The Odyssey vs. Paradise Lost

[Thudd]

Did you actually hear someone from the band say this or is it your own theory?

It's my own theory, although I have been known as one to overanalyse! True or not though it works for me.

 

[Frontal Lobotomy]

Okay : ) Yeah anyway he hasn't said anything about that for sure.

Even if it was true, Russel has always had a way of doing aggressive vocals before PL, but it was different, and a lot better in my opinion.

The Odyssey has plenty of harsher vocals but they are very well done and sound a lot more convincing than on PL.

I just listened to The Odyssey all the way through a bit ago. There is so much maturity felt in the songs it's amazing. And I don't see anything wrong with the lyrics at all. Also Romeo's solos are still creative and full of emotion.

The biggest thing that stood out to me though, was how amazing Russel's vocals are on The Odyssey. His style seems perfected, which makes me absolutely shocked and saddened to hear his vocals on PL and Iconoclast (live 3 songs). His new vocals are so amateur it's just dumbfounding. Someone who has a distinct style and a great voice suddenly changes to sound more like someone on American Idol. I have no idea what happened other than Russel just running out of ideas. Which in that case, he isn't really to blame.

I just think it's such a bad move. It's like he started over with his voice and song writing skills.

Nearly every aspect of Paradise Lost is lacking when compared to The Odyssey to me. Though I agree with what some people have said in regards to PL being better than most music these days. While true, I still cannot enjoy the album personally.

Yes he has: the interview from Sweden Rock and another one generally about the change in his singing style that I can't remember off the top of my head. I think it was one on this forum actually. He's also said some stuff off the public record that I happen to know about

I don't think his vocals are worse, just different. He still does his thing better than most out there. Maybe he doesn't even have a choice. If the music is progressing towards a more aggressive style, he needs to sing more aggressively to keep a good fit. And it is a good fit, in my opinion. It's just that the music is not as mindblowing as it used to be. And....Sorry I can't think, there's a very angry chick right outside my window arguing on her phone with her boyfriend.

 

[Progbass]

His new vocals are so amateur it's just dumbfounding. Someone who has a distinct style and a great voice suddenly changes to sound more like someone on American Idol. I have no idea what happened other than Russel just running out of ideas. Which in that case, he isn't really to blame.

I just think it's such a bad move. It's like he started over with his voice and song writing skills.

Have to add to this. If you listen the part The Prophet Cry of DWOT for example, now I would say his rough singing style sounds a bit amateur here.
But in Odyssey and also PL he has been improving with it, doesn't sound so "forced" anymore. I don't see anything amateur about his new vocals, he just tries different things.

 

[_Gentleman of_the Snow_]

American Idol contestants are usually quite fastastic singers...

 

[Postulate]

If anything, Russell Allen's voice has only gotten better since the 'classic' trilogy. I don't think anyone in the genre has a better set of pipes. It's more what he chooses to sing than his skill level that bothers people. I would agree that in DWoT he sounds not amateur but not as good as on PL, where he's just phenomenal. But I still prefer his singing on DWoT because what he's singing is way more interesting. Was there anything on PL that even came close to the vocal entry, "There was a time, when choirs sang the endless melody...etc."? Nah.

 

[Prog is King]

The Odyssey, despite being inferior to V or other earlier works, is my favorite album of all time. PL ranks pretty low in how it stacks up to their whole discography in my opinion. Despite that, it's still better than 99% of all other music.

V is my favorite album of all time but I don't think The Odyssey is inferior at all. Just a little different.
I've said the same thing about Paradise Lost. Not the best of Symphony X but better than what most bands can produce.

Off topic, that looks like a shot of Buster Posey, the reigning MLB Rookie Of The Year from my favorite
team. The World Champion SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS!!!

 

[Prog is King]

If anything, Russell Allen's voice has only gotten better since the 'classic' trilogy. I don't think anyone in the genre has a better set of pipes. It's more what he chooses to sing than his skill level that bothers people. I would agree that in DWoT he sounds not amateur but not as good as on PL, where he's just phenomenal. But I still prefer his singing on DWoT because what he's singing is way more interesting. Was there anything on PL that even came close to the vocal entry, "There was a time, when choirs sang the endless melody...etc."? Nah.

To me, Russell has the best voice of anyone in ANY genre. He was born with, as you say, a great set of pipes. What an apt definition. And he has learned to use his voice like a fine instrument. I agree that his choice of style on certain songs is just that. A choice and not the result of diminishing skills. There isn't anything vocally on PL that comes close to what's on Divine Wings, but I still love PL. Although the vocals are in Russell's rough voice, The Sacrifice has its moments. The passage that you quote, A Gathering Of Angels (Pt. lll) is indeed beautiful. That, The Wrath Divine (Pt. lV) and Paradise Regained (Pt. Vll) are my favorites. Russell's vocals on the live version of Candlelight Fantasia are also beautiful, especially the chorus.

 

[Islandstone]

Was there anything on PL that even came close to the vocal entry, "There was a time, when choirs sang the endless melody...etc."? Nah.

I love that part! It's so emotional, Russ' singing,with the piano and guitar playing parts of the awesome main theme behind. I especially love the 5/4 bars; Pinnella's (as always) godlike piano playing coming through, and Romeo playing that beautiful arpeggio. Just fabulous. I prefer the live version of Divine though; the build-up in studio is too fast,unlike live which has more "space". At the same time I think the rest of the studio version is too slow. So,live ftw

 

[Weston]

I love that part! It's so emotional, Russ' singing,with the piano and guitar playing parts of the awesome main theme behind. I especially love the 5/4 bars; Pinnella's (as always) godlike piano playing coming through, and Romeo playing that beautiful arpeggio. Just fabulous. I prefer the live version of Divine though; the build-up in studio is too fast,unlike live which has more "space". At the same time I think the rest of the studio version is too slow. So,live ftw

I couldn't agree more. Someone said in response to me criticizing PL and Iconoclast's lyrics that Symphony X has always had sub par lyrics. I can't see how that was ever the case. The older albums have superb lyrics and deal with really emotional stuff.

 

[mad_taffer]

I have to disagree with this line of thinking.
The singer has to sell the story for it to be believable.
If you are singing as satan, and remember that satan is angry, then you have to take on that role.

I view Paradise Lost as being a very theatrical album and the harshness of most of the music reflects the tone of the poem and of the anger satan feels towards man. It only makes sense for Russell's voice to reflect that anger. He is, after all, playing a dark role. The whole album has a sense of menace to it, and the dark vocals just add to the intensity and rage. Honestly, I would almost compare it more to rock opera in a sense.

 

[Marwen]

I have to disagree with this line of thinking.
The singer has to sell the story for it to be believable.
If you are singing as satan, and remember that satan is angry, then you have to take on that role.

I view Paradise Lost as being a very theatrical album and the harshness of most of the music reflects the tone of the poem and of the anger satan feels towards man. It only makes sense for Russell's voice to reflect that anger. He is, after all, playing a dark role. The whole album has a sense of menace to it, and the dark vocals just add to the intensity and rage. Honestly, I would almost compare it more to rock opera in a sense.

V was very theatrical too but it had a most interesting/deep story. I can't see how Satan being hateful and angry at man can be any interesting to anyone these days.

Except maybe for Paradise Lost and Sacrifice, the lyrics are lame, especially considering the fact that symphony x wrote some very beautiful material in the past, and I mean including their darker stuff (songs like Fallen, Eyes of Medusa, or even something like Wicked). It just almost always has that Symphony X elegance we all love.

Based on the 3 songs I've heard so far, Iconoclast seems to be pretty much on the same level as PL lyrics-wise. Still hoping the rest of the songs will have higher quality lyrical content, but looking at the song titles, I am not holding my breath.

 

[Detective Clarence Beauregard]

I love that part! It's so emotional, Russ' singing,with the piano and guitar playing parts of the awesome main theme behind. I especially love the 5/4 bars; Pinnella's (as always) godlike piano playing coming through, and Romeo playing that beautiful arpeggio. Just fabulous. I prefer the live version of Divine though; the build-up in studio is too fast,unlike live which has more "space". At the same time I think the rest of the studio version is too slow. So,live ftw

Beautiful section; one of Symphony X's strongest, for sure! I would also prefer the live version, but I don't like how they end the song with the YYZ-type thing. Kills the whole vibe of the song for me. The album's ending was so perfect, with the keyboard bells and all. Epic.

V was very theatrical too but it had a most interesting/deep story. I can't see how Satan being hateful and angry at man can be any interesting to anyone these days.

I agree; the whole Satan and "good versus evil" thing is so overplayed in metal. V was original and interesting; I like the mythological theme of it with Atlantis and Egypt and all that stuff. I love their material based on mythology, though, especially the Greek stuff. I also greatly enjoy MJR's obsession with Poe stories; I hope there's more Poe-inspired lyrics and themes (e.g. King of Terrors, most of The Dark Chapter) on Iconoclast, but I'm not holding my breath. I also recall Lepond saying a long time ago that he had ideas for some Lovecraft-inspired lyrics, but I guess that never materialized. Bummer.

Based on the 3 songs I've heard so far, Iconoclast seems to be pretty much on the same level as PL lyrics-wise.

"Bring out the switch, you son of a bitch!"

 

[PurpleDink]

We know this is a concept album being the story of Paradise Lost as the band have stated.

/buzzer goes off

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McAeQiLmEYU&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Postulate]

To me, Russell has the best voice of anyone in ANY genre.

Maybe, but I hesitate to say it because there are so many singers I love. I would say in metal as a whole ICS Vortex gives him competition, and in prog as a whole Peter Nichols does.

 

[Prog is King]

ICS Vortex

Wow! Another discovery for me. Arcturus sounds great. What else do you recommend?

 

[Postulate]

Wow! Another discovery for me. Arcturus sounds great. What else do you recommend?

With Vortex? Not sure - for such an amazing vocalist, he's not too prolific. He sang for a separate band Borknagar and did some tracks with Dimmu Borgir, but I'm not crazy about those bands. Within Arcturus, he sings on all of Sideshow Symphonies, which is easily my favorite for the band...that whole record just oozes with his glorious voice.

As for similar vocalists, maybe Lars Nedland? He's got a somewhat similar post-black metal thing going on, much more restrained than Vortex but still strangely hypnotizing - definitely another vocalist whose voice has a unique quality you can't get anywhere else. He sings for Solefald, but I like him even better with Age of Silence...on this record his voice is drone-like and constantly layered. The whole thing is just weird and amazing.



Closest I can get, I think. Music is also similar to Arcturus in many respects.

Oh and make sure you don't miss this Vortex gem