Theory on Guitar

I thought it was the harmonic minor = workings of the devil ?... f'in church anyhow.
every four frets = diminished arpeg but I didnt know it was a 7th... thanks
WTF is whole "tone" scale ? sounds like a twisted pentatonic that wouldnt work
cromatic (?sp) is interesting when you can make it work
 
wholetone scale-consecutive whole steps, 6 note scale


There was never any issue with the harmonic minor scale as it was mostly used as a harmonic device to create a major triad (or dominant 7th) on the 5 degree and a diminished on the 7th degree to create stronger resolution within the minor key. It wasn't used all too often in a melodic format as the augmented 2nd interval between the b6 and the 7 was deemed too ackward by most people, especially in vocal music. Hence, the melodic minor scale which yields (almost) the same desired harmonic results and is more "inside" when used melodically as it eliminates the augmented 2nd interval.
 
Meedleyx10 said:
wholetone scale-consecutive whole steps, 6 note scale


There was never any issue with the harmonic minor scale as it was mostly used as a harmonic device to create a major triad (or dominant 7th) on the 5 degree (...)
Click to expand...

And without that we would never have had Egypt!:)
 
Meedleyx10 said:
wholetone scale-consecutive whole steps, 6 note scale
Click to expand...
Yikes... OK this is also a pattern within a certain position of the major scale. No maybe not, OK: G A B C# D# F..... G ? Damn that sounds weird... what do you do with that ?


There was never any issue with the harmonic minor scale as it was mostly used as a harmonic device to create a major triad (or dominant 7th) on the 5 degree and a diminished on the 7th degree to create stronger resolution within the minor key. It wasn't used all too often in a melodic format as the augmented 2nd interval between the b6 and the 7 was deemed too ackward by most people, especially in vocal music. Hence, the melodic minor scale which yields (almost) the same desired harmonic results and is more "inside" when used melodically as it eliminates the augmented 2nd interval.
Click to expand...

In a major scale, isnt the 5 chord 7th always dominant? So then the main difference is the diminished 7 chord ? No, thats probably wrong because we are talking about minor scales. I'm pretty sure I use the harmonic minor scale but you know I have no idea what the root is. So my problem there is I have no idea about minor scales..... transfered into chords. Outside of the minor blues that is.

I loved theory and arrangement but unfortunantly I never got past kindergarden. So I translate everything back through major key intervals. I realize the harmonic minor is different, I see that as having an extra half step and then skips to a four fret interval. Im sure Im makeing no sense, sorry. I will get around to this stuff and it would be better if I could brain wash myself from all my Maj scale knowledge.
 
Yep, that's it for the wholetone. As far as uses....it's most commonly used over Augmented triads, augmented dominant 7th chords, and dom. 7b5 chords. It'll pop up from time to time over altered dominant chords too, but that's not as common because it has a natural 9 and that note clashes just a bit. Because it's a 6 note scale and there are only 12 tones in western music, only 2 wholetone scales exist (enharmonically speaking) and they are a halfstep apart. So, you could just learn two fingerings for it and essentially know all you would ever need to know as far as they are concerned. Another thing...they are symmetrical scales, so they can be named from any note within the scale. In other words, using the one you wrote out as an example, that could be G wholetone, A wholetone, B wholetone, etc......just depends on what chord you're playing it over.

Yes, the 7th chord built on the 5th degree in the major scale is always dominant. In natural minor however, the 7th chord built on the 5th is a minor 7th, or if we're working in triads...just a minor triad. It doesn't sound that weird to our 21st century ears, but it was a bit different way back in the day. In harmonic minor the 7th scale degree is raised so that it is a half-step below tonic (thus becoming the leading tone). So when you build the V chord in harmonic minor, the third (which is normally minor) is now a major third. This is because a 3rd above the 5 scale degree is the 7th scale degree, which was raised when it was changed to harmonic minor. So now that the V chord is major, it has the leading tone so it has a much stronger pull towards the I chord and creates a stronger resolution. Also, in natural minor, the 7th scale degree is a whole-step below the the tonic (aka minor 7th) and the chord built on top of it is a major triad/dom. 7th chord. It doesn't have a very strong bull to tonic which, again, can be remedied be using harmonic minor. Raising the 7th degree also creates a diminished triad (or fully diminished 7th chord) a half-step below tonic which, again, creates a strong resolution.

The best way to understand all that is to hear it. Play the following chord sequences:

-Gm-Dm-Gm (natural minor....the V chord is minor and wont have as strong of a pull back to I)

-Gm-D (or D7)-Gm (harmonic minor....the V chord is now major and contains the leading tone (F#) and will want much more strongly to go back to I)

you probably get the idea for the next two....

-Gm-F-Gm

-Gm-F#dim-Gm


These are easiest to hear if you voice the chords so that the root and leading tone are the highest notes in the voicing(s)
 
Hotel California : see now I find that progression interesting but to me at least from what I ran through of the solo it is a B blues with some passing tones......... I just dont get it. So what friggin key is the progression in ? Bm ? The progression reminds me of the Spanish sound with a F#, G, A, D & even E all major then a Em twist ? WTF........ lol
 
OK Meedley, lets go here
Major scale in 7ths =
1maj7, IIm7,IIIm7, IVmaj7. Vdom7, VIm7, VIIm7 ... I think a few of these m7 may be technically incorrect so correct me there, I forget, I need an augmented or something... but if this is the layout of a Major scale 7th chord pattern... give me the layout of a

Minor7 scale chord pattern

going back now to go over what you just wrote
 
that's almost right. The only one you missed was the vii chord....which is m7b5 (aka half-diminished). Otherwise it was right on.

For a natural minor scale, it's:

i-7 | ii-7b5 | bIIImaj7 | iv-7 | v-7 | bVImaj7 | bVII7

For a Harmonic minor scale, it's:

i-maj7 (read:minor-major 7) | ii-7b5 | bIIImaj7#5 | iv-7 | V7 | bVImaj7 | vii dim7 (fully diminished 7th, not to be confused with half diminished 7)
 
OK, thanks for now, about to "SPLOD". Ill need some time with this. Must find my 7b5 chords as well as learn the root of my augmented chord. I actually have had (for years) a funky smooth jazz kind of progression that ends with a build of those augmented chords moved down 4 frets then up 8 frets at a time but have had no idea what I was playing. It also contains both a A13 and G13 which is also probably technically incorrect but sounds how I think it should, probably an accendental or temporary mode or key change (its beyond me)...... I have chord charts I need to dig out.

For a Harmonic minor scale, it's:

i-maj7 (read:minor-major 7) | ii-7b5 | bIIImaj7#5 | iv-7 | V7 | bVImaj7 | vii dim7 (fully diminished 7th, not to be confused with half diminished 7)
Click to expand...

totally lost me on this one = minor-major 7, bIII, bVI...... Ill get it later but what Im assuming is the harmonic minor is lots of accidentals so on paper, in key sig is written as a major key and notes are flatted in route through the piece.

Its a HUGE jump to get out of kindergarten.......... lol
 
minor-major seven is just a minor triad with a major 7th on top, spelled 1-b3-5-7.....if it's root is G, the notes are G-Bb-D-F#. Keep in mind though, when harmonic minor is being used, it is usually only for the V and vii chords....so the i chord and the bIII chord are left unchanged from natural minor. With the bIII and bVI, the "b" is only to indicate that the chords' roots are built on the minor 3rd and the minor 6th of the key as opposed to major 3rd and major 6th as they would be in a major scale. (i.e. in Gmajor the third scale degree is B so the chord built on the third is is "iii-" whereas in Gm the third scale degree is Bb so it's "bIII......upper case and lower case of course indicated whether the chord has a major or minor quality, respctively)

Note that this doesn't always reflect the accidental of the note itself.....for example in the key of A major, the third is C#, but the analysis of the iii chord would still just be "iii-". If you're in A minor the III chord would still be "III".

When you're analyzing chords with roman numerals, it is always done in relation to how the scale degrees occur naturally in the major scale.
 
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