The World Trade Center, in New York, was just Kamikazied by airplanes!

[Mikael is God]

you are one of the most ignorant people i have ever seen in my entire life.... are you kidding me!!!???? You're telling me that i am a terrorist supporter!!! Are you fucking kididng me? first of all my parents pay to the government, i dont, second, unless they want to suffer and die on the street they HAVE to pay the government taxes.... you are one ignorant person!!!!

Attacking another civilian isnt to bring back the dead, but to put them in pain becuase nobody should be CELEBRATING!!!! i wouldnt do anything if they were just living a normal life!!

the USA has been the biggest war wager??/ Do you have your head screwed on right??? all america has done in the past 100 years is help other countries!!!! get your facts straight!!!

Yes USA helps only those who which we like... have you ever noticed that the people we ally with are GOOD countries??? Wake up man...


hypocrital? no... i think not.... nothing can be compared to what they have done, dont tell me im hypocritical


You, my friend, for some reason have this huge prejudice against americans "like me" - you should realize something, that it has absolutely nothing to do with being american, if being like i am is wrong at all in the first place, theres tons of people like this in every country, all over the world...... dont start bullshitting saying that its becuase we're american - your arguments are very ignorant and you are very ignorant.... you said we deserved it to happen, and for that i will not forgive you, nor will i EVER listen to any of your comments open mindedly

 

[luke]

Protocol and Jester
The argument of one life being equal to another is a valid one. However, I can't imagine your not having the slightest sympathy for those killed or wounded. The fact that you are aware of their deaths, and can repeatedly watch footage of things like people throwing themselves from windows to excape the flames and not feel for them or their families seems unbelievable.
If you look past your own political viewpoints, you will see that they are people, just like those in Iraq, Rwanda, or Yugoslavia. If you fail to recognize the value of thier lives, then arguing that their death is no different than others becomes a contradiction in your viewpoint.
I will refer you to the latest issue of Discover magazine (Sept. 2001) and the article entitled 'Our Emphatic Brain' It details a study made by neurobiologists which found that people imagine other people doing things, by first imagining themselves doing it, and then transferring the image to another identity. I'm sure that watching the tele would be noifferent than the stimuli used in their experiments. If you have failed to yet associate with those involved, it could be a sign that your brain is not wired in the same way the rest of ours are.
The fact that it was the 'World Trade Centre' hasn't yet registered I guess. Banks and businesses from every country were housed in that building. It's possible that some of your countrymen have been killed or injured. They repeatedly scroll the numbers of Japanese workers that are safe, and those hospitalized, as well unkowns across the television here. They released the name of a 20 year old traveller from southern Japan that was on one of the flights. I think your argument that Americans may have desevered it is null and void, seeing as it is not unilatera, and is unapplicable to a group of people consisting of many nationalities.

As I stated before, a lot of your other statements rung true, but if you were to avoid inflammatory statements, and remain impartial, they would be easier to accept as objective.

 

[Protocol]

I don't think you want me to post my reasons here, luke. If you find my earlier statement inflammatory, then I'm sure a perfect explanation would anger you even more. And you do seem quite angry.

I guess we see the world in different ways. I see many parts of your post that I discard as subjective, things that simply aren't true and a couple of insults and assumptions, and I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate me dissecting your post, so I'll refrain from that (unless you want me to?).

I will refute your point though: If all you wanted was for me to objective, you've misunderstood me completely. My post was a statement of opinion. I don't believe in objectiveness.

 

[luke]

Originally posted by Protocol
. And you do seem quite angry.

I see many parts of your post that I discard as subjective, things that simply aren't true and a couple of insults and assumptions, and I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate me dissecting your post, so I'll refrain from that (unless you want me to?).

I don't believe in objectiveness.

Angry is not the word for it, just baffled. I didn't mean to be insulting, but hey, read my signature. I don't take much to heart; the implication was that claiming to not be bothered by senseless deaths of innocents, and doing it so boldly, undoubtedly would be inciting a dispute. If you care to step in the ring, be my guest. Lack of objectivity will be your downfall, I asure you.

 

[Protocol]

Here we go then.

>The fact that you are aware of their deaths

Ah, but I'm not. It is not even possible for humans to be personally aware of more than a couple of hundred individuals (maximum pack size I guess), so in this sence an accident of 20 dead people and their mourning families would be enough to saturate any human mind who were to apply empathy to all those people.

No I don't believe all these angry people are mourning the dead like the relatives are. I think they're mourning their loss of safety.

>and can repeatedly watch footage of things like
>people throwing themselves from windows

No, I can't. They've been showing no such tasteless material on bbc world during the 20 or so hours I've followed it since the attack. The impatcs, certainly, the collapses, yes, people waving for help too, but no people jumping. I guess that's why bbc is world-famous for its high quality.

>you will see that they are people, just like
>those in Iraq, Rwanda, or Yugoslavia. If you fail
>to recognize the value of thier lives, then
>arguing that their death is no different than
>others becomes a contradiction in your viewpoint.

No it does not. I don't care much for the lives of people in Iraq, Rwanda or Yugoslavia either. And neither do the vast majority of those who are angry with this whole mess. A person dies every other second (or was it two?). There's just no way one person can be bothered with them all.

>people imagine other people doing things, by
>first imagining themselves doing it, and then
>transferring the image to another identity.

>If you have failed to yet associate with those
>involved, it could be a sign that your brain is
>not wired in the same way the rest of ours are.

I'm sure the study is quite correct, but as you said, it deals in _how_people_imagine_things_. I'm not trying to imagine these things. I am, in fact, trying not to imagine them at all, and managing it without much effort so far.

>The fact that it was the 'World Trade Centre'
>hasn't yet registered I guess.

There's a 'world trade centre' in Helsinki too. It's a rather ugly building.

>I think your argument that Americans may have
>desevered it is null and void,

I've said no such thing. That's your imagination playing tricks on you.

You accuse me of not being wired right and at the same time demonstrate this lack of understanding for the fact that humans are different - react different, feel different. Rather hypocritical.

 

[Sullen Jester]

You just showed us you are NOTHING more than they are. Here are some facts for you:

- The United States of America have supported worldwide terrorism for decades - the number deaths you Americans have caused FAR supercedes the number of people killed yesterday. Yet you have been dancing every day.

- Two wrongs don't make one right. No matter how you would punish "them" (whoever they are), that wouldn't bring any of the dead back.

- Any form of punishment aimed at any innocent people (were they connected to terrorists or not) will most probably just raise a new generation of suicide-hijackers.

All in all, the people like you who shout out stupid words before they think what they are saying, make me think that if there is any country in the world deserving what happened yesterday, it is your country.

-Villain


Ahh Villain!
He agree's with my point's of view (Not that I may of posted them...)

The American GOVERNMENT has supported and taken part in most terrorist actions in the last century. Now, Villain isn't blaming each and every American citizen for the tremendous loss of life the American State has caused, but he is saying you are an indirect cause, through inaction and financial support.
And two wrongs dont make a right. The American State may have caused this, through physical violence and political workings, but whoever carried this out should not have struck such a target, but instead taken an appropriate message straight to where it counts - taking the truth to the public, where we can actually make a change in this world, for a better cause.
Punishing the innocent majority will not support this cause, but create a breed of pissed off sentinents with the same idea in mind - punish the "opposing public".



>we've all been de-sensitized.

Yes but when? People have been fighting wars without caring much for enemies dying for quite some time now. And I'm sure you're not unaware that the u.s is THE enemy for many many people.

Ever since we turned on the TV, turned up the radio, listened to the government controlled media. I'm not saying ignore them all, just ignore what it is that makes you a slave.



I visited a swedish forum today and was really disgusted when I read some comments from a guy called Sakaraja. He meant that USA DESERVED this because what they did in WWII, Vietnam, South America etc.

On the other hand it makes me really happy to see so many of you people react on this awful matter.



Again, the AMERICAN STATE deserved justice, the PEOPLE didn't deserve death.



you are one of the most ignorant people i have ever seen in my entire life.... are you kidding me!!!???? You're telling me that i am a terrorist supporter!!! Are you fucking kididng me? first of all my parents pay to the government, i dont, second, unless they want to suffer and die on the street they HAVE to pay the government taxes.... you are one ignorant person!!!!

I suggest YOU should open YOUR eyes, and SEE the truth. Look around you, the world is sick and dying. Through EQUALITY, the human race can step in a FORWARD direction. No leaders, no superiors, but equals. EVERYTHING for the GREATER GOOD.
Our governments have been lying, cheating and stealing since the go. I suggest you tune into www.oneminutesilence.com . One of the biggest anti-capitalist bands I have heard, but their message is true. Check out the EDucation section, it will not fill you with lies of propaganda, but instead some insightful facts from Eddie Stratton, including what the military superpowers have been doing with your money, religion etc. etc.
YOU are the ignorant one here, by not only refusing to accept his words and analyse them for validity, but also blindly following someone else (The government) around without a second thought.
THINK for YOURSELF, don't be a slave!


the USA has been the biggest war wager??/ Do you have your head screwed on right??? all america has done in the past 100 years is help other countries!!!! get your facts straight!!!

Okay, here are the straight facts.
- USA has had a fair share of MADMEN at the throne, driving other countries into submission just to make money.
- USA has had major involvement in nearly all military actions in the past century, both direct and indirect, either taking part and blasting people on the battle ground or providing weapons and supplies for others, instead of solving the problem through LOGICAL and SOUND reasoning.
This is not a strike against the leaders of USA, but a wakening call to everyone here. All governments are for their own good, oppressing the masses for personal profit. Wake up!

Yes USA helps only those who which we like... have you ever noticed that the people we ally with are GOOD countries??? Wake up man...

How do you know their "good"? How do you know who the "bad" ones are?
YOU are being decidedly arseholish by this, saying that you are "superior" than those "bad" countries.
I curse pox on thee.





You, my friend, for some reason have this huge prejudice against americans "like me" - you should realize something, that it has absolutely nothing to do with being american, if being like i am is wrong at all in the first place, theres tons of people like this in every country, all over the world...... dont start bullshitting saying that its becuase we're american - your arguments are very ignorant and you are very ignorant.... you said we deserved it to happen, and for that i will not forgive you, nor will i EVER listen to any of your comments open mindedly

Well, your response make's you ignorant.



Please...accept the opinions of others FAIRLY, and don't analyse it on YOUR PERSPECTIVE.
Be LOGICAL, and don't reject everything by saying "you're wrong and I'm right, you're ignorant and I'm not". THAT is being ELITIST, and VERY IGNORANT INDEED.

Now, be nice.


Have a good one,
Sullen

 

[Orchid]

Originally posted by Protocol
There's a 'world trade centre' in Helsinki too. It's a rather ugly building.

Yeah it's ugly, like the majority of buildings humans have built. They might as well bombard that one down too.

I don't think there have been many bombings in Finland, right now I think of only ONE more serious car-bomb attack against the police headquarters in Pasila (a city sector of Helsinki).

Finland in general is like a goddamn sanctuary. Even today a tourist can forget his or her camera on a park bench and come get it half an hour later. People here should wake up and realize that humans are not particularly a nice bunch of people.


Anyway, I'm straying off my point. Protocol, keep your posts coming. I really enjoy them!

 

[Protocol]

Well, actually I think there are many nice buildings in Helsinki, although the 60ies pos I used to live in on Sepänkatu wasn't one of them.

The most serious attack in Finland I can think of is when they shot bobrikoff. ;D

 

[Orchid]

Hehe, I didn't say there aren't beautiful buildings here, they're just a bit scarce, I'm afraid.

You've lived on Sepänkatu? Well I'll be damned.. when did you move out?

 

[Protocol]

Winter -85/86 I think it was.

 

[Villain]

"you are one of the most ignorant people i have ever seen in my entire life.... are you kidding me!!!???? You're telling me that i am a terrorist supporter!!! Are you fucking kididng me? first of all my parents pay to the government, i dont, second, unless they want to suffer and die on the street they HAVE to pay the government taxes.... you are one ignorant person!!!!"

I was just saying you are no more innocent than any of us.

"Attacking another civilian isnt to bring back the dead, but to put them in pain becuase nobody should be CELEBRATING!!!! i wouldnt do anything if they were just living a normal life!!"

And WHAT GOOD DOES IT MAKE TO PUT THEM IN PAIN? Nothing. Can't you really see that?

"the USA has been the biggest war wager??/ Do you have your head screwed on right??? all america has done in the past 100 years is help other countries!!!! get your facts straight!!!"

The Sullen Jester already answered this, but I just tell you: America IS IN NO WAY BETTER THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY - in many ways it is worse. There's blood of MILLIONS of innocents in American hands and now you lost a couple of thousands - why should I cry for you?

"Yes USA helps only those who which we like... have you ever noticed that the people we ally with are GOOD countries??? Wake up man..."

Good countries? Like Iraq? America helped Sadaam for years. Osama bin Laden is also trained in terrorism by CIA. Good countries have not accepted American help.

"hypocrital? no... i think not.... nothing can be compared to what they have done, dont tell me im hypocritical"

But you are.

"You, my friend, for some reason have this huge prejudice against americans "like me" - you should realize something, that it has absolutely nothing to do with being american, if being like i am is wrong at all in the first place, theres tons of people like this in every country, all over the world...... dont start bullshitting saying that its becuase we're american - your arguments are very ignorant and you are very ignorant.... you said we deserved it to happen, and for that i will not forgive you, nor will i EVER listen to any of your comments open mindedly"

Yes, it is a fact that there are your kind of people in every country - they just don't lead any other civilized nations, unlike mad psychopaths like Nixon, Reagan, etc.

I agree that none of the people that died on tuesday deserved to die - I just say that America deserved it.

-Villain

 

[Sullen Jester]

Well, my friend, you have brought this on.

This here is a post made by JAY, one of the two moderators of the ONE MINUTE SILENCE website.

There is no denying that the events that occurred in New York and Washington yesterday were tragic in the extreme. However, as Lloyd has already pointed out, the greater tragedy is that this event would not have been so prominent if it has occurred in a developing country, where US and UK interests involve an element of detachment; separating our governments' deliberate murder and devastation of Eastern countries from our natural empathy here in the West.

If you cast your minds back to the first month of Bush Jnr's presidency, you might recall that one of his very first actions as president was to step up the continued bombing of Iraq. It was reported in the UK national newspapers as 'George W Bush claims his position on the world stage'. By bombing the fuck out of Baghdad? What the fuck!? If you're going to make your mark on the 'world stage' then surely you would garner the most support by executing an act of PEACE?

Anyway, I'm not totally surprised by the events which unfolded yesterday. It was bound to happen sooner or later; if the US insist on acting as an unwarranted global police force, then they have to expect a reaction to their 'policing'.

Here is an excerpt from a review of Bush's speech which I found quite interesting. It's taken from the Twin Cities IMC website (link to follow):

Bush begins by claiming that OUR freedom and way of life came under attack in the United States. He is quite right on the second point and somewhat off in the first point. Clearly, OUR way of life is under attack. New York could be considered the heart of global capitalism and the Pentagon the heart of its defense. Consider the following quote by noted pundit on global capitalism, Thomas Freidman,


"For globalization to work, America can't be afraid to act like the almighty superpower that it is. The hidden hand of the market will never work without a hidden fist. McDonald's cannot flourish without McDonald-Douglas, the designer of the F-15, and the hidden fist that keeps the world safe for Silicon Valley's technology is called the United States Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps. Unfortunately for most of the world, globalization means increased poverty, environmental destruction and decreased hope for a brighter future."
The United States Government has long meted out punishments to people across the globe. Whether it be by direct bombing campaigns (Iraq, Yugoslavia, Sudan, Afghanistan most recently) or by supplying weapons to aggressor nations (Turkey, Indonesia, Colombia, Israel all come to mind), it is directly involved in the death and destruction of innocents daily. The policies dictated by organizations heavily influenced by the U.S. (IMF, World Bank, WTO) also plunder people across the globe by forcing countries to privatize resources and slash social spending to pay back old debts. It appears to be payback time...

...The American way of life: cheap t-shirts from SouthEast Asia and South America, 2 refrigerators and 4 TV sets in each household eating up more wattage per house than typical villages anywhere else in the world, electricity provided by burning oil from friendly despots in the Middle East, and 3 cars per every 2 people opening holes in the Ozone layer.

These things must change.

Bush romanticizes the United States’ relationship to freedom. The United States did not invent freedom. It comes with being human. The United States when founded, simply oppressed certain colors of people in certain classes slightly less than other governments were known to. A tradition that largely continues today. Ask Arab-American citizens how they felt about their freedom here in the U.S. following the Oklahoma City bombing. Ask them how they feel about it when they walk into an airport. Ask anyone living in any large urban area how they feel when they see a police cruiser drive by. Ask women walking alone at night. The freedom that Bush knows is only shared by thin minority in this society...

.. Violence in this society is a result of the ruling class. It is a result of an unjust society. It is a result of a too few with too much and too many toiling too hard for too little. It is the result of a society that places such high values on material things and too little on humans. It is a result of capitalism. It is a result of the violence inherent in the state. It is a result of building prisons faster than public schools.

So long as the United States is the guarantor of global capitalism, it will be a target of those suffering from it. The governments of the world and the system of global capitalism are responsible for violence. They maintain an intolerable status quo.

- taken from Response to Bush's Speech, by Christopher Mitchell (peaceyo@disinfo.net)

I am very aware that the comments we make on this website will influence certain people to a certain extent, so I don't intend to go into any more detail at this point. However, I am going to provide you with some links to news coverage, starting with the IMC (Independent Media Centre) which should be the first place you look for slightly more objective news reports.

www.indymedia.org - Independent Media Centre
nyc.indymedia.org - New York City IMC
dc.indymedia.org - Washington D.C. IMC
Response to Bush's Speech - by Christopher Mitchell
twincities.indymedia.org - Twin Cities IMC
CNN.com - corporate owned, sensationalist media coverage
Yahoo News - collection of news resources
BBC News - reports, coverage, and some dodgy analysis and speculation
Short News - probably the most un-informative of all news sites at the moment!

Apologies that the message board is offline during all of this. It should be up again by tomorrow at midnight. It's just typical that something like this happens while we are preparing for a new message board...


You're living in a dream world. America, among others, is not a great place to be. We have madmen pulling our strings.
Wake up.
We can never be "free" with a system like the one we're in.
Fuck it.

 

[Orchid]

Thanks to Sullen Jester, I went to check the indymedia news site(s)

and come across this [yet unverified] claim:

"All around the world we are subjected to 3 or 4 huge news distributors, and one of them - as you well know - is CNN. Very well, I guess all of you have been seeing (just as I've been images from this company. In particular, one set of images called my attencion: the Palestinians celebrating the bombing, out on the streets, eating some cake and making funny faces for the camera.

Well, THOSE IMAGES WERE SHOT BACK IN 1991!!! Those are images of Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait! It's simply unacceptable that a super-power of cumminications as CNN uses images which do not correspond to the reality in talking about so serious an issue."

http://indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=63288&group=webcast

 

[Villain]

First answer, written in anger: With one sentence: USA deserved a terrorist attack BECAUSE THEY HAVE KILLED MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE! For that, USA deserves to be destroyed as a country just as Nazi-Germany was. I just don't want any American PEOPLE to die.

Go to the addres below and read the text. America is no better than the Soviets ever were.

http://serendipity.magnet.ch/cia/stock1.html

Now, a moment later, when I realized I'm no better than those other hateful people: Granted America has done a lot of good (actually very little good to Finland ever, but that's unimportant), but it also REALLY HAS DONE SOME OF THE WORST CRIMES OF MANKIND EVER! It is just that you Americans don't seem to know/realize/accept it. Do you really think that some movies can make for that you have destroyed entire nations just for your benefit? The Soviets paid their price, when is the Americas turn?

-Villain (against all terrorism - like that of the CIA)

 

[Opet]

Thanks to Sullen Jester, I went to check the indymedia news site(s) and come across this [yet unverified] claim: In particular, one set of images called my attention: the Palestinians celebrating the bombing, out on the streets, eating some cake and making funny faces for the camera.

Well, THOSE IMAGES WERE SHOT BACK IN 1991!!! Those are images of Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait! It's simply unacceptable that a super-power of communications as CNN uses images which do not correspond to the reality in talking about so serious an issue."

Woe. Those images alone are fueling the anger/hatred side in people. People talking about it, "Palestinians dancing in the streets." It's the part of the conversation when hatred and vengeance peek.

 

[Protocol]

Obviously someone wanted to start war when putting out that tape as 'palestinians celebrating the demise of wtc', but even without it I have no doubt cnn is the biggest propaganda-machine on earth.

Next up: Thank you for demonstrating your complete and utter ignorance, gotham.

>Finland, a country that is totally insignificant on the world
>stage (although I'm sure it's beautiful and a great place).
>do you think your country would've peacefully coexisted
>with the Soviets

The fact is, Finland did NOT peacefully coexist with soviet. It was invaded and fought back extremely ferociously, causing massive damage to the soviet troops. Soviet suffered far greater losses than Finland, but managed to occupy it still due to their overwhelming numbers.

It's only been 80 or so years since it was liberated, and before that they fought soviet oppression during the occupation for many years, shooting, among other people, a tyrannic general who wanted to completely integrate Finland with soviet.

Finnland has not caught up with the rest of Scandinavia in wealth until recently (a couple of decades) because of the humongous 'war damages' they were forced to pay to the soviet (yes, that's how badly soviet suffered from attacking them).

The u.s is NOT the only country in the world who fought soviet and made a difference. Such arrogance...

>None of the other countries in the world look to Finland for
>help, support, advice, or anything.

Had it not been for Finland and how they fought (and indeed even swedes and I think norwegians travelled there to fight the russians), the rest of Scandinavia would have been attacked next and the rest of Europe would have been in a considerably worse position.

>How about the advances that have come out of the US in the
>area of computer technology? What has Finland done to
>advance the Information Age? Does the computer you use have
>any American software or hardware?

ROFL! The IGNORANCE!

If you didn't happen to know, this guy called Linus Torvalds comes from Finland. He's the man behind an operating system called Linux, which is used in any number of servers, routers, appliances and desktop computers (prominently in the academic world) in the u.s.

There are many people like Linus in Finland, and you can't beat the finns at demo-programming.

And most of that hardware if from taiwan anyway.

>Are there any American movies playing in your country or
>American programs on your TV?

hollywood movies generally suck, and so does the majority of tv shows exported. ricki lake, jenny jones, bitches like that and more who are inexcusably responsible for dumbing down the youth. British tv is where it's at. u.s entertainment, ha!

>Now think about how Finland has contributed to my life and
>my country.

Yes, what was that about linux? Hmm...

>Have you been to the USSR, to Eastern Europe under Soviet
>rule, to the US that you love to hate?

Finland used to BE part of Eastern Europe under soviet rule. So why don't you be quiet for a change, gotham?

 

[Liquid Tension]

Wow there are some very angry people on this forum! It must be very tiring walking around with all that hate and anger! I hope that nobody will have to experience the loss that this area is dealing with now, but my fear is that America can't let this go unpunished and many others will suffer.


luke,

Thanks for the response and still hoping...

 

[MetalManCPA]

The world is a stage - and the U.S. plays the lead role, and I doubt anybody can contradict that.

What sickens me is all of the "deserve it" crap. Anybody who says that the U.S. deserved this might as well turn on themselves, because in my eyes, you've lowered yourself to scum level. Terrorism is all about hate, and this kind of talk fuels the hatred.

I am an American, and proud to be one. And I would assume most are proud of the country they live in.

One last thing: in my eyes, it's religion as a whole that is to blame for most conflicts in recorded history. Boy, whatever word was started way back when has been twisted into the beliefs people carry around today. I will never understand why something like this happens - but as time wears on, and more people speak up, I become disgusted at how the human race values life, and what the human race deems important.

So maybe every country in this world should build a wall, and stay out of everybody elses way.

 

[luke]

Originally posted by Protocol
>It is not even possible for humans to be personally aware of more than a couple of hundred individuals (maximum pack size I guess), so in this sence an accident of 20 dead people and their mourning families would be enough to saturate any human mind who were to apply empathy to all those people.

The fact that one is not personally aquainted with all of them does not preclude the ability to sympathise.

>No, I can't. They've been showing no such tasteless material on bbc world during the 20 or so hours I've followed it since the attack. The impatcs, certainly, the collapses, yes, people waving for help too, but no people jumping. I guess that's why bbc is world-famous for its high quality.

Is this sarcasm?

>No it does not. I don't care much for the lives of people in Iraq, Rwanda or Yugoslavia either. And neither do the vast majority of those who are angry with this whole mess. A person dies every other second (or was it two?). There's just no way one person can be bothered with them all.

Being removed is not just cause for detachment. The fact that you witnessed their deaths on tv, and proceeded to have this conversation with me would suggest that you indeed can be bothered with them. It is puzzling to me why you went to the trouble of making the effort to make a post (now several) about the fact that you don't care. I suppose that if you drive past an automobile accident and see people whom you don't know killed or maimed, you have no compasion for them? Assuming that you had no compasion, would you be willing to advertise it the friends and family of those involved immediately after the accident?

>I'm sure the study is quite correct, but as you said, it deals in _how_people_imagine_things_. I'm not trying to imagine these things. I am, in fact, trying not to imagine them at all, and managing it without much effort so far.

This means that you haven't entertained the thought that it could've possilbly have happened to you?

>There's a 'world trade centre' in Helsinki too. It's a rather ugly building.

I can see the relevence of this point.

>I've said no such thing. That's your imagination playing tricks on you.

Humble apologies for putting words into your mouth.

>You accuse me of not being wired right and at the same time demonstrate this lack of understanding for the fact that humans are different - react different, feel different. Rather hypocritical.

My understanding of the way humans react differently may very well be limited, it certainly doesn't suffice to provide a satisfying explanation for your callousness. I do not intend to attack your character, but rather would have you question your own motivation for making the statements you have. It seems to me that it takes a very minimal capacity for identification with other human beings to see the need for courtesy at a time like this. If you truly feel unaffected by these events, you should at least respect those who are by not touting your insensitivity.

 

[Protocol]

My motivation, luke, as I've said a couple of times before, is that I like to argue, debate, fight. A devil's advocate if you like, although I seldom need to stray from my opinions - you can do wonders with wording and manner of expression.

For pure semantics, I could have included it jsut to contrast how bothered I am by the onslaught of misdirected anger.

>This means that you haven't entertained the thought that
>it could've possilbly have happened to you?

I believe that everyday life happens in small circles. I've entertained those thoughts many times before, I don't care to reiterate them. As I stated before, I think the most outrage is at the loss of safety - the safety I already felt was lost when bush started Pissing People Off(tm).

Perhaps I already feel the world is just as bad a place as all those people have found it to be?

At any rate, about understanding and explanations. There's fashion in science too - the ever-competing factions: There are those who think that the mind is the ultimate source of everything that happens with the body, and those who think that chemicals are the ultimate source. These two dominate in turns and the current fashion is that chemicals rule (or at least in greater part affect) the mind, mental and physical sickness, etc.

There's really no ultimate proof to either, so a lot of the specifics we know or believe we know about how people think might be considered bullshit in a decade.

All in all, I hope you're questioning my motives for the sake of debate and not because you actually can't understand them. =)