The great and all powerful religion thread!

[~Derek~]

^Do you think all those Virgin Mary sightings are just people hallucinating?
I don't really think I could ever go back to Christianity, I mean sure there's all these miracles that people say that cant be disproved by science(people claiming to have seen angels, demons, Virign Mary, etc..) but to me the Bible itself just doesnt equal out to those claims, it seems a lot more like mythology and that something is "wrong" with the people who claim these sightings. By Biblical standards Jesus isn
t the Messiah anyways from what I've read in the Old Testament prophecies. I guess I should probbaly stop considering people's supernatural sightings about whether theyre true or not and just go on with my life not worrying about the end of it, I've actually met someone who's claimed these sightings, one of my professors claimed to have seen demons and angels and said "God isnt happy with the human existence right now", but there's really no reaosn I should worry over people's claims or even consider people's suypernatural claims being true, it just doesnt equal out to me.

 

[~Derek~]

My question was at Alter.

 

[AchrisK]

Name one legitimate miracle that can be validated as genuine.

What is your point? What is the point of all of you who argue against the existence of God? I am truly curious here. Is it to try to dissuade people from their beliefs? Are you seriously trying to convert people away from belief in God? Are you evangelical Atheists? Do you think religious freedom is a good thing? Do you think Atheism should be required? Do you really think that only unintelligent people believe in the existence of God? Do you think that Christianity has only had negative effects on societies? Seriously, what is it that makes you try to pick away at anyone who has faith in God or even is open to the idea?

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

Catholiscm is to mankind as the bubonic plague was to europe.

 

[skeptik]

What is your point? What is the point of all of you who argue against the existence of God? I am truly curious here. Is it to try to dissuade people from their beliefs? Are you seriously trying to convert people away from belief in God? Are you evangelical Atheists? Do you think religious freedom is a good thing? Do you think Atheism should be required? Do you really think that only unintelligent people believe in the existence of God? Do you think that Christianity has only had negative effects on societies? Seriously, what is it that makes you try to pick away at anyone who has faith in God or even is open to the idea?

I want people to think about what they're saying. Shake off your defensive shield. I refute claims of any kind that have no validity. When somebody says that there are too many examples of miracles to not believe in God, then I refute that, because there are no accepted examples of a "genuine" miracle ever occurring, and I don't believe that a "miracle" as it is defined can possibly happen. So obviously a claim suggesting that it has happened numerous times should be countered. I'm not attacking religion, I'm questioning a statement, just as I would question an inaccurate statement about any other topic.

 

[AchrisK]

I want people to think about what they're saying. Shake off your defensive shield. I refute claims of any kind that have no validity. When somebody says that there are too many examples of miracles to not believe in God, then I refute that, because there are no accepted examples of a "genuine" miracle ever occurring, and I don't believe that a "miracle" as it is defined can possibly happen. So obviously a claim suggesting that it has happened numerous times should be countered. I'm not attacking religion, I'm questioning a statement, just as I would question an inaccurate statement about any other topic.

I have no defensive shield. I just trip out on how motivated you are to refute any claims that anyone makes about the existence of God. It's like you are on a mission. It seems very evangelical in nature.

And is it because you are concerned for the people? Because you make it sould like you really care and want people to think about why they are wrong for believing in God. "Oh no! What if they start believing in God and start feeling they have a purpose and a reason to be a better person? Nothing forbid!!"

So if a person really thinks about it and even looks into things and does more thinking and investigating, and they come up with God, is that ok with you? Or are they just automatically wrong and stupid if that is their conclusion?

 

[skeptik]

You're making the mistake in thinking that I approach religion and stupid statement made regarding religion differently than I would any other topic. All that I did was suggest that somebody show evidence to support an absurd claim that they made. All of a sudden you start implying that I have an ulterior motive for doing this other than simply questioning somebody on something that they said that is wholly unfounded. I'm not "on a mission," I'm simply questioning a statement.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

What is your point? What is the point of all of you who argue against the existence of God? I am truly curious here. Is it to try to dissuade people from their beliefs? Are you seriously trying to convert people away from belief in God? Are you evangelical Atheists? Do you think religious freedom is a good thing? Do you think Atheism should be required? Do you really think that only unintelligent people believe in the existence of God? Do you think that Christianity has only had negative effects on societies? Seriously, what is it that makes you try to pick away at anyone who has faith in God or even is open to the idea?

It is the duty of the educated citizen to speak out against ignorance when they see it; credulous persons who not only vote but spread false information in public are a threat to our democratic way of life. It is frightening to think that people who disregard such valuable human constructs as the scientific method and logic have an equal voice in the direction of their countries.

 

[Alter]

Name one legitimate miracle that can be validated as genuine.

There have been countless at Lourdes. Lourdes in its modern time now is DISGUSTING. The story of Lourdes itself predicted World War 1 and 2.

There have been in my family but obviously you would laugh.

The point is that if you doubt something research it.

 

[skeptik]

I have done research on it you jackass, and that's why I'm laughing. There has never been even a single legitimate case of a miracle that could actually be proven to have happened in the entire history of the fucking world. Do you know why? Because miracles don't exist.

 

[Alter]

^Do you think all those Virgin Mary sightings are just people hallucinating?
I don't really think I could ever go back to Christianity, I mean sure there's all these miracles that people say that cant be disproved by science(people claiming to have seen angels, demons, Virign Mary, etc..) but to me the Bible itself just doesnt equal out to those claims, it seems a lot more like mythology and that something is "wrong" with the people who claim these sightings. By Biblical standards Jesus isn
t the Messiah anyways from what I've read in the Old Testament prophecies. I guess I should probbaly stop considering people's supernatural sightings about whether theyre true or not and just go on with my life not worrying about the end of it, I've actually met someone who's claimed these sightings, one of my professors claimed to have seen demons and angels and said "God isnt happy with the human existence right now", but there's really no reaosn I should worry over people's claims or even consider people's suypernatural claims being true, it just doesnt equal out to me.

I really doubt there are people hallucinating the same thing over and over again without the use of a drug. Dont take the bible has it was straight from the hand of god. Many evangelicals claim that so they can control people 100% and so that they dont think about the texts in the own mind. I have found that researching christian religion can help one understand how it all works out. Simply going to a church and sitting there wont help you believe.
Though sitting and studying sightings and the bible(dont take it all literally) will help you understand it all better. Look at religion in a open mind. Better yet look at ALL religions with an open mind.

 

[skeptik]

Yeah, turn Christianity into an ad hoc, 7 headed beast until you're able to explain away all the absurdities.

 

[Alter]

I have done research on it you jackass, and that's why I'm laughing. There has never been even a single legitimate case of a miracle that could actually be proven to have happened in the entire history of the fucking world. Do you know why? Because miracles don't exist.

Ok.

Explain to me how there have never been any miracles.
Those sightings explain how there not real also.

Mind you I am looking at all this with an open mind so calling me a jackass is uncalled for.

 

[Alter]

Yeah, turn Christianity into an ad hoc, 7 headed beast until you're able to explain away all the absurdities.

Sorry if I sound oblivious(Am I using this word right?) but can you explain that sentence in a simpler way or make sense of it.

 

[skeptik]

I defy you to show me an accepted case of a miracle. Simple as that. Can you do that? If not, shut the hell up.

 

[Imolarot]

I would fall into the Agnostic category, I really do not believe in the god or gods and bible and kuran or whatever all them old books are. I tend to be in favor of the science side of the arguments. I sometimes enjoy pissing off the religious types when they get going by making some smart ass remark towards them or their religion they are supporting. I do not want to hear about and several others that believe in a better god do not want to hear it either. I get the "you are going to hell" for my music or comments towards something or someone and I always reply with "It is better to reign in hell than to serve in heavan" oh boy does them piss them off - but you know what, they shut up and leave me alone after that.

 

[Alter]

I defy you to show me an accepted case of a miracle. Simple as that. Can you do that? If not, shut the hell up.

Ok I will. Do you mind if I take some time to provide you will links?


So then I ask you to show me your case on how all the miracles at Lourdes are not true.

 

[skeptik]

Take the rest of your life, it doesn't matter.

http://academics.vmi.edu/psy_dr/Hume on miracles.htm

 

[cookiecutter]

Yeah, so I'm basically agnostic now. I've come to a lot of realizations in the past few weeks that have made me caused me to lose any faith I may have had left regarding Christianity. I am bordering on being atheist, but I do not really believe that a "supernatural force" cannot exist in some way.

Why do you believe that a "supernatural force" cannot exist? There is no evidence to suggest it does.

Welcome to the club. Please, have a seat, grab a beer, and enjoy your stay in the amoral, meaningless void.

Yeah, I'm in roughly the same position as you at the moment. Atheism does seem like a bit too hasty an assumption given how irrational and inexplicable our whole existence seems, but I guess that's really just an argument from ignorance, and that inference to the best explanation would lead to there being no god(s), since every natural phenomenon we can explain suggests nothing supernatural whatsoever.

Well you seem to be answering your own objections but I'll raise one point that often seems to go unmentioned. As much as people don't like to admit, humans do not know everything. We don't know a great many things about the origins of life or of the universe. That just means that we don't know, injecting God in there is not logically valid. This is called the God of the gaps fallacy.

Well, I'm a bit bogged down in that TalkOrigins.com site at the moment. Reading through "29+ Evidences for Macroevolution". I was not aware that the idea of common descent/macroevolution had been moved to the status of fact, and that the mechanism by which it happened is the main thing being researched. I was thinking about making an "Evolution" thread to discuss it specifically. But I am not sure I am ready to start discussing it since I am in the middle (ok, closer to the beginning, finishing up transitional forms) of these evidences. This stuff is very complex and hard to fully grasp, though I think I am grasping enough to kinda understand what's going on so far.

I am also reading "A Case for Easter" by Lee Strobel. It's like a mini-book (may even be taken from his book "A Case For Chirst", though I am not sure) about the (mostly historical) evidence for the ressurection of Christ. One thing I find very interesting is the contrast between the disciplines of history and science, and the types of things used as evidence, and how they are evaluated.

I don't think Lee Strobel is the best person to turn to if you want objective history but I admire you for caring enough to expand your knowledge of relevant issues

What is your point? What is the point of all of you who argue against the existence of God? I am truly curious here. Is it to try to dissuade people from their beliefs? Are you seriously trying to convert people away from belief in God? Are you evangelical Atheists? Do you think religious freedom is a good thing? Do you think Atheism should be required? Do you really think that only unintelligent people believe in the existence of God? Do you think that Christianity has only had negative effects on societies? Seriously, what is it that makes you try to pick away at anyone who has faith in God or even is open to the idea?

1. This is a thread about religion. That is the discussion topic. If you don't want to discuss that then why are you here. We are discussing our (lack of) religious views and explaining why they are better. You are doing the same. I don't see a problem. Please don't feel like we are persecuting YOU when we are just responding to your beliefs and claims.

2. I care about this subject because it pains me to see people persist in beliefs that have no basis in fact and then do bad things based on it. One needs only to look at the fact that 49/50 states in the United States do not allows gays the same marriage rights that straight people have. One needs only look at the attempt to teach creationism in schools. THAT is why I care that people consider what they believe and consider how it affects others.

Ok.

Explain to me how there have never been any miracles.
Those sightings explain how there not real also.

Mind you I am looking at all this with an open mind so calling me a jackass is uncalled for.

YOU are making a claim. It is YOUR job to back it up, not for others to prove you wrong. The mere fact that you can't back up your ridiculous claims shows that you are wrong.

 

[Alter]

YOU are making a claim. It is YOUR job to back it up, not for others to prove you wrong. The mere fact that you can't back up your ridiculous claims shows that you are wrong.

No. I am going to back up my claim. With many links. I also want him to respond with his view back to me.