Time to call it a day?

[gabriel g.]

get over it.

Its your job to make music sound good.
Thats it

If you dont get it, you may chose the wrong job....

 

[kev]

LOL Dan

Well, i've had a similar opinion on it for a few years now. Owens post is a good one. I kind of see this forum as a microcosmic view into the wider scene too.

I discovered even my "troo" metalhead friends are just as bad as any other in terms of confirming to a group, in the way I used to point the finger at "goths" and "chavs". Try sitting in a metal bar and explaining the efforts that a band like "Nickelback" and their producers go through to create a record, and they'll greet you with their one dimensional laughter simply because they've heard the very word. Metal was always the "all for one one for all" genre, where you're fallen comrades at a gig would get picked up to carry on- these days I'm pretty sure the little kerrang fed shits would just kick you in the teeth whilst you're down there. Perhaps this is just Bristol though... maybe everyone here needs to be sent to boot camp to introduce some morals back into our seemingly growing self-centred society I've been really crap recently with seeing the bad in people before I see the good. Maybe the Internet has changed my mindset

Anyway, I don't listen to metal as much now, although I tend to like what I've always liked, and that's any metal with melody involved that doesnt involve some horrific marketing image propelling it. It's amazing how you can associate people, or groups of people with ideologies and instinctively begin to hate it because you know they will be supporters of it - its like bad politics. I can get around that though if its really worth it of course.

I know a local producer who has been at it for about 20 years, and he told me 5 years ago that he had become sick of the stuff that was coming out and metal was really struggling to move forward. I just put it down to him being "oversaturated" though. One things for sure, I'm struggling to think of a new metal band that has hit the big time (I use the word loosely) in the last 5 years who I actually like. I'd rather listen to Hank Marvin

Like any job though, you will have to suck it up to a certain extent if you want to move forwards, or perhaps just diversify the bands you deal with to freshen you up in the short term.

 

[HandsOfDespair]

Yeah I agree with you most of the new bands suck hard. Also, I hear a lot of good productions in the Rate my mix section, but good songs are REALLY rare. I often listen to stuff like the last 2 Amon Amarth albums, the last Behemoths, etc, and compare songs (not production) from amateur band posted here, and the difference is huge, although AA music is really simple, I've never seen a song as catch and memorable as any AA song posted here. I mean, a bad song with good production will still sound bad to my ear, whats the point of listening to shitty music even if the prod si good?

 

[drew_drummer]

There are some fucking awesome bands, but they're just not well known. I'd take Astrohenge, Latitudes, and Maybeshewill, over bands like BTMH and BTBAM and Attack! Attack! ...I'm sure they enjoy what they do, and I'm even sure that they aren't too cynical about what they are doing - they probably genuinely think they're doing great music.

But it just doesn't speak to me. It's like... having someone screaming nihilistic philosophy in your face, it's less interesting that having someone conduct an orchestra personally for you in your front room, and the play happens to have nihilistic influences.

That's a shitty metaphor... but there is no nuance to a lot of music these days, and thats what I'm missing in those bands. It just seems like if you want to make any kind of headway or even some sort of financial success, you need to be the loudest and 'corey-ist' .... fuck that.

I'll probably be poor for the rest of my life. But at least I'm trying to put some of my soul into what I do.

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

Ermz, I completely understand what you're discussing but the thing is, when you chose this career you KNEW that you wouldnt work with everything you liked. Artistically speaking, that's the major difference between Producing and being a Musician, being a musician you choose to create whatever you want, being a producer/engineer/whatever doesn't give you, for the most part, the privillege to fullfill your creative needs. And you know, how tools/electronics and technology in general is going forward pretty fast, music is changing as well, mentalities are changing, most of us don't like it but it's a reality that has to be dealt with and it must come from within you to realize that things not always work out like you want to, I'm not saying to do your job, give up and be passive to this changing of tides in music but I'm also not saying for you to give up your job alltogether. Might as well, do your job, which is your passion, as well as mine and as well as many people on this forum (well, some.. ), and also be a bit more pro-active in introducing your mentality and your view of music into these kids.. because you know the reason they're doing so shitty music is due mainly to the internet and trends, there are exceptions to the rules, but for the most part that is it.

 

[crazykarl]

I felt fairly similar lately. There's a lot of crap in the pipeline. It's so easy to get caught up in the "modern" genres and methods. My view changed a lot during a conference call with Bruce Swedien. It really cut down to what it's about, make music that sounds musical. If the current flavor of the month is making you lose faith, then do your own thing, whether it's metal or not.

It's important to note that Bruce also said, "Compression is for kids! Don't use it!" haha

 

[ahjteam]

If you ask me, it's the lack of melodies, use of screamo vocals, monotonic repetitive nature of the music and multitude of breakdowns that is killing me the ability to enjoy the the scenecore music. But it's mostly the lack of melodies that make the songs forgettable.

 

[GarethSE]

If I could give this topic a standing ovation, I would do so.

 

[JayB]

There's plenty of good stuff out there, you just gotta look for it. Maybe you're just growing out of your taste for metal in general.

 

[if6was9]

Part of the problem is that there's wayyy too much music being made,recorded, released and then pushed on the audience. Obviously alot of it is gonna be shit. Even 10 years ago a band had to have caught the attention of someone and be deemed worthy of recording and then worthy of marketing.
Now a guy can record literally anything in his bedroom and post it all over the place and take up the same space on forums/internet as a song that a band could have spent months honing and really worked on recording.
There's just so much crap to sift through to get to the gold, in previous generations there were processes in place to cut out the crap.

i agree with whoever it was that said branch out and record some different genres. I've been getting some work as of late from alt rock and blues bands and it's great, gives the process some new life and you can put a more "metal" spin on the production to give it punch. Also makes the metal recordings more enjoyable beause you can relate to the music more. Also if you're busier then you can pick and choose the metal productions you're involved in to weed out the ones that exhaust you in the first place. Win situation or you.

 

[Sacha]

There's still tons of amazing Metal bands to me, and I still love the music just as much as I did when I first heard it 20+ years ago. Sure there's lots of generic crap too, there always has been and with the proliferation of population that is only going to grow. You have to do what you want to do and if you don't have a passion for Metal anymore then you definitely shouldn`t produce it. However I wouldn`t make sweeping generalizations about the state of Metal in general...

 

[Axonic Rot]

Think of albums that are good from start to end and every last note is memorable.

Think of an album that is good from start to finish and every note was well thought out, but some sections are too technical to hear back in your head, while other sections are so memorable they're printed in your memory forever.

There are a few albums like the ones of described and I love them. Anyone here should be able to recall what fits in those categories. As with anything in this life, there is such an abundance of bad things, that we refer to good things as "exceptional".

Metal is mostly untapped potential just like any other possible human accomplishment. Metal has tones and timbres that would work so well accompanied by great singing and unforgettable melodies, but where is it? It's rare, but as long as musicians are being born there will be more than is out there now.

The more brilliant the vocal work in metal gets the sooner it will be heard by a wider audience.

All of that said, I don't see any reason to quit metal production or to not branch out into other genres. Branching out gives more opportunity and thus allows one to be more selective.

 

[Harry Hughes]

Isn't it? I've always found this place a great microcosmic analogue for the wider metal community. I think people undervalue the importance and role this place, and some of its members have in terms of shaping metal production on a wider scale, especially that in semi-pro circles (ie. the vast majority of metal productions being released). To say what I've seen lately has been depressing is to put it very mildly.

Very important post more people should be paying attention too.

Well, at least in my limited personal universe. None of the people I know on a personal level actually like stuff such as Attack Attack, Bring me the Horizon, Miss Vampire Valentine Rose Blood Monday If I May or whatever, nor do they get almost any kind of attention in the metal medias up here. In fact, if it wasn't for this forum, I'd never have heard of most of these acts that people seem to call the new metal scene.

Yep.
My friends either think that scene-core shit is just fucking vomit worthy music or they literally haven't heard of these bands at all.
BUT, it's definitely not exclusive to this forum. If you're someone who goes on metal forums and tends to keep up with at least some of the latest news, you'll inevitably hear about it.
I've seen quite a few scene-core bashing threads on various other boards.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Think of albums that are good from start to end and every last note is memorable.

Think of an album that is good from start to finish and every note was well thought out, but some sections are too technical to hear back in your head, while other sections are so memorable they're printed in your memory forever.

There are a few albums like the ones of described and I love them. Anyone here should be able to recall what fits in those categories. As with anything in this life, there is such an abundance of bad things, that we refer to good things as "exceptional".

Metal is mostly untapped potential just like any other possible human accomplishment. Metal has tones and timbres that would work so well accompanied by great singing and unforgettable melodies, but where is it? It's rare, but as long as musicians are being born there will be more than is out there now.

The more brilliant the vocal work in metal gets the sooner it will be heard by a wider audience.

All of that said, I don't see any reason to quit metal production or to not branch out into other genres. Branching out gives more opportunity and thus allows one to be more selective.

Disagree. Most metal that would go well with traditional singing, has traditional singing. But most modern metal is not written with singing in mind.

 

[Harry Hughes]

Well, i've had a similar opinion on it for a few years now. Owens post is a good one. I kind of see this forum as a microcosmic view into the wider scene too.

I discovered even my "troo" metalhead friends are just as bad as any other in terms of confirming to a group, in the way I used to point the finger at "goths" and "chavs". Try sitting in a metal bar and explaining the efforts that a band like "Nickelback" and their producers go through to create a record, and they'll greet you with their one dimensional laughter simply because they've heard the very word. Metal was always the "all for one one for all" genre, where you're fallen comrades at a gig would get picked up to carry on- these days I'm pretty sure the little kerrang fed shits would just kick you in the teeth whilst you're down there. Perhaps this is just Bristol though... maybe everyone here needs to be sent to boot camp to introduce some morals back into our seemingly growing self-centred society I've been really crap recently with seeing the bad in people before I see the good. Maybe the Internet has changed my mindset

Anyway, I don't listen to metal as much now, although I tend to like what I've always liked, and that's any metal with melody involved that doesnt involve some horrific marketing image propelling it. It's amazing how you can associate people, or groups of people with ideologies and instinctively begin to hate it because you know they will be supporters of it - its like bad politics. I can get around that though if its really worth it of course.

I know a local producer who has been at it for about 20 years, and he told me 5 years ago that he had become sick of the stuff that was coming out and metal was really struggling to move forward. I just put it down to him being "oversaturated" though. One things for sure, I'm struggling to think of a new metal band that has hit the big time (I use the word loosely) in the last 5 years who I actually like. I'd rather listen to Hank Marvin

Like any job though, you will have to suck it up to a certain extent if you want to move forwards, or perhaps just diversify the bands you deal with to freshen you up in the short term.

Ughh yeah, the problem is that most people are just stupid in general.
And guess what? That means that most metalheads are just incredibly ignorant, close minded, stupid muthafuckers.
I know a girl who basically devotes her entire time outside of working to be a "tr00" metalhead. She talks about headbanging, and thrash metal constantly. She also talks about "wanting to stomp on emo kid's faces", but yep, you guessed it, she is always constantly seen in the same 10000 layers of retarded makeup as those kids, has the same stupid over the top dyed hair and takes about 100 photos of herself a week (even though she's a fat ugly as fuck pig ).
And she's 20 years old which is the saddest part of it.
I think it's just that most "metalheads" just never totally grow up.
They get to about the age of 16, and it gets to 20 years later, they're in their mid 30s, still dressing the same as when they were 16, still talking about how "tr00" they are, meanwhile the rest of us have moved on and grown up.

And the point about "oversaturation" is definitely important.
Back in the 80s for example, you had Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Slayer and Testament (mind you, I'm not really much of a fan of most of Anthrax's and Slayer's material, but that isn't the point here).
While all lumped into the same genre, and playing the same style of music essentially, they all had a unique sound. You knew straight away which band it was when you put a record on of any of these bands.
These are the pioneers of the genre.
Then after a while, people see it became popular, so they want to hop on the bandwagon.
Then suddenly, you have 1000 bands playing thrash metal that sound the same.
Same thing happened with hardcore punk. You had Black Flag, Circle Jerks, Bad Religion and a few others, that all had a unique sound.
It's 2010 now, and fuck knows how anyone can tell the difference between any of the current hardcore punk bands emulating that old school sound.

And of course, this same thing happened to death metal, melodic death metal, melodic metalcore, progressive metal, deathcore and of course this pattern extends to just a lot of music made in the last, I dunno, 50 years or so.
And in particular the fuck people can tell the difference between most of the scene-core, hip hop, "R'n'B", dance pop and pop punk 'artists' is beyond me, as I believe these to probably be the worst offenders as far as homogenized music goes.
It really puts me off the idea of bothering to start a new band or join a band, because people either want to be safe and stick to something they can hear and have it sound familiar to them, or if it's slightly new, it's because it's some variation on the current popular music trends that people figured would sell, like the scene-core shit that has that dance music shit in it so that it can attract kids who wouldn't usually listen to that style of music.
Most people just aren't interested in hearing something new and fresh, mostly because people in general are really boring and bland themselves, so you have to appeal to their boring and bland mindsets and attitudes.

 

[AllanD]

95% of ANY genre of music is shitty. It's just that metal/hardcore is 99% shitty


I no longer listen to metal, except for Nevermore and other more proggier bands. I moved on to hardcore/older metalcore. It's just a bit more refreshing than metal. Look into Poison The Well, Shai Hulud, Hopesfall, Converge, 7 Angels 7 Plagues. The first thing you might notice is bad production(minus Converge). That's something you have to get over, it's about the music.

 

[Ermz]

Wonder how hard it is to get into the soundtrack mixing biz. Hundreds of tracks of various world percussion, synths, orchestration, automation all over the place.... mmm.

 

[Morgan C]

I haven't read the whole thread yet (I'm not sure if you're saying metal sucks or mixing metal sucks, or both), but how can you say that metal is so uninspiring and repetitive when your favorite mixers are dealing with Banda like Nickelback and Daughtry? Don't you think they've got the same issues? Every song. I hear on the radio now is a Lady Gaga clone. Someone makes it bog, and everyone tries to copy that formula. It's not limited to metal, and I don't think it will ever go away.

 

[Ermz]

The difference is that popular music like radio rock or whatever is a lot more interesting to mix, and a lot of times produce too. You get a lot more personal freedom to move, and the extent of your job doesn't tend to get confined to 100% sample replacement, and a rough balancing job that any kid with a cracked set of Waves can do.

Musical copycatting and mediocrity is rampant... I'm sure it always has been. The issue with metal is that it has seeped into the production domain itself, and the kids are actually REQUESTING these half-arsed production jobs because they think it sounds good. So once again that goes back to the 'not sure if I want to be part of that any longer'. If I wanted to fore go my integrity, I'd have just done a desk job for some corporation in the city. I want to work on stuff that actually moves me, with artists that have a concept of what quality is (and in general this is what I get, which I'm eternally thankful for), because that's how you get the best from yourself. When you're just churning it all out like a production line, you lose a lot of the inherent reason you get into an industry like this.

Of course the majority of what you work on in any scene is going to be largely forgettable, but the journey itself does count for something.

 

[RemoWilliams]

Wonder how hard it is to get into the soundtrack mixing biz. Hundreds of tracks of various world percussion, synths, orchestration, automation all over the place.... mmm.

Not sure how the game/media/movie/film industry is in Australia but I'm sure for anything like that it might help to do some searching on if there are any companies around that do it, or if you can find any soundtrack artist around and offer to do some recording/mixes with them. Granted even in the "soundtrack" world there will still be copying of the "in" style or what have you, though it might offer enough variety for you.