The new pic thread
- Thread starter Wolfman Von Jones
- Start date
no, but seriously. being fat is not an involuntary condition that must be pitied, such as - say - being blind, or without an arm*. it's more like being unemployed. if people want to lose weight, they generally can, provided they make an effort.
*of course, if a medical condition causes the extra weight it's different. but i'm assuming it's not the case here.
*of course, if a medical condition causes the extra weight it's different. but i'm assuming it's not the case here.
@hyena: and what do you know about how easy or difficult it is to lose weight? is the difficulty level the same for everyone? is everyone blessed with the same metabolism? do you know how big the effort is? have you ever been fat and tried to lose weight? how can you assume there is no medical condition? what if someone is unemployed because they have eg a mental illness?
just some questions that will hopefully make you think before you open your mouth next time. i generally like you, but your posts on this subject annoy me a lot. and for the record, in my eyes fat is a medical condition, voluntary or not.
@Ughi: but who caused the chaos? that's what we want to know!
just some questions that will hopefully make you think before you open your mouth next time. i generally like you, but your posts on this subject annoy me a lot. and for the record, in my eyes fat is a medical condition, voluntary or not.
@Ughi: but who caused the chaos? that's what we want to know!
rahvin
keeper of the flame
Well said. I generally agree that being fat is partly a disciplinary problem (experiencing it myself when it comes to running), but it's not as easy as that. Losing weight takes a lot of discipline both when it comes to sport and your eating plan and it's easily ruined.
So you assume that you would know it if someone was unemployed because of that? My bet is that you would just see an unemployed person.
And to answer to you more directly, no, a lot of times mental illness is not obvious.
Of course part of it is discipline and i'm glad to see we agree.Taliesin said:
To combine this^ with my reply to rahvin, what if someone gets fat because they're depressed? Don't things get more complicated?
In general it's easy to pass judgement on random people we don't know, but everyone should first try to pass judgement on themselves.
rahvin
keeper of the flame
Why do people always assume that opinions they don't share are blanket statements?
Examples of blanket statements are: "All fat people are lazy" ; "All convicted felons are criminals" ; "All unenmployed people just don't try hard enough" ; "Everyone should first try to pass judgement on themselves".
Not a blanket statement: "If people want to lose weight, they generally can".
The theory is that first-hand knowledge of each case of something is not necessary to draw statistical conclusions about the general behavior. It is, by all means, necessary to draw any conclusion about the single case. I wouldn't want to judge the situation of a specific unemployed person I've never met, so your remark is kind of meaningless: I don't assume I would know anything, I was just wondering if "mental illness" doesn't happen to fall precisely in the "medical condition" already mention as something that would clear from guilt. And I meant "obvious" as in it's obvious that a mental illness is a medical condition, not as in it's obvious when someone is mentally ill.
If you want to dispute the idea that first-hand experience is not the only grounds to pass judgement, by all means, go ahead. But you'll probably find yourself in a slightly worse situation when a single kleptomaniac robber gives all the other "regular" thieves a free get-out-of-jail card because you started from the most generous assumption about their level of responsibility.
"being fat is not an involuntary condition that must be pitied" = blanket statement.
Of course you, rahvin, might not want to judge the situation of a specific unemployed person and you wouldn't make assumptions, fair enough. But hyena, from whom this discussion started, stated that "of course, if a medical condition causes the extra weight it's different. but i'm assuming it's not the case here", so my comment is still relevant.
(i apologise for directing the above comment specifically to you by the way, i obviously misunderstood what you meant. plus the "i bet you.." phrase was meant a bit more generally, ie 'you' being 'most people who are easy to judge'. still, the point i was trying to make is that it doesn't matter if mental illness falls in the category that would clear someone from guilt or not, since most people wouldn't know it when judging him/her anyway).
As for statistical conclusions.... when a specific person posts a pic of themselves and someone else rushes to say "why is everyone in the pic fat", my first thought is not that it was a philosophical question that was aiming at statistical conclusions. My first thought however is a philosophical question on why is the second person insulting the first one, followed by a statistical conclusion that the second person must be either insensitive or drunk.
Of course you, rahvin, might not want to judge the situation of a specific unemployed person and you wouldn't make assumptions, fair enough. But hyena, from whom this discussion started, stated that "of course, if a medical condition causes the extra weight it's different. but i'm assuming it's not the case here", so my comment is still relevant.
(i apologise for directing the above comment specifically to you by the way, i obviously misunderstood what you meant. plus the "i bet you.." phrase was meant a bit more generally, ie 'you' being 'most people who are easy to judge'. still, the point i was trying to make is that it doesn't matter if mental illness falls in the category that would clear someone from guilt or not, since most people wouldn't know it when judging him/her anyway).
As for statistical conclusions.... when a specific person posts a pic of themselves and someone else rushes to say "why is everyone in the pic fat", my first thought is not that it was a philosophical question that was aiming at statistical conclusions. My first thought however is a philosophical question on why is the second person insulting the first one, followed by a statistical conclusion that the second person must be either insensitive or drunk.
rahvin
keeper of the flame
@Siren: I actually like it that you don't feel like you need to mince words, so no need for apologies if the discussion gets "heated". And I wasn't out to defend hyena's position - just like I didn't mean to defend Salmy's in the geek thread - so I'm not going to comment on what she thinks.
My main grievance is with people who abstain from judgement of any kind (almost, yes, philosophically) even if they have more than enough data to express an informed opinion, with the justification that they're never going to be sure 100%, or have a real full set of cases to base their judgement on. Partly I find that this attitude is very self-serving (trying your darnest not to take sides), and partly I just find it surreal and don't really believe that people can not judge (which would make their assurances or preachings hypocritical).
Your comments seemed to me to be along the lines of "Oh, you can never say that murderers are usually wrong because who knows what makes each of them do it!", which opens the gates to everything being right and wrong and both and neither. I believe it's perfectly ok to say that pedophiles are disgusting pigs, even if it's strongly debated that they do have a mental illness. Still, would I go the whole hog and say all of them? Every single one even poor autistic deaf-mute Uncle Bob who's lived in a cave with his mom until he was 58 and then sought comfort into the gentle if prepubescent arms of Little Mary who's only fourteen and then cried about it? I don't know, and I don't want to hear each and every sob story before making up my mind about something.
Then again, someone we both know and love (hint: Alfred) is a lot like that and it's not as if we fight about it, so don't think I'm actually mad at you.
And I wasn't out to defend hyena's position - just like I didn't mean to defend Salmy's in the geek thread - so I'm not going to comment on what she thinks.My main grievance is with people who abstain from judgement of any kind (almost, yes, philosophically) even if they have more than enough data to express an informed opinion, with the justification that they're never going to be sure 100%, or have a real full set of cases to base their judgement on. Partly I find that this attitude is very self-serving (trying your darnest not to take sides), and partly I just find it surreal and don't really believe that people can not judge (which would make their assurances or preachings hypocritical).
Your comments seemed to me to be along the lines of "Oh, you can never say that murderers are usually wrong because who knows what makes each of them do it!", which opens the gates to everything being right and wrong and both and neither. I believe it's perfectly ok to say that pedophiles are disgusting pigs, even if it's strongly debated that they do have a mental illness. Still, would I go the whole hog and say all of them? Every single one even poor autistic deaf-mute Uncle Bob who's lived in a cave with his mom until he was 58 and then sought comfort into the gentle if prepubescent arms of Little Mary who's only fourteen and then cried about it? I don't know, and I don't want to hear each and every sob story before making up my mind about something.
Then again, someone we both know and love (hint: Alfred) is a lot like that and it's not as if we fight about it, so don't think I'm actually mad at you.
Dark_Silence
Member
losing weight is not so easy if you want to do it efficiently.
If you lose too many weight in a really short amount of time, chances are high that you will gain it again really fast.
I dont think that really hard diet is good. You have to learn to eat a bit of everything, but not too much, ( and not too often for candies and the likes).
And sport also helps.
this is actually not based on personal experience, but what i have learned with people i know, who have tried many diets and in the end, never really loss weight, because they gained it all again after.
If you lose too many weight in a really short amount of time, chances are high that you will gain it again really fast.
I dont think that really hard diet is good. You have to learn to eat a bit of everything, but not too much, ( and not too often for candies and the likes).
And sport also helps.
this is actually not based on personal experience, but what i have learned with people i know, who have tried many diets and in the end, never really loss weight, because they gained it all again after.
La Rocque
I am that I am
What it comes down to in my way of thinking is
calling someone fat, is not friendly, in fact its hurtful
and shows a lack of parental guidance aka upbringing and empathy for others
hyena, do you remember what was said about you
when you posted your photo on SOT2?
calling someone fat, is not friendly, in fact its hurtful
and shows a lack of parental guidance aka upbringing and empathy for others
hyena, do you remember what was said about you
when you posted your photo on SOT2?
mmmkay.
this forum: it felt so empty without me.
1. seriously now. of course, my remark was meant to be a random internet insult, meant to be funny, with the general understanding that i was being stupid. otherwise i would not have adopted the 1337 syntax of no question mark. you all know that i can write properly. so if i speak like a teen on 4chan it's because i want to be funny. suwat didn't take offense. i didn't take offense when plintus suggested i was undergoing a sex change.
2. on the other hand, i stand by what i said about being fat. to answer your questions: yes i have some personal experience. when i left for england in the fall of 2000, i was 57 kilos. then i spent one year living on curries and beers. when i came back in the fall of 2001, i was 70. i was lazy until 2004: didn't exercise, kept on eating crap. then i got my ass to the gym, started devoting energy to cooking and eating well, moderated alcohol intake (yeah, i know, you don't believe this one.). i was back to 58 in something like a year - it was gradual, because i tried to make the process healthy and rational, it's not as if i stopped eating or started taking cocaine to avoid feeling hunger. right now i'm slightly overweight again, clocking it at 62-something, because i wholly dropped my aerobic exercise. it was a combination of back pain last year and preferring powerlifting, which gives plenty of excuses to eat a lot. i should be taking this weight gain seriously. i know i'm being lazy in not doing it. i will rectify soon.
3. it might well be that suwat or his friend have a medical condition justifying their weight, in which case i'm sorry and apologize to them in particular, not the general category of overweight people. i was going by statistical odds: i have been in the USA several times, and i have seen many fat teenagers. i doubt that all of them have medical conditions. i go with the idea that they don't make an effort. am i evil? i don't think so. i'm a smoker, but i don't take offense at people when they tell me that smoking is bad for me, or that i don't quit because i am lazy and inconsiderate. yes, that's exactly it. i don't feel like quitting. i don't go saying that, really, i am forced to be a smoker because addiction has taken a hold on me and i will never be happy again if i stop smoking.
4. i know that in the past i used to get annoyed at comments formulated on my pics, on SOT2, here, or wherever. i am, thankfully, over it due to a combination of factors.
5. siren, i'm not trying to pick a fight. i do like you as well, and believe it or not i also like most people on here, otherwise i would not have come back.
6. assorted evidence (read: work-related files saved more or less when my post was made) exonerate me from the accusation of being drunk at the time. however, i know that this suspicion is always to be taken seriously, so i did actually check.
this forum: it felt so empty without me.
1. seriously now. of course, my remark was meant to be a random internet insult, meant to be funny, with the general understanding that i was being stupid. otherwise i would not have adopted the 1337 syntax of no question mark. you all know that i can write properly. so if i speak like a teen on 4chan it's because i want to be funny. suwat didn't take offense. i didn't take offense when plintus suggested i was undergoing a sex change.
2. on the other hand, i stand by what i said about being fat. to answer your questions: yes i have some personal experience. when i left for england in the fall of 2000, i was 57 kilos. then i spent one year living on curries and beers. when i came back in the fall of 2001, i was 70. i was lazy until 2004: didn't exercise, kept on eating crap. then i got my ass to the gym, started devoting energy to cooking and eating well, moderated alcohol intake (yeah, i know, you don't believe this one.
). i was back to 58 in something like a year - it was gradual, because i tried to make the process healthy and rational, it's not as if i stopped eating or started taking cocaine to avoid feeling hunger. right now i'm slightly overweight again, clocking it at 62-something, because i wholly dropped my aerobic exercise. it was a combination of back pain last year and preferring powerlifting, which gives plenty of excuses to eat a lot. i should be taking this weight gain seriously. i know i'm being lazy in not doing it. i will rectify soon. 3. it might well be that suwat or his friend have a medical condition justifying their weight, in which case i'm sorry and apologize to them in particular, not the general category of overweight people. i was going by statistical odds: i have been in the USA several times, and i have seen many fat teenagers. i doubt that all of them have medical conditions. i go with the idea that they don't make an effort. am i evil? i don't think so. i'm a smoker, but i don't take offense at people when they tell me that smoking is bad for me, or that i don't quit because i am lazy and inconsiderate. yes, that's exactly it. i don't feel like quitting. i don't go saying that, really, i am forced to be a smoker because addiction has taken a hold on me and i will never be happy again if i stop smoking.
4. i know that in the past i used to get annoyed at comments formulated on my pics, on SOT2, here, or wherever. i am, thankfully, over it due to a combination of factors.
5. siren, i'm not trying to pick a fight. i do like you as well, and believe it or not i also like most people on here, otherwise i would not have come back.
6. assorted evidence (read: work-related files saved more or less when my post was made) exonerate me from the accusation of being drunk at the time. however, i know that this suspicion is always to be taken seriously, so i did actually check.
@Siren: Oh, I'd like to know that too!! When I woke up it was already like that. The entire appartment was like that. Satan was here. Obviously.
Nikki
Member
just partying.
you mean the place is messed up and it's not my fault this time???
Sweet.
Nikki
Member
Yeah... your body's metabolism is not the same as everyone else's. I have to work out and eat ok because even though I'm naturally not heavy, my work keeps me idle and I can gain weight. But not eating right is what really causes you to stay overweight. You gotta have some willpower with regards to foods, because some things are just not good for you.
Working out, of course, is the other big deal. You can eat more irresponsibly if you do a lot of running or cardio in general (which is what I do, since I have a hard time giving up some fatty foods, like cheese!).
It's said that you can't naturally decrease body fat percentage after you reach certain age (with normal metabolism and shtuff), so you get pretty much stuck with that minimum for the rest of your life. Some study said that.
Ye naive fuck.
Ye naive fuck.
Yes, you can.
I mean, you can't have a whole pizza for dinner every night even if you run every day, but you can have 2 slices for lunch once a week if you count your calories. =)Similar threads
