

[Uncreation]

How about the modern day persecution millions of Christians throughout the world deal with?

Do you even care whether it is the truth or not?

Not really, no. I see no active roll being taken by any supposed deity, so even if one (or more) did exist, why should it effect the way I live my life?

 

[Blind Guardian]

Do is it ever bother you that you are only your particular religion because of where and to whom you were born? That's something that I certainly considered as I thought about my religious beliefs and I can't get over it. You say that you are convinced of the truth, yet if you were born in Saudi Arabia you would be convinced that there was one true God named Allah whose prophet was Mohammed. Leaving aside the question of God for a second, how can you be convinced the truth of one religion over another?

I had this same argument with my mom who is Christian. She claimed she still would be Christian if she lived in a Muslim country. But no one is really able to tell why they think so. On the other hand the same could be said about me as neither my mother nor anyone else raised me to become religious, so i haven't became religious. The difference though is that no one has told me not to believe either.

 

[AchrisK]

Do is it ever bother you that you are only your particular religion because of where and to whom you were born? That's something that I certainly considered as I thought about my religious beliefs and I can't get over it. You say that you are convinced of the truth, yet if you were born in Saudi Arabia you would be convinced that there was one true God named Allah whose prophet was Mohammed. Leaving aside the question of God for a second, how can you be convinced the truth of one religion over another?

I don't know if it bothers me, but it is a valid point. I do not know what I would be like if I was born somewhere else. But I figure that's God's to deal with. It may sound like a cop-out, but what else can I do?

But I am fully convinced that one religion is true while others are not, or that no religion is true. I believe there is truth. There is a way things are. We talk and talk about all these things, and all the while there is a truth that some or all of us are missing. Do you agree with what I have said so far?

 

[seedofvengeance]

Whoever was claiming life didn't exist before 6000 years ago is retarded... and it's quite shocking that someone with the ability to type, spell, and read would even make that argument. I'm going to assume that it was a joke, since that level of stupidity is incomprehensible to me.

 

[Matt]

But I am fully convinced that one religion is true while others are not, or that no religion is true. I believe there is truth. There is a way things are. We talk and talk about all these things, and all the while there is a truth that some or all of us are missing. Do you agree with what I have said so far?

So you're saying that your religion is the only one that is true?

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Well...not all religions or even two religions can really be "true" at the same time...so it's natural he feels that the religion he believes in is the true one.

 

[AchrisK]

So you're saying that your religion is the only one that is true?

So far all I have said is that either one religion is true, or no religions are true. By "religion" I mean major systems of beliefs. I know that within Christianity, for example, there are a lot of denominations and peripheral issue that are not agreed upon, but the basics are pretty much agreed upon, and when they are not, it is no longer Christianity.

Do you disagree that either one is true, or none are true?

 

[Matt]

Totally disagree. The only way I can accept religion is if all are true.

That's a little controversial and out there, but w/e

 

[AchrisK]

That makes no sense. Can you explain how they can all be true?

 

[Matt]

So far all I have said is that either one religion is true, or no religions are true. By "religion" I mean major systems of beliefs. I know that within Christianity, for example, there are a lot of denominations and peripheral issue that are not agreed upon, but the basics are pretty much agreed upon, and when they are not, it is no longer Christianity.

Do you disagree that either one is true, or none are true?

I disagree that only one is true. I think that if anything, the Christian god is the same as Allah or the Sun or whateverthefuck everyone else believes in.

edit - I keep getting ninja'd!

 

[The Creator of Failure]

There's something very important about Christianity that people don't understand - the church has nothing to do with Jesus. The New Testament is crap, there was that council when Constantine the Great, Roman Emperor, accepted Christianity as the official religion of the Empire, and there they made the new Testament so that it serves the church. It was edited countless times, they omitted everything they didn't like and added new things in order to allow themselves to oppress people and put them under control... So Christians actually don't believe in Jesus/his father (whoever you consider to be the god), they follow a completely different religion created by the church in the last 1600/1700 years. The New Testament has nothing to do with Christ's teaching. I saw a book called "Jesus Didn't Say That" that deals with that. I don't know the author though.

Also, the real Christianity, as preached by Jesus, wasn't bad at all and I say that even though I'm against organized religion. He preached love, peace, tolerance... what's bad about that? And look at the Bible... look at everything the church did in the past 1600 years... it's all the opposite to the Christ's teaching.

 

[The Creator of Failure]

That makes no sense. Can you explain how they can all be true?

Logically, asserting one force doesn't mean denying others.

However, if you're already religious, it is logical that there is only one god (or more precisely one pantheon since not all religions have a single god). Every religion has its own version of the creation of the world, so well, if you say that there are gods of 10 different pantheons that would mean that one the same world was created in 10 different ways, and that applies to all other explanations of all sorts of things there are in religions.
(sorry for the double post)

 

[skeptik]

Different religions have inherent contradictions so it's a logical impossibility for all of them to be true you dumbass.

 

[AchrisK]

I disagree that only one is true. I think that if anything, the Christian god is the same as Allah or the Sun or whateverthefuck everyone else believes in.

edit - I keep getting ninja'd!

Well to say that is to say that the Bible doesn't accurately represent the Christian God, and the Koran doesn't accurately represent Allah. Because the Bible says that God says he is the only God. I am betting Allah says the same thing. Virtually every religion is mutually exclusive. There is no way they can all be correct, because if they were, they would all be lying.

 

[AchrisK]

Logically, asserting one force doesn't mean denying others.

It does if they each specifically say that they are the only force.

 

[The Creator of Failure]

Different religions have inherent contradictions so it's a logical impossibility for all of them to be true you dumbass.

The first sentence was more general, read the second one - "However, if you're already religious, it is logical that there is only one god (or more precisely one pantheon since not all religions have a single god)."

 

[Blind Guardian]

How can God tell us that worshipping another god is a sin when he doesn't know if another god created him? That's the biggest contradiction of them all and i'm surprised no one seems to think of that.