the most profound expressions of antichristianity in metal

[einride]

The point is that there isn't salvation. If you seek salvation you side with Christ, if you seek to undermine that salvation and "spit on Christ’s redemption" you side with Satan. Dig?

you said "turn to the same book for salvation". that's why i thought you were implying there is salvation in the devil -- that's honestly not a huge leap of logic to make since, well, that's what you bloody well said!

 

[EricT]

Gah. Suffering and bliss are relative terms defined in relation to your beliefs, as James Hetfield wrote so eloquently, "One man's fun is another's hell." Besides, don't you think that Satan might want to take care of his own?

What if his idea of taking care of his own is shoving you in a room with Halford? That's the kind of care I can live my eternity without.

 

[EricT]

I hope we have advances on cryogenics soon. I wanna freeze myself at the age of 35 and thaw in the year 4500... just so I can see what religion has evolved into then. That and space hookers. Maybe SNL will be funny again by then...

 

[Hell Mike]

Besides, don't you think that Satan might want to take care of his own?

Now why would he/she/it?

 

[skeptik]

Teeth in flesh, red deep
Dead on the floor
Your lord consumed by rats
Twenty hundred years now
Why the fuck can't you forget him?

Eating His flesh
And drinking His blood
I pray for total death

 

[J.]

great argument here:

Rip the sacred flesh
Sodomize the holy asshole
Drink the red blood of the mother of earth
Masturbation on the dead body of christ
The king of Jews is dead
and so are the lies
Vomit on the host of Heaven
Masturbate on the throne of God
Break the seals of angels
Drink the sweet blood of Christ
Taste the flesh of the priest
Sodomize holy nuns
The king of Jews is a liar
The Heavens will burn
Dethrone the son of God
God is dead
Holyness is gone
Purity is gone
Prayers are burned
Covered in black shit
Rape the holy ghost
Unclean birth of Jesus Christ
Heaven will fall
Fuck the church
Fuck Christ
Fuck the Virgin
Fuck the gods of Heaven
Fuck the name of Jesus

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

 

[Evil?]

If you do believe that whore biblical mumbo jumbo though, whats the point of siding with Satan? Suffering for eternity doesn't exactly sound great when compared to "eternal bliss". Actually, it sounds pretty fucking stupid to do so.

This argument can get tricky becasue according to many religious scholars suffering for eternity is just not the case. Essentially during the final judgment, those who beleive will b brought to heaven, while those who do not are left on earth to burn while it is destroyed. But then, you die. Hell is not an eternal place. The real punishment is not eternal torment but permanent separation from God. The reward for faith is eternal life is it not? How much sense would it make then if the punishment was also eternal life? When ya think about it, I think I would rather die than live forever. That would get mighty fucking boring after a while me thinks. Like it was said before, eternity is a mighty long time. If you follow this train of belief, believing in Satan and accepting death in the stead of eternal obedience doesn't seem so silly.

 

[Vittra]

Gah. Suffering and bliss are relative terms defined in relation to your beliefs, as James Hetfield wrote so eloquently, "One man's fun is another's hell." Besides, don't you think that Satan might want to take care of his own?

Satanism often praises strength of the individual and free-will above any God. The only person to worship is one's self. If you are not strong enough to stand on your own, you would likely not be considered worthy by Satan in many belief systems anyways. He certainly would not take care of you.

Anyways, I'm in complete agreement with einride on this. Christian Satanism is as ridiculous as Christianity itself. Other then some misguided attempt at rebellion (which is essentially: do the opposite of what is "good"), what purpose does it truely serve? You may consider yourself as living on the opposite side of their spectrum in terms of your values and beliefs, but you are still bound by the chains and close-minded thinking that is Christianity. You acknowledge it as your opposition. You live in their world. Their rules.

True freedom comes from relieving yourself of the shackles that is belief.. religion.

Although I obviously reject religion vehemently (not necessarily spirituality, as I seperate the two), I do find things such as Luciferianism or Chaos-Gnosticism pretty interesting to read about.

In terms of metal, I don't think there are any bands that really approach the subject in an intelligent or meaningful way. DsO comes close, but comes off as pretentious rather than genuine. Generally, bands that take a more Nihilistic or Spiritual approach are usually more intriguing and interesting. The denial of God without blatantly bashing or insulting him lends a much more subtle and powerful form of expression. It is also ironic (and humorous), that Christianity itself can be affixed as a Nihilistic belief. It really is quite interesting how nihilism permeates all aspects of life, not simply religion. It is both rational and irrational.

Anything from Agalloch, to Bilskirnir, to Rapture, can present an intereting (and different) ways to opposite Christianity without being blatant. The mocking nature of Kneel to the Cross by Sol Invictus is also pretty good, though it is not metal of course.

Bilskirnir, being one of my more recent listens, had one song specifically stick with me, likely because the lyrics were in english:

"To reach for the ancient land in the ultimate of north
Where pride and purity led to nobility
Idealism as the highest order
In accordance to natures eternal law of life
All falsehood unable to conquer our minds
Omnipresent was the god within ourselves

Suddenly... materialism became part of our lives
So the unity was disbanded
Soon we forgot about our inner voice
Man's instinct overcome by superiosity

Violation of the immortal soul
By deafening the voice of blood
Mental enslavement of the mind
So the highest principles faded into unconsciousness
What once was pure and noble turned into mediocrity
From the pillars of civilization to spiritual decay

No blazing shine left in the eyes
Seemingly awake, yet already asleep
Will that slumber lead to everlasting death
or is fate going to be changed before?

If the divine spark in our soul
Is to become a rising flame once again
A new aristocracy, not of gold
But of spirit will rise again!

From the ashes of decay
A new union will evolve
The highest principle back in full-force
And idealism will lead us again to nobility..."

Obviously this deals with more than simply Christianity as it is referring to society and it's decay, but it is still relevant to the discussion at hand.

 

[skeptik]

I'm pretty sure most Christian Satanic lyrics are not serious aka merely used as an attack on Christianity by reversing the traditional roles, so I wouldn't discount all such lyrics from the discussion. How many of these people do you think actually worship devils and shit?

 

[Ellestin]

lyrics-wise Immolation usually make a good stand against Christians (not necessarily Christianity because they barely scratch the surface of metaphysics)

 

[einride]

This argument can get tricky becasue according to many religious scholars suffering for eternity is just not the case. Essentially during the final judgment, those who beleive will b brought to heaven, while those who do not are left on earth to burn while it is destroyed. But then, you die. Hell is not an eternal place. The real punishment is not eternal torment but permanent separation from God.

this, although i tend to think it's a recent cop-out by theologians over-eager to unify the image of a benevolent god with the idea of eternal punishment, that doesn't necessarily have support in the canonical writings, is the idea that makes the most "sense". but then, the same scholars would argue that permanent separation from god is in fact the ultimate punishment -- the mental torment by permanently knowing that you have willfully turned away from the right thing will be with you forever -- see "poena damni" from the catholic encyclopedia:

The poena damni, or pain of loss, consists in the loss of the beatific vision and in so complete a separation of all the powers of the soul from God that it cannot find in Him even the least peace and rest. It is accompanied by the loss of all supernatural gifts, e.g. the loss of faith. The characters impressed by the sacraments alone remain to the greater confusion of the bearer. The pain of loss is not the mere absence of superior bliss, but it is also a most intense positive pain. The utter void of the soul made for the enjoyment of infinite truth and infinite goodness causes the reprobate immeasurable anguish. Their consciousness that God, on Whom they entirely depend, is their enemy forever is overwhelming. Their consciousness of having by their own deliberate folly forfeited the highest blessings for transitory and delusive pleasures humiliates and depresses them beyond measure. The desire for happiness inherent in their very nature, wholly unsatisfied and no longer able to find any compensation for the loss of God in delusive pleasure, renders them utterly miserable. Moreover, they are well aware that God is infinitely happy, and hence their hatred and their impotent desire to injure Him fills them with extreme bitterness. And the same is true with regard to their hatred of all the friends of God who enjoy the bliss of heaven. The pain of loss is the very core of eternal punishment. If the damned beheld God face to face, hell itself, notwithstanding its fire, would be a kind of heaven. Had they but some union with God even if not precisely the union of the beatific vision, hell would no longer be hell, but a kind of purgatory. And yet the pain of loss is but the natural consequence of that aversion from God which lies in the nature of every mortal sin.

emphasis mine.

The reward for faith is eternal life is it not? How much sense would it make then if the punishment was also eternal life? When ya think about it, I think I would rather die than live forever. That would get mighty fucking boring after a while me thinks. Like it was said before, eternity is a mighty long time. If you follow this train of belief, believing in Satan and accepting death in the stead of eternal obedience doesn't seem so silly.

you assume that there is "eternal death" in the sense that most of us non-religious types believe in it -- i.e. when you die, there's NOTHING. that's not what most scholars mean when they say "separation from god" -- rather, they mean the "poena damni" scenario outlined above. and this is not a desirable thing. i do agree that even eternal life in heaven seems like an awfully fucking pointless thing and i do not understand those that seek it. even if it is a life in immeasurable bliss, still, what's the point?

what one needs to do, in my opinion, is break free from the framework of that entire belief system and joyfully "believe in satan" and "accept death" knowing that the scholars are wrong and that there is neither heaven nor hell. this is a very easy thing to believe in (occam's razor hard at work right here) but harder to prove.

 

[einride]

I'm pretty sure most Christian Satanic lyrics are not serious aka merely used as an attack on Christianity by reversing the traditional roles, so I wouldn't discount all such lyrics from the discussion. How many of these people do you think actually worship devils and shit?

many of the bands with lyrics like that actually claim to be adherents to a christian morality more or less completely reversed, which is something that i have never been able to understand. it's hardly practical on any level, and since i to some extent believe in natural morality (i.e. i do believe there are some parts of conventional morality that are inherent to every man, but i do not believe that implies it came from a "god") i tend to think this way of life (if possible, which it is not, because no man lives in complete reversal of christian values) can hardly result in any personal satisfaction for the adherent.

 

[Demilich]

I'm pretty sure most Christian Satanic lyrics are not serious aka merely used as an attack on Christianity by reversing the traditional roles, so I wouldn't discount all such lyrics from the discussion. How many of these people do you think actually worship devils and shit?

So you seem to be saying we should respect Christian Satanic lyrics because they aren't genuine and represent juvenile attempts at mocking the established order? Sounds like fun!

 

[swizzlenuts]

I thought every one that used Satan was just using it as a symbol of rejecting Christianity. And if they actually thought a deity existed, then it wasn't anything close to what Christians think of Satan; more or less, it's a new evil deity, kind of like Cthulhu or something.

 

[swizzlenuts]

I'm going to make a band now, and just use quotes from Robert Green Ingersoll.

He never said a word in favor of education. He never even hinted at the existence of any science. He never uttered a word in favor of industry, economy or of any effort to better our condition in this world. He was the enemy of the successful, of the wealthy. Dives was sent to hell, not because he was bad, but because he was rich. Lazarus went to heaven, not because he was good, but because he was poor

 

[General Zod]

Satan's origin lies in the Abrahamic faiths. Whatever level of believability you assign to those faiths, you would assign to Satan in like measure. However, to believe in Satan and not believe in one of those faiths, seems beyond silly. Equally silly, is to believe in one of those faiths and take from their respective texts that Satan will be the victor (in some Armageddon like battle).

As for the original question... I'll side with Divine Victim on this one. To look for profound religious criticism within the confining structure of a single song, seems fruitless.

Zod

 

[Arunas]

I'm not sure that it is something you're looking for here, but I like Ulvers job with William Blakes Themes...

Say this:
[plate 11]
The ancient poets animated all sensible objects with Gods or geniuses.
Calling them by names and adoring them with the properties of woods,
rivers, mountains, lakes, cities, nations, and whatever their enlarged and
numerous senses could perceive. And particulary they studied the genius of
each city & country, placing it under its mental deity; till a system was
formed, which some took advantage of,& enslav'd the vulgar by attempting
to realize or abstract the mental deities from their objects: thus began
priesthood; choosing forms of worship from poetic tales. And it length
they pronounc'd that the gods had order'd such things. Thus men forgot
that all deities reside in the human breast.

 

[Thanatopsis123]

Has nobody mentioned how eloquent The Project Hate is?

 

[einride]

I'm not sure that it is something you're looking for here, but I like Ulvers job with William Blakes Themes...

Say this:
[plate 11]
The ancient poets animated all sensible objects with Gods or geniuses.
Calling them by names and adoring them with the properties of woods,
rivers, mountains, lakes, cities, nations, and whatever their enlarged and
numerous senses could perceive. And particulary they studied the genius of
each city & country, placing it under its mental deity; till a system was
formed, which some took advantage of,& enslav'd the vulgar by attempting
to realize or abstract the mental deities from their objects: thus began
priesthood; choosing forms of worship from poetic tales. And it length
they pronounc'd that the gods had order'd such things. Thus men forgot
that all deities reside in the human breast.

okay you realize that this is verbatim from, you know, the actual william blake poem though

also i would hardly accuse mr. blake of "antichristianity"