The News Thread

[rms]

By not being part of an organization does not disqualify an act of violence of being terror, but it does diminish its possibility of "islamic" terror or "christian" terror or whatever. It's just an act of terror then. All of the attacks that i'm aware of, that are cited as "islamic terrorism," are at least verbally backed by Islamic Terror Group.

Why are you being so irresponsible to put white supremacists with Christianity? And why do you not even defend the choices you made to put people as Christian terrorists? Why are you wasting our time?

 

[Krow]

White people dont do horrible shit and blame it on their religion. (Surely, at least not so often.... Unlike some OTHER people) People just want to twist it that way because they need to be politically correct towards the peaceful Muslims who's sons are preparing to blow themselves up. But she dindu nuffin tho.

 

[CiG]

I love how you're just lumping white terrorist actions in with Christianity.

How many of these incidents claimed it was in the name of Christianity?

 

[crimsonfloyd]

I'm sorry, but it's really obvious that most of you are uneducated on the history and ideoligy of White Power movements in America. These groups are tighly tied to extreme forms of Christianity. So if it seems like I am conflating the two, it's because that very conflation is fundamental to their idenity. This is a great article that explains how Chrisitian Idenity movements (as well as neopagan movements) have been deployed within White Power ideology.

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/24/beh...ment_working_toward_the_battle_of_armageddon/

But please, don't try and pass off your lack of education on the history of Chrisitianity and racism in the US as me manipulating facts.

As for the anti-abortion terrorists, i.e. Army of God, they're about as explicit of a religious terrorist organization as you'll find.

 

[CiG]

I grant you Army Of God and I'm fully aware of the connection between Christianity and white power terrorism, but you cited individual actions too.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Your book argues that virtually every white supremacist group in America has been profoundly influenced by a movement and ideology called Christian Identity. This, you say, is the case even if they don’t realize it or, like Dylann Roof, may never have heard of it. Can you give us a working definition of what Christian Identity is?

lol. Is there a term for the opposite of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy?

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Yes, and with the possible exception of Timothy McVeigh (who fluctuated between calling himself a Christian and an agnostic), they were all influenced by white power movements, including their extreme Christian elements. Wade Michael Page discussed "holy race wars." Dylan Roof was a devout Christian and while he doesn't explicitly connect his crimes to his religion, everything he said about "race wars" is straight out of the Christian Identity handbook--which is the source of most of the White Power ideology crap found online. This isn't rocket science. The only reason one wouldn't see the connections is because he doesn't WANT to see the connections.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Timothy McVeigh was influenced by white power movements? Last I checked he was primarily influenced by a libertarian/anti-government ideology. Might as well call every white, non-leftist political terrorist a member of the "Christian Identity" simply due to the USA being, you know, filled with white Christians.

 

[arg]

there are very little preventative measures we can do about white americans who kill people, because they're american citizens who were born and raised here.

but we should do EVERY preventative measure we CAN do about terrorists coming INTO the country from OUTSIDE.
- if we don't let refugees in, no terrorists get in. plus we don't waste money on taking care of them.
- we should also stop the visa waiver program for european countries because obviously there are a lot of arab muslim terrorists with european passports.

yammering on about "hurr durr there's white terrorists too" solves nothing. focus on what we CAN do.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Timothy McVeigh was influenced by white power movements? Last I checked he was primarily influenced by a libertarian/anti-government ideology. Might as well call every white, non-leftist political terrorist a member of the "Christian Identity" simply due to the USA being, you know, filled with white Christians.

I just said with the exception of McVeigh. Although, it does provide evidence against the idea of racial profiling to find terrorists.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

there are very little preventative measures we can do about white americans who kill people, because they're american citizens who were born and raised here.

but we should do EVERY preventative measure we CAN do about terrorists coming INTO the country from OUTSIDE.
- if we don't let refugees in, no terrorists get in. plus we don't waste money on taking care of them.
- we should also stop the visa waiver program for european countries because obviously there are a lot of arab muslim terrorists with european passports.

yammering on about "hurr durr there's white terrorists too" solves nothing. focus on what we CAN do.

We went over this already. Most immigrants are kids and seniors. They go through rigorous screening processes. As long as the process is done with fidelity, the immigrants who come are not a terrorist threat.

However, there's no point in arguing with you. You are an open racist and are incapable of having even the semblance of objectivity on the issue.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I just said with the exception of McVeigh. Although, it does provide evidence against the idea of racial profiling to find terrorists.

You made the exception based on religion but continued along the line of race, which implied you still believed white supremacy was his main motivator. The point still stands that Islamic terrorism is more unified than Christian terrorism today.

 

[arg]

We went over this already. Most immigrants are kids and seniors. They go through rigorous screening processes. As long as the process is done with fidelity, the immigrants who come are not a terrorist threat.

There's no reason to bring even the ones who are not terrorists here.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Nah, nothing wrong with picking the best. Take the doctors and other wealthy Syrians, leave the rest to Europe to deal with.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

There's no reason to bring even the ones who are not terrorists here.

It's part of the basic fabric of our nation and the principles we stand for. As someone who stands for nothing, you wouldn't understand.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

You made the exception based on religion but continued along the line of race, which implied you still believed white supremacy was his main motivator. The point still stands that Islamic terrorism is more unified than Christian terrorism today.

Fair enough. Remove McVeigh from the lost. The rest of the examples and the larger point still hold.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yeah, like Dylan Roof belonging to a political movement he wasn't even aware of by that author's admission. How many of these types are even anti-Semitic as apparently required by the 'Christian Identity'? Plenty of right-wing Christians are Zionists as well. Yeah, in many you can find a central link of online interest in white supremacy. You can also do the same for contemporary Slavic neo-Nazis, the irony there obvious of course. They're all white people, they're all violent, they all have political motives, but they aren't organized outside of very small, local pockets. Islamic terrorism is not comparable.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

I agree it's not as organized. On the other hand, it's more pervasive in the US. These are two very different "movements" with very different origins and culprits. My point has never been to say that they are equivocal.

 

[arg]

Nah, nothing wrong with picking the best. Take the doctors and other wealthy Syrians, leave the rest to Europe to deal with.

They are picking the most costly to support and the most useless.

 

[arg]

It's part of the basic fabric of our nation and the principles we stand for. As someone who stands for nothing, you wouldn't understand.

The principles that Obama stands for. Not the principles of many average Americans or those mayors and congressmen. He's gonna be replaced in a year and none of the leading candidates are for mass refugee intake.