zabu of nΩd
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The great and all powerful religion thread!
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Hatebreeder
Pizzicato Heartstrings
zabu of nΩd
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Back to the agnostic vs. atheist debate: I really think you atheists give too much credit to our ability to eventually find a logical explanation for the origin of the universe. We've already applied logic to the problem, and the result is that either the universe was created from nothing, or it has always existed. Seriously, what room is there for another logical explanation?
skeptik
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The likelihood is that we will never know how something was created from nothing, or how to even begin to fathom the concept of something having always existed. I don't think anyone really thinks that we'll ever know the truth. But we can at least try to figure out when the universe came to be and from what, even if we'll never how how that original life-giving substance came to be (or if it simply always was).
Hatebreeder
Pizzicato Heartstrings
Back to the agnostic vs. atheist debate: I really think you atheists give too much credit to our ability to eventually find a logical explanation for the origin of the universe. We've already applied logic to the problem, and the result is that either the universe was created from nothing, or it has always existed. Seriously, what room is there for another logical explanation?
You have a point. Logic is not something that only a select few, higher thinkers can have. Even children have logic; they will usually give you straightforward, logical answers to questions you ask of them.
"Why did you steal that toy, little Johnny?"
"Because I wanted it."
They won't say "I felt that it was being wasted sitting on the shelf gathering dust in that store, and that me repossessing it would give more credibility to its given purpose and get much more use out of it, seeing as people working in a factory probably spent a lot of time assembling it".
Seriously, it's not fucking rocket science.
I fail to see how not having a complete answer for the origin of the universe causes one to lean towards agnosticism. If it does, you are using the fallacy that without a scientific answer, a religious answer becomes more plausible.
Back to the agnostic vs. atheist debate: I really think you atheists give too much credit to our ability to eventually find a logical explanation for the origin of the universe. We've already applied logic to the problem, and the result is that either the universe was created from nothing, or it has always existed. Seriously, what room is there for another logical explanation?
Hatebreeder
Pizzicato Heartstrings
I've always wished that one could believe in the existence of a "God" without being bombarded with accusations of being "religious". Religion is a man-made creation; why can't someone feel that there is a "God" without human limitation without submitting themselves to specific religious definitions?
zabu of nΩd
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Uh, you can. Just tell people you have non-specific spiritual beliefs. You could probably even pass it off as a "philosophy".
Hatebreeder
Pizzicato Heartstrings
I know, but I'm speaking more for my annoyance at folk who think I'm stupid for it.
Thoth-Amon
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zabu of nΩd
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Hmm... I think you won. However, I still have a hard time accepting a supernatural explanation as being complete nonsense, especially when there seems to be such intuitive force behind such explanations. Just look at all the various religions and mythologies that sprang up around the world independently of each other. Religious thought is practically instinctual.
Maybe it'll click with me one day, and I'll be able to settle comfortably into atheism. I hope so, anyway - I think about this shit obsessively. It's probably my favorite philosophical problem of all time.
Rabid Headbanger
New Metal Member
Because if scientific explanation was instinctual, then we would have skipped a few thousand years and gotten straight to the point.
And of course it's instinctual. Humans are natural born story tellers. Just listen to a child try to get out of trouble.
Because most people equate God with the God of The Bible. Seriously, I've talked to my family about this saying "I don't have to believe in the Bible or a religion to believe there may be a creator" and it's almost as if I've gotten a blank look.
As bluewizard pointed out, most believers also are religious. You aren't so you believe fewer things on faith, but you still believe in one.
It is instinctual. That doesn't make it true. 2000 years ago, the Greeks didn't know what the sun was, so they said it was a God. So did numerous other cultures such as the Inca. That is multiples religions springing up all over the world thinking the same thing. They were still wrong.
I feel Atheism is a very comforting and liberating life philosophy. You no longer believe in the unsupported supernatural claims of others, which often only serve to cause fear and divisiveness. You can appreciate your one life, without worrying about a mythical eternal one. You can wonder about and work towards solving life's mysteries, without being obfuscated by "answers" which are unsupported by evidence. It really makes me feel great.
skeptik
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I look at the earliest spiritual philosophies as actually as sort of predecessor of science, in that it was the result of a search for answers, and due to the limitations of that very early time of human history, I'm sure it seemed a hell of a lot more plausible. I'm not sure if "spiritualism" is instinctual to man so much as is a thirst for knowledge and understanding, and the earliest beliefs of gods and goddesses were most likely very much the answers reached that best satisfied man's first inquiries into scientific understanding, because at that time many things that we know now were indeed legitimately well beyond the comprehension of man, so what other explanation could there be?
Hatebreeder
Pizzicato Heartstrings
I feel similarly, but who's to say that all of our scientific knowledge is not discoveries of how a "God" designed the earth? Why couldn't "God" have programmed the earth to evolve as it apparently did and let it run its own course?
That's a good point. Now that we know that those spiritual answer did not turn out to be correct, we should be able to not repeat their mistake and plug God(s) into the current holes in our knowledge.
Because there is no evidence to support the truth of this. Why did the flying spaghetti monster not design the Earth?
Hatebreeder
Pizzicato Heartstrings
Nor is there evidence to support all the detailed specificities of evolution. It is still just a theory, let me remind you.
