Metal head87
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- Jul 17, 2006
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We still live in a society. You can't go around stealing and cheating people just because you won't go to hell for it.
The Religion Thread.
- Thread starter Blacken the angel
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RashomoN
Eran
well.....not me.....
but don't forget that the society you're talking about, came after the monotheism as we know it today.....
when the first holy bible was written, the society was compeletly different.
the biggest irony of the world we are living in, is that all the holy books talking about killing as playing god's role, therefore forbidden......but most of the greatest wars today as well as in history, are about religion.
but don't forget that the society you're talking about, came after the monotheism as we know it today.....
when the first holy bible was written, the society was compeletly different.
the biggest irony of the world we are living in, is that all the holy books talking about killing as playing god's role, therefore forbidden......but most of the greatest wars today as well as in history, are about religion.
paradoxile
Den Sista Ljusbäraren
ok...
my personal belief based on my and other people's experiences is like so:
It's been shown that under hypnosis people(including myself) saw lives of people who lived centuries ago...I would just like to add that I listened to the hypnotist recording once with eyes open to make sure there are no planted memories in there...also every time I went under the same hypnosis I saw the life of a different person in a different time.
This (at least on my part) supports reincarnation...which contredicts both eternal damnation in hell or eternal bliss in heaven. Therefore heaven and hell do not exist and neither does Satan.
God or as atheists would like to call "all plains of existance in the universe" strive to maintain a certain ballance from the micro to the macro and it's also seen in non physical plains as ballance between right and wrong, between good and bad and so for souls there is Karmatic ballance...this means(in combining with the reincarnation) that if you did something wrong then you will learn your lesson(and this doesn't always mean punishment) because your soul strives for the ballance.now lessons which weren't learned in this lifetime move to the next one. surely same goes for treating other people kindly and recieing in return the one thing ever person wants: money!...just kidding it's happiness in this life and if not then in the next.
as for what happens between lifetimes...when you die...the soul goes into trial reflecting on the past life and accordingly plans the next one in synchronization with other souls...now it takes quite some time for the soul to be reborn as some of the the souls a soul is supposed to interact with are still in the world of the living...also the soul after passing away watches over "relative" souls in the world of the living...something that has been described as a guardian angel.
that's the cosmic idea of the faith in general.
but the whole point of this faith is you don't have to accept this as the absolute truth or as the truth at all
two of the most important principals of the Church of Humanity are:
a. You and you alone define your relations with God/The Universe
(this includes not believing in the existance of god)
this also means you as a human are compelled to study your own relations with god(that's the only way you can define them) rather than accept blindly or by force the faith of others.as will not force your faith upon others by any means.
b.(which is derived from a) the forbidding of any kind of leadership within the faith.
the idea of this faith is that everyone is equal and everyone counts including the founder of the church. so that no one on his own has full power because power corrupts even the best and most decent in humans.
this means that the articles in the church rulebook are not constant and may be changed after a member in the church suggests a revision or an altenative with the proper reasons and all members vote for this idea and if there is a majority of 70% of members then the rule will be changed.
the idea is that members of the church vote for an idea for the good of humankind and not for personal interests.
my personal belief based on my and other people's experiences is like so:
It's been shown that under hypnosis people(including myself) saw lives of people who lived centuries ago...I would just like to add that I listened to the hypnotist recording once with eyes open to make sure there are no planted memories in there...also every time I went under the same hypnosis I saw the life of a different person in a different time.
This (at least on my part) supports reincarnation...which contredicts both eternal damnation in hell or eternal bliss in heaven. Therefore heaven and hell do not exist and neither does Satan.
God or as atheists would like to call "all plains of existance in the universe" strive to maintain a certain ballance from the micro to the macro and it's also seen in non physical plains as ballance between right and wrong, between good and bad and so for souls there is Karmatic ballance...this means(in combining with the reincarnation) that if you did something wrong then you will learn your lesson(and this doesn't always mean punishment) because your soul strives for the ballance.now lessons which weren't learned in this lifetime move to the next one. surely same goes for treating other people kindly and recieing in return the one thing ever person wants: money!...just kidding it's happiness in this life and if not then in the next.
as for what happens between lifetimes...when you die...the soul goes into trial reflecting on the past life and accordingly plans the next one in synchronization with other souls...now it takes quite some time for the soul to be reborn as some of the the souls a soul is supposed to interact with are still in the world of the living...also the soul after passing away watches over "relative" souls in the world of the living...something that has been described as a guardian angel.
that's the cosmic idea of the faith in general.
but the whole point of this faith is you don't have to accept this as the absolute truth or as the truth at all
two of the most important principals of the Church of Humanity are:
a. You and you alone define your relations with God/The Universe
(this includes not believing in the existance of god)
this also means you as a human are compelled to study your own relations with god(that's the only way you can define them) rather than accept blindly or by force the faith of others.as will not force your faith upon others by any means.
b.(which is derived from a) the forbidding of any kind of leadership within the faith.
the idea of this faith is that everyone is equal and everyone counts including the founder of the church. so that no one on his own has full power because power corrupts even the best and most decent in humans.
this means that the articles in the church rulebook are not constant and may be changed after a member in the church suggests a revision or an altenative with the proper reasons and all members vote for this idea and if there is a majority of 70% of members then the rule will be changed.
the idea is that members of the church vote for an idea for the good of humankind and not for personal interests.
written by who?..by men who were just like us.
It depends on how you define "greatest" , for example WW1 and WW2 were'nt about religions I guess.
paradoxile
Den Sista Ljusbäraren
the question is a little bit more complicated as morality is not universal.
some societies from particular times in history considered killing heathens as being moral because doing what they thought was god's will.
same thing apllies for the ultraorthodox riots against the pride parade in jerusalem a while ago...
paradoxile
Den Sista Ljusbäraren
the whole idea of sin is to instate fear of going against the faith's rules and validating those rules as god's will...and if you sin, you are punished which is sometimes a tool for learning the lesson and sometimes a pathetic substitute that in the great scheme of things doesn't serve any purpose...
just as an example: a rapist is caught and is sentenced for 20 years in jail.
after showing good behavior, the parole comittee cuts a third of his sentence and he's released after 13 years. 2 weeks after his release he rapes another woman...
punished yet lesson not learned...
now as I said earlier...when you define your relations with god...you are a sinner only if you go against that agreement and in that case you will feel guilt towards yourself for breaking your word to god and naturally would want to fix this by doing something good to set your conscience at peace.
if I use a court analogy then you are the law, the deffendant, the judge and jury all in one.
paradoxile
Den Sista Ljusbäraren
Muslims, Christians, Jews, Barbarians...you make your pick
if you look at it from a certain point of view:a Heathen is someone who's beliefs are different than yours...which is basicly every person except you.
and one thing they encourge you if you abstain from being a sinner you will have a reward , for example drinking alchol , having sex before marrige , cheating , steeling are all not allowed by the three religions(I assume) , yet if don't do these in your life you would be rewarded by heaven lol..
but in the after life there is no going back. for example if you lived for 24 years, then god took your life and you were a sinner and didn't beleive in him , are you going to pay an eternal price!! fuck.
maybe if you lived another year you would change your thoughts.
Yeah right heathen does not mean pagan necessarly as I thought, it has a wider meaning:
strange, unfamiliar, forigen.
paradoxile
Den Sista Ljusbäraren
I see you chose to completely ignore what I said about reincarnations and about sin.
I just said there is no after life...there is the next life of your soul in a different person(possibly even not on earth).
not believing in the relation you set with god is a paradox...it's basicly saying I don't believe in what I believe in.
moreover believing , just like wanting is not choice but more of a reflex.
you believe or want something when it has a certain appeal to you...same for not believing or not wanting something is about a certain something that is not appealing to you...
so now that I've shown believing is not a choice...can god punish you with eternal damnation over something you had no choice?
If you look at this Karmawise...basicly what goes around comes around...
so if you do something bad...you will get something equally bad done to you in this incarnation or in the next one.
so let's say for instance you murder someone...you ended his life then you are supposed to have something equally as bad done to you
this could mean that if the man you killed was supposed to live another 20 years then you will either suffer in someway for 20 years in this life or the next one or will be killed 20 years before your designated time of death in this lifetime or the next one but you must remember this: as there's reincarnation by ending that person's life you don't prevent him from being reborn next time moreover your next reincarnation could die by the hands of the reincarnation of the person you killed...
now I ask how can someone get punished for eternity when his crime is not eternal...it contredicts Karma
I just said there is no after life...there is the next life of your soul in a different person(possibly even not on earth).
not believing in the relation you set with god is a paradox...it's basicly saying I don't believe in what I believe in.
moreover believing , just like wanting is not choice but more of a reflex.
you believe or want something when it has a certain appeal to you...same for not believing or not wanting something is about a certain something that is not appealing to you...
so now that I've shown believing is not a choice...can god punish you with eternal damnation over something you had no choice?
If you look at this Karmawise...basicly what goes around comes around...
so if you do something bad...you will get something equally bad done to you in this incarnation or in the next one.
so let's say for instance you murder someone...you ended his life then you are supposed to have something equally as bad done to you
this could mean that if the man you killed was supposed to live another 20 years then you will either suffer in someway for 20 years in this life or the next one or will be killed 20 years before your designated time of death in this lifetime or the next one but you must remember this: as there's reincarnation by ending that person's life you don't prevent him from being reborn next time moreover your next reincarnation could die by the hands of the reincarnation of the person you killed...
now I ask how can someone get punished for eternity when his crime is not eternal...it contredicts Karma
suicidal4life
Member
can someone inform me about hasidism ? i think they live more orthodox kinda judaism right ? as i heard they have some exceptional rights in israil society. not going to army and not giving tax etc ? are these true , what are the reasons for this, does some israel citizens get pissed off because of this situation ?
suicidal4life
Member
btw that sabetai zwi thing and all the happenings afterwards seemed to me pretty interesting as well
Metal head87
Member
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Hasidism is an extreme orthodox form of Judaism. Basically, they are racist toward anyone that is not Jewish or anyone that is not orthodox (even with orthodox Jews, they're not too accepting if you're not crazy religious), they try and separate themselves from the world by sitting and learning all day long, dressing completely different etc. They try to enforce extremist, radical ideals on Jews, which goes against Judaism by the way (you're supposed to be strict on yourself, but lenient on others).
There are groups of them that are anti-zionism, even though some of them actually LIVE IN ISRAEL!
They do get out of the army, they get out of paying taxes, yet they have 15 kids per family.
Yes, the Israeli citizens despise them for the most part.
paradoxile
Den Sista Ljusbäraren
some of them do serve in the army and work not only sit all day and study the torrah...
one of my professors in university is Hassidic was in the army for about 20 years, a high ranking officer and with non religious duties...he commanded a base of communications and computers...he taught me data structures.
They don't serve in the army as part of an agreement they had with Israel's first prime minister David Ben Gurion in the 1950's when they were a very small minority(about 2000 people) but just as Jeremy said...they multiply like crazy having more than 10 kids each...they're not a majority but there's a hell lot of them now
one of my professors in university is Hassidic was in the army for about 20 years, a high ranking officer and with non religious duties...he commanded a base of communications and computers...he taught me data structures.
They don't serve in the army as part of an agreement they had with Israel's first prime minister David Ben Gurion in the 1950's when they were a very small minority(about 2000 people) but just as Jeremy said...they multiply like crazy having more than 10 kids each...they're not a majority but there's a hell lot of them now
suicidal4life
Member
thnx for the info. as far as checked the net this hasidism thing is not that old. formed few centuries ago. being anti-zionist is the most interesting part of the thing i guess.is it true that they do sex only for having children (and refuse all kinds of birth controls like condoms, pills etc - i even heard about special condoms for them which has little hole to get out the needed amount of sperm for ovary, and save the rest for help to the ones who needs !?!?!) and beware of every sexual pleasures.
paradoxile
Den Sista Ljusbäraren
birth control is forbidden in judaism
as for anti-zionism...I took a course in university about zionism and anti-zionism...
most people as did I don't know all the aspects of zionism and after taking this course I realized there are some things in zionism that I oppose too.
as for anti-zionism...I took a course in university about zionism and anti-zionism...
most people as did I don't know all the aspects of zionism and after taking this course I realized there are some things in zionism that I oppose too.
Metal head87
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I know that a lot of Nazism was actually influenced by Zionistic ideals.
Birth control is allowed when you use natural means. You're not allowed to use a contraceptive, like a condom or a pill, but you are allowed to eat or drink foods that will make your sperm less effective. Or you can find certain times when the woman will have more difficulty to get pregnant (I know you're not supposed to do it during her period and for a few days after).
Birth control is allowed when you use natural means. You're not allowed to use a contraceptive, like a condom or a pill, but you are allowed to eat or drink foods that will make your sperm less effective. Or you can find certain times when the woman will have more difficulty to get pregnant (I know you're not supposed to do it during her period and for a few days after).
paradoxile
Den Sista Ljusbäraren
when i said birth control I meant contraceptives
and you're right sort of right about the Nazism stuff...but it's a little different
Zionism war partially about the bond between the man and the land...therefore the jewish people have to find a land of their own where they can bond with the land.
The Nazis on the other hand said in order to bond with the land we must purify the men so the land doesn't get contaminated...basicly means remove the non germans from the land.
and you're right sort of right about the Nazism stuff...but it's a little different
Zionism war partially about the bond between the man and the land...therefore the jewish people have to find a land of their own where they can bond with the land.
The Nazis on the other hand said in order to bond with the land we must purify the men so the land doesn't get contaminated...basicly means remove the non germans from the land.
schivmeister
#1QVFan
hmm this new religion thing..its similar to Unitarian Universalism. Im part Unitarian Universalist 
One thing abt religion tho..a baby is always born into a family and is expected to follow the family faith, as if God stamped them beforehand. Hey wait thats exactly what some say..that God asks the baby which family it wants.
About the gay thing, one thing amuses me. If ur bisexual, ur straight partner would b lucky, no? How come wives file divorce when they find out their husbands are also gay? Shouldnt they enjoy 2 in 1?
One thing abt religion tho..a baby is always born into a family and is expected to follow the family faith, as if God stamped them beforehand. Hey wait thats exactly what some say..that God asks the baby which family it wants.About the gay thing, one thing amuses me. If ur bisexual, ur straight partner would b lucky, no? How come wives file divorce when they find out their husbands are also gay? Shouldnt they enjoy 2 in 1?
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