The Political & Philosophy Thread

[CiG]

Most of the most horrendous parts of American history is synonymous with the history of the Democratic Party.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Until Reagan came along.

 

[CiG]

Can what he did really be compared with slavery, opposing abolition of it and the formation of the KKK?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The KKK only killed a few thousand people. Reagan's war on drugs has killed at least hundreds of thousands.

 

[CiG]

Do you mean killed by police or are we talking about the victims of the criminal organizations that exist because recreational drugs are illegal?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The latter, although there are still a number of people murdered by cops in the course of the war on drugs, as well as many more falsely incarcerated for decades over drug charges.

 

[CiG]

As much as I agree with you and oppose said war, drug dealers and drug users can choose not to be involved with drugs, whereas a black person couldn't avoid a lynching by choosing to be a different race.

But in the end, fair counterpoint I guess.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The social conditions that lead people to become drug-affected aren't by choice. Certainly addiction is not simply a choice. Removal of choice, creating a black market and high crime conditions for those not even directly involved with drugs is not a choice. Cops planting drugs on a person is not a choice.

Most KKK lynchings were a result of accusations of crime or attempts to exercise the right to vote, not for simply being black. Blacks in the South had the "choice" to self-segregate and avoid white people, or to intermix and risk being lynched.

 

[CiG]

The social conditions that lead people to become drug-affected aren't by choice. Certainly addiction is not simply a choice. Removal of choice, creating a black market and high crime conditions for those not even directly involved with drugs is not a choice.

Drug addiction impacts all levels of society, it's just that poor people aren't priviliged enough to rise above the war on drugs like some coke-snorting CEO is.

I disagree though, choice is always involved when it comes to what you put into your body.

Cops planting drugs on a person is not a choice.

That goes without saying.

Most KKK lynchings were a result of accusations of crime or attempts to exercise the right to vote, not for simply being black. Blacks in the South had the "choice" to self-segregate and avoid white people, or to intermix and risk being lynched.

What about the black churches which were attacked? You really can't help it if you're in your own community and people travel to you to commit violence against you. That's rather absurd.

 

[The Ozzman]

choice is always involved when it comes to what you put into your body.

While I agree, sometimes one needs help to stop. Once you stop, though, it is definitely of your own volition to start again.

 

[viewerfromnihil]

Most of the most horrendous parts of American history is synonymous with the history of the Democratic Party.

Go suck Dinesh D'Souza's cock. Anybody with an inkling of regional dynamics in American political history knows better.

I get that repeating utter false-hoods from right-wing provocateurs has a way of making one feel above the fold and instills some sense of superiority, but in reality it just makes you look like a fucking idiot.

 

[CiG]

While I agree, sometimes one needs help to stop. Once you stop, though, it is definitely of your own volition to start again.

Once you start you might need help to stop, but whether you start or not in the first place is a choice.

Go suck Dinesh D'Souza's cock. Anybody with an inkling of regional dynamics in American political history knows better.

I get that repeating utter false-hoods from right-wing provocateurs has a way of making one feel above the fold and instills some sense of superiority, but in reality it just makes you look like a fucking idiot.

#triggered

It doesn't take much to feel superior to the Democrats and I say that as someone who has never been a fan of the Republicans. I just think it's interesting that all these white leftist Democrats constantly try to guilt-trip Americans with their country's past but never confront their own party's past.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Addiction is by definition a state in which a person loses at least some ability to control their behavior. Further, Reagan's war on drugs encouraged addiction through inability to have addiction treated (people with money aside).

The planting of drugs is done by cops because of incentives for arresting perceived criminals. It's absolutely a fault of the war on drugs.

Goers of those black churches had the "choice" to move their church elsewhere.

 

[The Ozzman]

Go suck Dinesh D'Souza's cock. Anybody with an inkling of regional dynamics in American political history knows better.

I get that repeating utter false-hoods from right-wing provocateurs has a way of making one feel above the fold and instills some sense of superiority, but in reality it just makes you look like a fucking idiot.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

#triggered

It doesn't take much to feel superior to the Democrats and I say that as someone who has never been a fan of the Republicans. I just think it's interesting that all these white leftist Democrats constantly try to guilt-trip Americans with their country's past but never confront their own party's past.

fwiw, there has been an ideological division between Northern Democrats and Southern Democrats since approximately the party's existence. Obviously the Northern ones tolerated Southern actions well into the 60s, but it is true that for much of our history, we were more divided by geography/state region than by party.

 

[viewerfromnihil]

#triggered

It doesn't take much to feel superior to the Democrats and I say that as someone who has never been a fan of the Republicans. I just think it's interesting that all these white leftist Democrats constantly try to guilt-trip Americans with their country's past but never confront their own party's past.

Any white leftist Democrat worth their sticks checks their own internalized racism as often as it comes up, and confront's their own party's racism as well. Does it come up as often as it should in the press? No, because the's currently a flagrant racist leading the other party from the White House.

 

[Einherjar86]

Addiction is by definition a state in which a person loses at least some ability to control their behavior. Further, Reagan's war on drugs encouraged addiction through inability to have addiction treated (people with money aside).

The planting of drugs is done by cops because of incentives for arresting perceived criminals. It's absolutely a fault of the war on drugs.

Goers of those black churches had the "choice" to move their church elsewhere.

I find it interesting that you're sympathetic to the inability of drug addicts to make a choice due to the conditions which led to their addiction, but not sympathetic to the conditions of racial disparity in the American South (and North, let's be fair) that made it extraordinarily difficult for blacks to exit white society.

 

[CiG]

Addiction is by definition a state in which a person loses at least some ability to control their behavior.

I know I'm a former addict. But that impact of addiction isn't a factor until you're addicted and you don't become addicted the first time you try something. It involves successive choices before this factoid is even relevant.

Goers of those black churches had the "choice" to move their church elsewhere.

Former slaves had the choice to migrate to Africa, therefore [insert justified violence against them here].

fwiw, there has been an ideological division between Northern Democrats and Southern Democrats since approximately the party's existence. Obviously the Northern ones tolerated Southern actions well into the 60s, but it is true that for much of our history, we were more divided by geography/state region than by party.

Was there really much of an ideological division between northern and southern Democrats?

Any white leftist Democrat worth their sticks checks their own internalized racism as often as it comes up, and confront's their own party's racism as well. Does it come up as often as it should in the press? No, because the's currently a flagrant racist leading the other party from the White House.

lol if you say so.

 

[rms]

but not sympathetic to the conditions of racial disparity in the American South (and North, let's be fair) that made it extraordinarily difficult for blacks to exit white society.

i thought this tale was that blacks left and didn't find it better, not that they couldnt leave

 

[CiG]

How does one exit white society but remain in a western nation?