the most profound expressions of antichristianity in metal

[Hell Mike]

Again, show me one Metal song, that in your words, "made an actual good, reasonably eloquent case against god."

I'm waiting...

Zod

Difficulty up one more notch, eh?

 

[General Zod]

Difficulty up one more notch, eh?

How so? I merely quoted him.

Zod

 

[Hell Mike]

How so? I merely quoted him.

Zod

I say no song exists, that makes a profound argument for anything.

Zod

Again, show me one Metal song, that in your words, "made an actual good, reasonably eloquent case against god."

I'm waiting...

Zod

Just illustrating, I'm not gonna get into this argument

 

[Demilich]

Why do all of the stupidest arguments on the internet seem to involve Erik?

 

[General Zod]

Just illustrating, I'm not gonna get into this argument

Ahhh... I see what you meant. Yeah... I wasn't attempting to up the anti with my most recent response, merely restating the topic set forth by the original poster.

Zod

 

[dorian gray]

Why do all of the stupidest arguments on the internet seem to involve Erik?

Because he's awesome?

 

[Ars Magna]

What is the audience? Are we talking an intelligent person or some tool sporting a Cradle of Filth shirt saying that female vocals are for pussies and don't belong in metal (this actually happened to me)?

 

[dorian gray]

pics or it didnt happen

 

[Ars Magna]

I don't have pics but I do have an editorial of sorts that I wrote for a zine based on my conversation. Let me see if I can dig that up.

 

[Ars Magna]

Here it is...written many years ago when I still went to shows regularly. Probably doesn't belong in this thread...maybe it does. These dudes would agree that a song could provide a profound argument against christianity.


What the hell is happening to my beloved metal community? Has everyone completely lost his or her mind? It’s a sad, sad day when some punk kid (I say ‘kid’, but he’s likely in his early 20’s) approaches me only to say “they fucking suck” while pointing to the shirt I’ve chosen to wear that evening. Stunned by such a comment and figuring that he must be a little too drunk to realize that he actually said what he did; I ignore the immediate urge to pummel the shit out of the clueless bastard with the inverted cross necklace he so skillfully crafted in shop class. Instead, I simply smile and ask “how so?” “First of all, that shit ain’t evil enough.” Apparently, he’s given this some thought. Maybe his seizure-like air drumming was just a front he was using to cover up the fact that he was planning an all-out verbal assault on the band in question. “This is a black metal show. There isn’t room for death metal here.” Considering this comment, and the fact that my new friend is wearing a Broken Hope shirt, my smile grows even wider. About this time, Mr. Metal’s friend approaches and asks what’s up.

(note: from this point forward, I’ll refer to Broken Hope guy as #1 and his friend as #2. Keep in mind, this is only an excerpt from the conversation. Left out are all of the references to various bands being “brutal death metal/unholy black metal” and the seemingly endless questions…”have you heard…” “did you like…” etc.)

#1: “We’re talking about this dude’s shirt.”

#2: “Yeah…it’s kick ass.”

#1: (scowling at #2) “Fuck that, they suck!”

#2: (clearly searching for a way to save face) “I know…I meant the shirt is kick ass. They suck though!”

Great minds think alike, I guess.

Happy to have found a respite from the downtime between bands (attending shows alone can be boring as hell), I forge ahead with the conversation.

Me: “You were telling me why they sucked.”

#1: “I don’t know, they’re just weak.”

#2: “Hell yeah, they’re weak…female vocals are for pussies. There’s no place in death metal for female vocals.” (This idiot is wearing a Cradle of Filth shirt…keep this female vocal comment in mind…it comes in handy shortly)

Me: “They have never used female vocals.”

#2: “Oh…well they seem like they would.”

They “seem” like they would? There’s the smile again.

Me: “You haven’t heard them before, have you?”

#1: (ignoring my question) “Like I said before…they just ain’t evil enough. Black metal…shit…metal in general is about evil…Satanism…the war against Christianity.”

#2 (pulling at his CoF shirt as to give me a better view): “Now this…this is fucking evil black metal.”

Me: “They are certainly good at what they do.”

#2: “They’re the best band in the world.”

Me (looking at #1 who is either deep in thought or on the verge of vomiting all over himself): “You think?”

#1 Remains comatose.

#2: “Fuck yeah! They bring it all together…the brutality, the sick vocals, the corpse paint, the insane guitar work, the keyboards, the female vocals…they rule supreme!”

Me: “I thought you said female vocals were for pussies and didn’t belong in metal.”

#2: “Yeah…but that’s different.”

Me: “How is that different?”

#1: “Dude…you like Manson, don’t you?”

Me: “Charles?”

#1: “Marilyn.”

Get a rope.

I think you get where I’m going. Do these imbeciles represent the majority of today’s fan base? I certainly hope not, but am starting to fear the worst.

One thing that kept rearing its ugly head during our talk was “evil” and Satan. Bonehead #1 tried to convince me, for close to five minutes, that Dimmu Borgir is “one of the most evil bands of all time. Totally devoted to satanic death.” I have farted more evil after a round of beer and chilidogs. Carrying on about Satan and wearing corpse paint doesn’t make you evil. “HAIL SATAN!” See? I’m not evil. Then again, I’m not wearing corpse paint. Maybe that’s where I went wrong (note to self: apply corpse paint before you hail Satan). Anyway, I enjoy some of Dimmu Borgir’s earlier material but they are, by no means, “one of the most evil bands of all time".

My point in all of this is that the ‘underground’ metal community doesn’t seem to be the elite, intelligent, informed brotherhood it once was. With every show I attend, I become more and more disgusted with what seems to be taking place. Appreciation for the music appears to be at an all time low. Crowds feel they deserve the performance they are witnessing. It’s almost as if they feel the band owes them something.

Take Satyricon, for instance. I had the honor of seeing them twice on their brief US tour for “Rebel Extravaganza” (and was the scene at which the aforementioned conversation took place). They were amazing live. Possibly better than I had expected. At both shows, the crowd stood silent when the band had finished their set. At one show, if it weren’t for my clapping and the slut next to me telling her man to get his "own fucking beer”, the place would have been silent. They expected the band to do an encore. What happened to the days when people went insane in the hopes of seeing the band perform a couple more songs? As more and more people attend these shows, standing silent save for the occasional, poorly executed, death growl, I can’t help but think that we’ve seen the glory days come and go. Then again, maybe I’m wrong. Maybe it’s just an Ohio thing…I don’t know. Assneck #1 might have known more than he appeared to. Maybe it is all about evil. Maybe these guys are on to something sinister. By remaining clueless and failing to show appreciation for these bands, they are revealing their true colors and giving us a glimpse of evil in its purest form: ignorance.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

black metal shows have some of the weakest fucking audiences ever. golf spectators show more enthusiasm.

 

[Hell Mike]

Lots of text and no mention of what shirt you were wearing, mr magna (Unless I'm blind)

 

[Crimson Velvet]

I seems to me, though, that looking poetic articulations in metal, and expect it to be on the same level as William Blake (<3) is silly and a waste of time. I always thought Burzum had a "profound message", as it were, yet as I looked at the lyrics to see if they would provide a decent example for this thread, I quickly realized they would not serve my point sufficiently. But that doesn't detract from the power in the music one fucking bit, because that is where the message is.

 

[einride]

I seems to me, though, that looking poetic articulations in metal, and expect it to be on the same level as William Blake (<3) is silly and a waste of time.

sure, i do not EXPECT this, but i believe that it is possible and desirable, and that the artist should aim at nothing less than mastery in every aspect. anyone who's thinking "i don't need to write well because after all i'm just writing metal lyrics" needs to urgently fuck off. do your best.

I always thought Burzum had a "profound message", as it were, yet as I looked at the lyrics to see if they would provide a decent example for this thread, I quickly realized they would not serve my point sufficiently. But that doesn't detract from the power in the music one fucking bit, because that is where the message is.

i'm sort of in the same boat. it's not that i suddenly don't think burzum has an important and "profound" (i'm getting sick of that word in this thread) message but maybe i was wrong to use the word "argument" because that's not usually what it's about.

so sorry zod, i guess i won't be posting an example because i can't think of a good one off the top of my head. you win, then, but i maintain that it is possible to make a solid case against (or for) something by means of poetic expression BUT without it necessarily constituting an argument.

Why do all of the stupidest arguments on the internet seem to involve Erik?

this is a GOOD argument you twat

if i wasn't here you would be whining about how there's no activity on the forum instead so sit down

 

[einride]

ars magna... your problem is you live in america.

 

[Hell Mike]

anyone who's thinking "i don't need to write well because after all i'm just writing metal lyrics" needs to urgently fuck off. do your best.

That said, not all lyrics need to (or should) be "deep" or make a case before or against something.
Personally I think

thieves and corrupts
now eleited priests
they selled pieces
of cloth saying it were yours
the chief of insanity
now is reigning at rome
the pervertion and evil
only start after you came

is more artistic than

Asleep within waves,
A cascade of snowstars

Suspended in a dozen decembers
...Crushing everything black

Angry Brazilian teens spewing out hatred and discontent carries more emotional depth and artistic expression, intentional or not, than Oregonian pretentious junkies.

Maybe not entirely relevant to this discussion and not as well put as it could be but I'm starving to near death and should be working so fux it.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

sure, i do not EXPECT this, but i believe that it is possible and desirable, and that the artist should aim at nothing less than mastery in every aspect. anyone who's thinking "i don't need to write well because after all i'm just writing metal lyrics" needs to urgently fuck off. do your best.

Agreed.

Also, like 90% of the POWAH comes from intent, not execution. Angry teens with an extreme conviction and dedication will imbue their music with more fire than any semi-intellectual pretentious wannabe poet faggot ever could in a hundred years. Which Hell Mike just proved.

 

[einride]

Agreed.

Also, like 90% of the POWAH comes from intent, not execution. Angry teens with an extreme conviction and dedication will imbue their music with more fire than any semi-intellectual pretentious wannabe poet faggot ever could in a hundred years. Which Hell Mike just proved.

of course but where honest intent meets skilful execution the very best things will happen

 

[Crimson Velvet]

Indeed, hence me agreeing with your earlier post. A perfect symbiosis of the two would be mind-blowing, but I don't think that has ever happened.

 

[einride]

somehow in the woods... "strange in stereo" pops up as an album that has things to say and knows exactly how to say them. hardly perfect, but very effective.