The Mix that SUCKS THE MOST! TOPIC

[musickey]

Anything that i have done trying to figure this shit out though.

 

[Mendel]

As the palaces is one of my fav. productions of all time, but nothing beats ashes of the wake...
It´s not as warm as sacrament but hey, i like it

NOW MY BIGGEST QUESTION IS:

What do you guys think of the Unspoken King ? ( Cryptopsy )

AND NOT THE MUSIC NO NO!

The mix, what do you guys think of the mix ?

I fucking love it and yes, i love most of the music also.

 

[K Odell]

lots of confusing of the terms Production and Mix here.

agreed.

 

[Mendel]

Bloodjinn...help us out then and clear it up :0

 

[joeymusicguy]

are you guys serious? fall of ideals is like the mix i strive for

new all that remains mix sucks ass!!

 

[The Unavoidable]

I'm really divided on AJFA, on one hand it's so ridicoulusy "in your face" and punchy and it really gives the songs their own character and just generally sounds awesome. On the other hand, it sounds like crap! Crappy drum tones, very scooped guitars and NOBASSCOMEON!!!

 

[Felix Neumann]

the new arch enemy "rise of the tyrant" sucks...but the solos are great !!

 

[Chryst Krispies]

I wanna get this straight.
My understanding is...

Production- Is the producer doin his/her thing, working on the small details that make the songs sound good. Giving the artist creative feedback and ideas.
Mix- The sonic version of the producer's job, making the album/artist sound the way the producer/artist want to sound like, be it super clean, or raw etc whatever.

Am I right...or totally retarded?

 

[Metaltastic]

Well technically, isn't "mixing" by definition making all the tracks that have already been recorded sound good, rather than recording them in the first place? Cuz while JFAC's Genesis, for example, sounds good, to me it's clear that Andy didn't track it but rather just was given the files and mixed it as best he could, evidenced especially by the sub-par (IMO) drums.

 

[K Odell]

Well technically, isn't "mixing" by definition making all the tracks that have already been recorded sound good, rather than recording them in the first place? Cuz while JFAC's Genesis, for example, sounds good, to me it's clear that Andy didn't track it but rather just was given the files and mixed it as best he could, evidenced especially by the sub-par (IMO) drums.

See thats what I think about when I here about mixing. is doing the smaller stuff like adjusting levels and little eq things. Production to me deals with the structure of songs and creating layers and making sure the songs are as good as possible

 

[Metaltastic]

And thus, in between the two is tracking/recording, though I'm not sure what the title for that position is (recording engineer, I suppose, but when I hear that I often think of mixing being included in that unless specified otherwise, such as JFaC having a recording engineer and sending the "Genesis" files to Andy)

 

[K Odell]

yeah i would say recording engineer but seems like now a days they all pretty much end up being one.

 

[Mendel]

Now a days the slang of "what a good production" is the whole album, the mix, the master etc.


How wrong are we these days. Even me

 

[beyond dead]

Now a days the slang of "what a good production" is the whole album, the mix, the master etc.

yeah, i think a good production, engineering (getting tones) and mixing should be done by the same person for best results. there is no room for error if you want perfection, and these processes go hand in hand with each other and they really should be integrated into the same process.

 

[James Murphy]

very idealistic concept.... and in metal it happens that way quite often, because you have lots of 'all-in' guys that produce, engineer, and mix... andy, me, zeuss, bogren, machine, etc. etc.... but it's just not always the case that the best producers are always also technically adept, and those guys need an engineer... and getting a third party mixer is common for very good reason.

 

[beyond dead]

fa sho. just like acousticians spend their life just learning how to tune a room, each person spends all their time focussing on one aspect. at this point the most important thing is that they can all work well together to achieve the best possible results. ie. each person knows what the other expects and will be able to work well with.
also, like in the case of the new aild, maybe the mix engineer does not have time to reamp or something like that, and must outsource to a trusted source.

but i think there is a benefit in the mix engineer also engineering because the tones achieved would affect the mix, and a dif. tone may be need to properly sit in the mix.

also, the arrangement affects the mix as well. and the tones affect the arrangement :zombie:

 

[Rex Rocker]

Personally, I don't like the production in ANY Metallica record but the Black Album.

Lamb of God - As the Palaces Burn. Didn't Devin townsend produce that one? I don't know many of his works, but I think he's kinda known as far as being a good producer, no? The mix sounds sooooo middy to me... it definitely pales in comparison to Ashes of the Wake and Sacrament. Not a fan of those two either, to be honest, NEEDZ MOAR LOW END, but the drums on those sound so gorgeous (to me) that I don't consider them as badly produced.

Darkest Hour - Deliver us. To me, it sounds like someone turned the gain and compressor knobs all the way up on the guitars. Otherwise, I'm cool with everything else in this record.

 

[Metaltastic]

I'd just like to add on Hypocrisy's "Virus" to this list, though my main complaint is the mastering - I truly have NEVER heard something so wretchedly smashed and audibly distorting as this (people talk about "In Sorte Diaboli," that album might as well be a classical recording in comparison to "Virus" dynamic-wise uke: ). It also is the loudest album I have on my iPod, bar none (so at least all that smashing and distortion accomplished that).

 

[Caveman Ninja]

Hey, Violence's Eternal Nightmare isn't THAT bad... fairly typical of Thrash at the time, Testament's first album being an example. I actually quite like that sound, it's kind of raw which sometimes suits angry music.

Quite aside from St. Anger which has been covered already I would say that the production on Iron Maiden's Virtual XI is bloody awful in all respects. The drums sound like cardboard boxes... you can hardly even hear the kick. There are sloppy bits where the synths (which are far too loud) have have distorted in the mix, and they haven't bothered to fix it. The vocals needed another 20 takes each, Blaze is painfully flat. And the guitar tone is weak.

 

[Ermz]

yeah, i think a good production, engineering (getting tones) and mixing should be done by the same person for best results. there is no room for error if you want perfection, and these processes go hand in hand with each other and they really should be integrated into the same process.

Many top-tier producers *choose* not to engineer simply because the multi-tasking leaves their creative abilities/attunement impaired. Having to consider both the technical aspects of a recording, as well as the creative, isn't exactly something that goes hand-in-hand.

Consider that you're producing a record. You've spent many days now in pre-production, re-arranging songs, sorting out overdubs, harmonies etc. The band have just recorded the drums and rhythm guitars on the first track and you've noticed two things:

1) The guitar tone isn't fat enough. The recto needs some tubescream lovin', and you're considering that blending it with another amp too for the choruses may be the go.

2) There is something odd about the vocalist's delivery and note choice during the verses.

Now, being the producer, considering that your goal at the moment is to get those songs sounding just right, would you really want to go into the live space and waste hour fooling around with the guitarist, pulling tones, while the rest of the band bummed around doing nothing, or would you rather be working with them and the vocalist to try and create some 'magic' in the verse?

Can you see the benefit in having a tracking engineer there who is in tune with you and will 'know' what you mean when you say 'those guitars are sounding too small, how about we beef them up a bit, and maybe even add in another two tracks during the chorus'. He can go off and deal with the challenge of 'fattening up' the guitars, and also working out what amp he thinks will complement the recto during the choruses.

Very dumbed-down scenario, I guess, but I just wanted to outline why many in the top-tier, who can afford it, choose not to engineer and produce at the same time. You simply multi-task too much and don't bring your A-game to every aspect of the project. I frequently find myself over-extended when doing both. So what I attempt to do is work through the band's music beforehand, simply playing through some demos at home and writing down aspects that I think need tweaking. Once all that is sorted, the studio becomes a much more technical endeavor, as most of the creative aspects have been sorted out. It rarely goes off without a hitch though, so I find myself scrambling for the producer's hat mid-session, which can be hard at times, especially when you're fixated on how things are sounding from a purely aesthetic POV.