The power of Alternative 4

[requiem]

Originally posted by mehdi.i.e.e.e

i don't care if people like boys bands, posers, jazz or grindcore. i consider all of these styles as art - that's all. you're a bit elitist, aren't you?

My aim wasn't to be elitist. I was just trying to give you the academic definition of art; and I'm reasonably qualified to give that, I suppose. I'm not trying to be a smart arse... sorry if it came across like that.

And I haven't studied an instrument or painting.

I was trying to show that, at least academically, art has cloudy boundaries, but boundaries nonetheless.

 

[mehdi.i.e.e.e]

Originally posted by requiem
My aim wasn't to be elitist. I was just trying to give you the academic definition of art; and I'm reasonably qualified to give that, I suppose. I'm not trying to be a smart arse... sorry if it came across like that.

that really was the impression i had from your posts, i'm glad i was wrong

And I haven't studied an instrument or painting.

then shut up will you!
no no i'm kidding

I was trying to show that, at least academically, art has cloudy boundaries, but boundaries nonetheless.

boundaries to art are limits to creativity, consciously giving yourself limits to what you could understand [not even like, only understand] is the shortest way to get intolerant. i hope you don't get mad each time someone tells you he/she loves rap or britney spears take it easier - if someone loves Arseshit Toys...errr...sorry, i mean the Backstreet Boys, then who cares?

peace,
mehdi

 

[Don Corleone]

sorry, guys i dont get to be online as much 'cause i started working...now it seems, ive got some catching up to do.

Originally posted by mehdi.i.e.e.e


what has greed to do with music? i don't care if metallica want to sue the whole earth, as long as they play music i like.

thats the point where our thoughts, ideas and feelings diverge, mehdi. you dont care about metallica being greedy, but i do. and very much indeed...at the point of writing them letters and e-mails!

i totally agree on the fact that metallica's behaviour has been pretty disgusting these last few years, and but i'm not supposed to tell them how to behave [i'm not their mum for those who doubt], so disagreeing with their behaviour choices won't prevent me to enjoy their artistic choices.

well, if you are not supposed to tell metallica how to behave, then who is? you are the fan, right? and metallica, supposedly, cares about their fans, right? sooo...draw your own conclusion...


and about being an artist...well, for me, anyone who produces something that triggers certain emotions in another is doing art. but the paramount point there is some artists never die, and some are destined to be forgotten. for instance, people still buy pink floyd's albums from the seventies...thats 30 years! but does anyone ricky martin's albums from 1999? does he release box sets or digipacks? could he? i hope i get my message across. *exhale*

 

[mehdi.i.e.e.e]

Originally posted by Don Corleone
thats the point where our thoughts, ideas and feelings diverge, mehdi. you dont care about metallica being greedy, but i do. and very much indeed...at the point of writing them letters and e-mails!

i don't see the point in writings email that'll never be read or cared about. i don't bother for things i can't change.

well, if you are not supposed to tell metallica how to behave, then who is?

themselves. you don't own them. sad but true [ho ho ho].

you are the fan, right? and metallica, supposedly, cares about their fans, right? sooo...draw your own conclusion...

please, no curse words will you, don't call me names . i hate this 'fan' word, it sounds like 'groupie' or 'hysterical school girl'. i love[d] their music, that's all. i don't care about their thoughts or their underpants color. Slayer are nazis, it doesn't prevent me to buy their album. The Cranberries' singer is a racist slut, still i think 'No Need To Argue' is a dead good pop album. i love the music, not the people.

and about being an artist...well, for me, anyone who produces something that triggers certain emotions in another is doing art. but the paramount point there is some artists never die, and some are destined to be forgotten. for instance, people still buy pink floyd's albums from the seventies...thats 30 years! but does anyone ricky martin's albums from 1999? does he release box sets or digipacks? could he? i hope i get my message across. *exhale*

barbara streisand, lionel ritchie or madonna did release these kind of fancy boxes, whereas some very gifted underground artist will never do. so this success/remembrace thing has nothing to do with being a 'true' artist or whatever. i see this more as a matter of luck.

peace,
mehdi

 

[pagan2002]

if you hate the word fan then you definately think too much. dont bother denying it, its obviously true. you've also got too much time on your hands. get a job! (joke)

 

[requiem]

Originally posted by mehdi.i.e.e.e


i hope you don't get mad each time someone tells you he/she loves rap or britney spears take it easier - if someone loves Arseshit Toys...errr...sorry, i mean the Backstreet Boys, then who cares?

But that's not what we're debating. I'm not saying that the stuff I like is art and the stuff someone else likes isn't!

To be honest, I don't mind some rap and I couldn't care less if anybody likes Britney or pop in general (my girlfriend, for instance).

There are a hell of a lot of artists out there who I don't like. That was never the point of any of my posts, so I hope you don't construe it as such.

I'm trying to say that art is art, and it doesn't rely on whether people like it or not. Surely you aren't suggesting that something is art because a group of people like it?

Because that would once again mean blurring the definitions of art and entertainment. This is a very important thing to understand, rather than just saying, "everything's art" and be done with it.

 

[mehdi.i.e.e.e]

Originally posted by pagan2002
if you hate the word fan then you definately think too much. dont bother denying it, its obviously true.

well, of course i can't and won't deny i LOVE the music. but i don't worship the people who create the music. of course i like to meet the bands or get my albums signed or whatever, but i won't kneel down before Tori Amos. but i don't mind kneeling down before 'Little Earthquakes' and the common meaning of fan today is a person who worships music+artist -> that's not me

you've also got too much time on your hands. get a job! (joke)

don't worry, actually i'm at work right now. but i'm trying to change so it doesn't matter if i get fired from here moohaha :evil:

peace,
mehdi

 

[mehdi.i.e.e.e]

Originally posted by requiem
But that's not what we're debating. I'm not saying that the stuff I like is art and the stuff someone else likes isn't! To be honest, I don't mind some rap and I couldn't care less if anybody likes Britney or pop in general (my girlfriend, for instance). There are a hell of a lot of artists out there who I don't like. That was never the point of any of my posts, so I hope you don't construe it as such.

no no no you don't get me, of course that's not what i meant. but what i meant is that you seem very scornful about some genres and some artists and then you're scornful about people who like them - that's what i don't like in your posts mate. it seems that you feel scornful about peope who loves Shakiraa, Jennifer Lopez or Ricky Martin, and that's not fair. am i wrong?

I'm trying to say that art is art, and it doesn't rely on whether people like it or not. Surely you aren't suggesting that something is art because a group of people like it? Because that would once again mean blurring the definitions of art and entertainment. This is a very important thing to understand, rather than just saying, "everything's art" and be done with it.

but entertainment is art too! i'm not denying there're differences between Cannibal Corpse & Michael Jackson, or between Radiohead & Puff Daddy. but then again, there's no TRUE art and FALSE art [or entertainment or call it whatever you want]. it's just different aims and different audience. and then again - who cares?

peace,
mehdi

 

[Don Corleone]

Originally posted by mehdi.i.e.e.e

i don't see the point in writings email that'll never be read or cared about. i don't bother for things i can't change.

well i do, and so far -except metallica- every single fucking artist that ive written to has responded to me: mikael akerfeldt (opeth), yossi (orphaned land), duncan patterson...you see i dont get to write that much, but at least these artists showed the courtesy to write back. and others like danny here, or anders nyström on the katatonia board or mikael on the opeth forum always drop by to chat with their fans (but of course, when i call danny "a true friendly musician" for doing this, he calls me silly, dammit.) anway...

please, no curse words will you, don't call me names . i hate this 'fan' word, it sounds like 'groupie' or 'hysterical school girl'. i love[d] their music, that's all. i don't care about their thoughts or their underpants color. Slayer are nazis, it doesn't prevent me to buy their album. The Cranberries' singer is a racist slut, still i think 'No Need To Argue' is a dead good pop album. i love the music, not the people.

the wod "fan" may have such connotations in your mind, but a fan is the follower of an artist, be it music, painting, drama, etc. yes, i agree with you, slayer, burzum, etc have some fascist views, nietzsche's nihilist views dont entice me, etc but i still love these artists. i admire their work. but this doesnt prevent me from taking the time to criticize their behaviors, attitudes and debating with people who accept those views that ifind "wrong" - just like im doing right now. and this is a good thing. this fun. without any diversity, and conflicts, life would be reeaaaaally boring.

barbara streisand, lionel ritchie or madonna did release these kind of fancy boxes, whereas some very gifted underground artist will never do. so this success/remembrace thing has nothing to do with being a 'true' artist or whatever. i see this more as a matter of luck.

so, this proves that those pop artists WERE indeed good in their own genre. people did appreciate their work. and whether an underground artist can or cannot release box set doesnt change the fact that a band like pink floyd is a legend that sells after even thirty years.

 

[mehdi.i.e.e.e]

Originally posted by Don Corleone
well i do, and so far -except metallica- every single fucking artist that ive written to has responded to me [...]

yeah yeah, what i meant is that Metallica will never reply to you. of course you can expect answer from Katatonia, Opeth or Dunc, but, no offense, but they aren't Metallica. so i won't bother typing an email none will read or care about.

the wod "fan" may have such connotations in your mind, but a fan is the follower of an artist, be it music, painting, drama, etc. yes, i agree with you, slayer, burzum, etc have some fascist views, nietzsche's nihilist views dont entice me, etc but i still love these artists. i admire their work. but this doesnt prevent me from taking the time to criticize their behaviors, attitudes and debating with people who accept those views that ifind "wrong" - just like im doing right now. and this is a good thing. this fun. without any diversity, and conflicts, life would be reeaaaaally boring.

yes totally. but i think i take it easier than you. i don't write emails to Kerry King because he wrote 'Angel Of Death'.

so, this proves that those pop artists WERE indeed good in their own genre. people did appreciate their work. and whether an underground artist can or cannot release box set doesnt change the fact that a band like pink floyd is a legend that sells after even thirty years.

did i ever say PF weren't good artists? but what i'm sure is that there's a lot of artist who could get as much success but who never will, because of their lack of luck. what i meant is that success has nothing to do with talent or skills.

peace mate,
mehdi

 

[pagan2002]

will you lot fucking drop it?

 

[bane]

calm yourselves down lads !!! did anyone see our beloved bands position on the all time top 100 in "terrorizer" magazine this month,fuckin 88, umm hello but thats utter ballocks,paradise lost rated ahead of them along with some others i cant remember,i was going to use its pages to wipe my arse with until i remembered i actually liked the mag and the fact that id payed good cash for it !!

 

[discouraged1]

art and ideology are two different things.

you can like a band for ideology, but how will you (be able to) know (feel?) it is art?

 

[yourdeadgroom]

Originally posted by bane
did anyone see our beloved bands position on the all time top 100 in "terrorizer" magazine this month,fuckin 88, umm hello but thats utter ballocks,paradise lost rated ahead of them along with some others i cant remember

And rightly so, PL has had more of an impact on the metal scene than Anathema (I prefer Anathema over PL any day though) as far as I can tell. And they have been the more promenant band out of 'The Big Three tm' , so I would say that's a fair assessment. I don't really like the mag anymore though, the current reviewers have different tastes than mine.....

 

[Don Corleone]

mags suck ass.

 

[LoboUivante]

DIscussions concerning Metallica and Paradise Lost always end with injuries

 

[Mariner]

Do you already know ho is going to play bass on metallica's new album?

yeah right, that one, Jason Newsted.

But Jason told them, that Echobrain is priority. Well, he did that well: one of the reasons he quits metallica is that he may not have any influence on the music, that he may not write a song for metallica (well he did, but it never is played...) and that he may not have a sideproject (remember Flotsam & Jetsam, he would have continued with it, or was it something else he wanted to do besides metallica)

Well, now he has his sideproject! (But which one?)

 

[requiem]

Originally posted by bane
did anyone see our beloved bands position on the all time top 100 in "terrorizer" magazine this month,fuckin 88, umm hello but thats utter ballocks,

It sure is... Just like last year when Katatonia's latest album wasn't included in the top 40, while 'Tonight's Decision' made it to number 3 in 1999.

I've gone off the magazine lately, as well.