Rabid Headbanger
New Metal Member
Even though I don't see them, I know how leprechauns work.
Little fuckers take my sandwiches when I turn my back.
Little fuckers take my sandwiches when I turn my back.
The great and all powerful religion thread!
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AchrisK
Weakling
Rabid Headbanger
New Metal Member
No, lack of evidence. None has been presented in this thread or elsewhere. Again, if you can show me some that is not anecdotal, scripture or argument from consent, all of which is not evidence, I'll be happy to hear it.
EDIT: Rabid, I'm trying to have a reasonable discussion with the only person who cares enough to talk about this issue. Please do no insult him.
Rabid Headbanger
New Metal Member
Motherfucker is really not a painful insult. Maybe if I called him cuntsleeve or a cum sucking jesus fucking bag of crap, that would be an insult.
I don't want to get into argument with you, I would just appreciate it if you would treat people with respect when you are posting in this thread.
AchrisK
Weakling
Not that you care, but I would prefer you keep Jesus out of these insults. Say what you want about me.
Rabid Headbanger
New Metal Member
AchrisK
Weakling
AchrisK
Weakling
First you have to establish the definition of evidence, especially in a case where proof doesn’t exist. We all agree that God can’t be proven or disproven. So in this case, evidence is:
1. A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment.
2. Something indicative; an outward sign.
The American Heritage®
Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Can we agree on this definition for this case? If not, then what definition should be used?
1. A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment.
2. Something indicative; an outward sign.
The American Heritage®
Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Can we agree on this definition for this case? If not, then what definition should be used?
zabu of nΩd
Free Insultation
- Feb 9, 2007
- 14,620
- 805
- 113
What's with you and trolling this thread? As far as I can tell you've contributed nothing valuable to any of the debates here. There are some threads here that people actually take mildly seriously, you know.
I like these two from dictionary.com. If nothing else your definition 2 works. 1 is too vague.
1. that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.
2. something that makes plain or clear; an indication or sign: His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.
Proof is gained through evidence. To be proven means to be shown existent by the evidence. God cannot be proven or disproven 100%. The evidence tells us however whether his existence or nonexistence is more probable. Since to evaluate a claim, you must begin at disbelief (note: not negative belief) the burden of proof is to provide enough of evidence of God's existence to make it a plausible hypothesis.
AchrisK
Weakling
The problem is that proof cannot be gained in this case. Another problem is that I cannot give the amount and type of evidence that will convince someone into belief. I can only give the evidence that I and many other people have evaluated to come to, or to support, the decision to believe. I am not sure if I even need to proceed, because if you're looking for more than that, I can't give it.
King Richard
Hello there
In short, evidence is something that can cumulatively pieced together to prove something fact or fiction.
In religion's case, there is no evidence. Thus proving the basis for argument over whether god exists or does not exist a moot point.
edit: horray I just saved us another 48+ pages of arguing the same shit over and over
In religion's case, there is no evidence. Thus proving the basis for argument over whether god exists or does not exist a moot point.
edit: horray I just saved us another 48+ pages of arguing the same shit over and over
AchrisK
Weakling
Well it's certainly an exercise in futility, but one I am enjoying. It has caused me to investigate what I believe more than I ever have in the past.
King Richard
Hello there
AchrisK
Weakling
AchrisK
Weakling
Since I have to go to bed, I will just slap up what I have typed up in rough form. As you can see I need to do a LOT more research. None of these in and of themselves convince me, but taken as w hole, they give me confidence. I am sure I have missed many.
--
There is the Bible itself. As written it is not a book that any group can gain a personal advantage with. Don’t ignore the “as written”. It protects itself from misuse. This is not the characteristic of a man-made religious text. What I lack to drive this point further is knowledge of other religious texts
I have heard many claims that the Bible has a track record of historical and geographical accuracy, and has been cited as possibly the most accurate ancient text. I know this doesn’t prove it’s claims, but if it can be trusted in things we can verify, it lends credibility to the possibility that it is accurate in other ways. But I need to look into this a lot more. You guys have said it has been shown inaccurate in these areas, so I need to look into that.
There is fulfilled predictive prophecy. Not just all those little ones that the Bible itself says were fulfilled. But more crazy stuff like predicting the date Jesus would enter Jerusalem, predicting a city that would be thrown into the sea, predicting a building that would be destroyed so that not one stone would be left on top of another, the old testament accounts of crucifixion. More stuff I need to read up on.
There is the continuity of the whole Bible with no major theological inconsistencies or contradictions. I need to read more on this. I especially need to read about how the modern Bible was put together.
There is historical evidence for the existence of Jesus, his crucifixion, a missing body, physical sitings, changed disciples to the extent that they would go to their deaths for what they say they witnessed. I know that there are no lack of religious people who will die for their faith, but these guys were eye witnesses. If they were pulling a scam or lying, then they knew the real truth, and why would they all die for a known lie?
There are tons of changed lives that I have witnessed and read about.
There is the inborn idea that there is a higher power, evidenced throughout history and all over the world.
There is a seemingly unexplainable problem with the origin of matter. A problem so profound that even if we heard the answer (assuming it was not God) it would probably be beyond our grasp to comprehend.
There is my own experience.
--
There is the Bible itself. As written it is not a book that any group can gain a personal advantage with. Don’t ignore the “as written”. It protects itself from misuse. This is not the characteristic of a man-made religious text. What I lack to drive this point further is knowledge of other religious texts
I have heard many claims that the Bible has a track record of historical and geographical accuracy, and has been cited as possibly the most accurate ancient text. I know this doesn’t prove it’s claims, but if it can be trusted in things we can verify, it lends credibility to the possibility that it is accurate in other ways. But I need to look into this a lot more. You guys have said it has been shown inaccurate in these areas, so I need to look into that.
There is fulfilled predictive prophecy. Not just all those little ones that the Bible itself says were fulfilled. But more crazy stuff like predicting the date Jesus would enter Jerusalem, predicting a city that would be thrown into the sea, predicting a building that would be destroyed so that not one stone would be left on top of another, the old testament accounts of crucifixion. More stuff I need to read up on.
There is the continuity of the whole Bible with no major theological inconsistencies or contradictions. I need to read more on this. I especially need to read about how the modern Bible was put together.
There is historical evidence for the existence of Jesus, his crucifixion, a missing body, physical sitings, changed disciples to the extent that they would go to their deaths for what they say they witnessed. I know that there are no lack of religious people who will die for their faith, but these guys were eye witnesses. If they were pulling a scam or lying, then they knew the real truth, and why would they all die for a known lie?
There are tons of changed lives that I have witnessed and read about.
There is the inborn idea that there is a higher power, evidenced throughout history and all over the world.
There is a seemingly unexplainable problem with the origin of matter. A problem so profound that even if we heard the answer (assuming it was not God) it would probably be beyond our grasp to comprehend.
There is my own experience.
Thoth-Amon
Hypochondriac
- Apr 4, 2006
- 6,821
- 8
- 38
Um... it does not predict the date that Jesus would enter Jerusalem. I assume you are referring to the passage in Zech. 9:9. Interestingly "Matthew" misread the original Hebrew of this passage and pictures Jesus riding into Jerusalem on two animals while the other Gospel writers who read the original passage correctly have him sitting on just one animal. Clearly Matthew was "fudging" historical events in order to get it to line up with how he misread prophecy. Not exactly the sign of divine inspiration is it? You can read more about this here: http://www.geocities.com/b_r_a_d_99/twodonkeys.htm
As far as "fulfilled propehcy" is concerned how about some of the false prophecy that the NT gives in regards to the second coming?
See this link: http://www.geocities.com/b_r_a_d_99/comingsoon.htm
And this also:
From the Skeptic's Annotated Bible:
The end will come within the lifetime of Jesus's listeners.
"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." -- Matthew16:28
"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." -- Luke 9:27
"Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation." -- Matthew 23:36
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." -- Matthew 24:34
"Nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." -- Matthew 26:64
"Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power." -- Mark 9:1
"Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." -- Mark 13:30
"And ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." -- Mark 14:62
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." -- Luke 21:32
"Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?" -- John 21:22
The end will come within the lifetime of the the New Testament authors.
"Waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ ... that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." -- 1 Corinthians 1:7-8
"But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none." -- 1 Corinthians 7:29
"That ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. -- Philippians 1:10
"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." -- 1 Thessalonians 4:17
"I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:23
"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son...." -- Hebrews 1:2
"But now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself." -- Hebrews 9:26
"Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you." -- 1 Peter 1:20
"But the end of all things is at hand." -- 1 Peter 4:7
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time." -- 1 John 2:18
The end will come soon. (Within a couple thousand years or so.)
"The Lord is at hand." -- Philippians 4:5
"For the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." -- James 5:8
"For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry." -- Hebrews 10:37
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass. -- Revelation 1:1
"The time is at hand." -- Revelation 1:3
"Behold, I come quickly." -- Revelation 3:11, 22:7, 22:12
"Surely I come quickly." -- Revelation 22:20
