Time to call it a day?

[CatharsisStudios]

I wonder more and more about the future of metal production with every coming day. It seems that every time I check up on the state of events, or even just browse around here I'm seeing some really mediocre albums being hailed as groundbreaking, and not only that, but people seem to associatively connect the production to their perception of the music. ?

nice low blow dude, i don't care what you think that tgi mix is the best thing i've heard from hardcore

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Its your job to make music sound good.
Thats it

Truth.

 

[Ermz]

I'll have some different stuff on here in a day or two. Been mixing some piano/strings and radio rock lately. Had lots of fun.

@Ryan: we already talked about it on msn, so you know I wasn't referring specifically to your thread.

Also, do you guys really believe that a producer/engineer's job is simply to 'make music sound good'? I would hope that we have some wider responsibilities related to the future legacy of music. After all is said and done, and you've made all your money, do you really want to be remembered as just another guy who copied the now-passe trends of the scene?

 

[timislegend]

I'll have some different stuff on here in a day or two. Been mixing some piano/strings and radio rock lately. Had lots of fun.

@Ryan: we already talked about it on msn, so you know I wasn't referring specifically to your thread.

Also, do you guys really believe that a producer/engineer's job is simply to 'make music sound good'? I would hope that we have some wider responsibilities related to the future legacy of music. After all is said and done, and you've made all your money, do you really want to be remembered as just another guy who copied the now-passe trends of the scene?

when i was a kid... metal always seemed cheesy. (i still think that).

you just gotta love it man... when engineering becomes tedious, it means you need to take a break. then, populate a different genre to get "piece of mind."

to be honest, that is exactly why i started on this forum (about 5 months ago) and the truth is... metal has made me love pop-music even more than i did before.


change is a virtue.

 

[brianhood]

Ermz....after 10 years, you're probably just burnt out!
I've been doing this less than 2 years, and i already feel burnt out at times. Fortunately i keep bands as mixed up and varied as possible so i don't get sick of any 1 genre.


do you ever do other genres?

 

[Ermz]

Yeah man, as mentioned above I've just been mixing radio rock/ballad type stuff for a few days. It isn't being burned out with engineering.. I'm fine with that, and I do a fair amount of rock projects too... it's just an observation about the metal scene in particular. I come here at times and feel like I've just lost touch with the scene.

 

[Aaron Smith]

There is DEFINITELY more all-around absolutely horrendous scenester heavy garbage being pumped out these days than ever before, but as many others have already stated, there is also still plenty of good metal being put out by a lot of respectable bands. Yeah, the respectable bands don't seem to get the attention or the spotlight that the scenesters have gotten in recent years, but metal has never been about taking the spotlight to begin with. I just find what's good, and ignore the terrible stuff; don't give hardly a minute's thought to it, because it's not even in the same class...it's just, nothing.

And for what it's worth, there are still plenty of smart, like-minded individuals working in the legit metal label world, who crave and respect the creative and legitimate metal just as much as you or I do...so all is not lost.

 

[GarethSE]

If you ask me, it's the lack of melodies, use of screamo vocals, monotonic repetitive nature of the music and multitude of breakdowns that is killing me the ability to enjoy the the scenecore music. But it's mostly the lack of melodies that make the songs forgettable.

So that's basically... Everything about it?

 

[Nebulous]

Haha, very true, but it's the state of the forum, not the state of metal music in general

This.

Isn't it? I've always found this place a great microcosmic analogue for the wider metal community. I think people undervalue the importance and role this place, and some of its members have in terms of shaping metal production on a wider scale, especially that in semi-pro circles (ie. the vast majority of metal productions being released). To say what I've seen lately has been depressing is to put it very mildly.

Honestly dude, having known you in person I didn't think you took this place so literally. It's quite surprising if I'm completely honest.
IMO it is in no way a "microcosmic analogue for the wider metal community". If you want that- go to gigs, listen to community radio shows which play metal, speak to real people, seek out like minded people.
The latter of the above is all I see going on here. It seems as though there are entirely seperate communities within each of these sub-forums at times, with some spill here and there.
The unfortunate part of all this is that while the RMM section could be the most usefull tool on this forum, most of the people whose interaction would suit you are probably the ones who avoid it, as you should probably start doing too if that's the way you feel about it.
At the moment RMM is mainly like following the like, seeking help, but only getting advice from people who are in the same boat as them.

 

[greyskull]

Recording metal made me hate Metal.
I still do loads of hardcore and rock and more 'Emo' stuff and love that.
I tend to listen to not much but post rock and good rock bands these days.
Mellowing out a lot.

 

[Machinated]

Recording metal made me hate Metal.
I still do loads of hardcore and rock and more 'Emo' stuff and love that.
I tend to listen to not much but post rock and good rock bands these days.
Mellowing out a lot.

this sums me up right now. im listening to such a small amount of metal these days.

 

[MarkG]

Yeah man, as mentioned above I've just been mixing radio rock/ballad type stuff for a few days. It isn't being burned out with engineering.. I'm fine with that, and I do a fair amount of rock projects too... it's just an observation about the metal scene in particular. I come here at times and feel like I've just lost touch with the scene.

I love this forum, but it isn't really "the scene". Every forum and every metal bar has its own fads, trends, and favorites. Look around here and its all about that clayman sound, fredman style micing, 5150 amps, etc. Go to another forum and its all about Axe FX + VHT, go to ultimateguitar.com and it'll be all about those marshalls. I walk into a metalbar in Amsterdam and they'll be blasting old pantera and megadeth and you suddenly think trash is back. I walk into a bar in Rotterdam and its all about rammstein and 16 volt.

My point is, the "scene" doesn't really exist. You feel you lost touch with the "scene" on sneap, wel good for you! If everyone just liked how things were going there would never be any progress. I'd say keep broadening your horizon for fresh air, and stay true to your beliefs regarding production and other less significant parts of life.

hmz I wrote a bit more than I meant to

this sums me up right now. im listening to such a small amount of metal these days.

I still listen to a lot of metal, but also newer punk and rock bands. I don't see much innovation there either though. My girl introduced me to the gaslight anthem, skunk and ansie, and adam lambert among others. Not exactly my music, but it did open my mind a lot to other possibilities in music. Turned me off from a lot of the louder is better crap, and metal vocals. Got me into dream theater a lot, my playlist now consists of dream theater, tool, the smashing pumpkins and muse. Some new devildriver in there too, but thats about it. I still love metal, but I guess I'm becoming more selective and I've begun to realise what exactly it really is I love about metal in general, and guitars specifically.

 

[Melb_shredder]

I'll have some different stuff on here in a day or two. Been mixing some piano/strings and radio rock lately. Had lots of fun.

@Ryan: we already talked about it on msn, so you know I wasn't referring specifically to your thread.

Also, do you guys really believe that a producer/engineer's job is simply to 'make music sound good'? I would hope that we have some wider responsibilities related to the future legacy of music. After all is said and done, and you've made all your money, do you really want to be remembered as just another guy who copied the now-passe trends of the scene?

First of all... You're right. Look at the Black Album... that absolutely SMASHED metal production to pieces and paved the way for todays standards IMO. And without that production, that album would still be great, but not as reveered IMO. It kicks your balls in every second etc...

But relating to your thoughts on metal etc. Take this in no offense, but you are essentially going between your bedroom and the sneap forum for most of what I see. And that's fair enough, you do a lot of work and you come here for knowledge etc. But I think if you had the time and searched for bands, went to more gigs etc and became more of a listener again instead of being in the producer seat and really only hearing what gets put on this forum, I think you'll start appreciating it again.

I love this forum, but if it was the only place I could go for metal... i too would hate metal.. it just is this way

 

[Jackal_Strain]

This forum is a great place to discuss gear, production techniques etc, but its a terrible place when it comes discovering new bands...

 

[The Unavoidable]

I think many aspiring AEs seek out music that is well produced/great sounding, which alot of the time is when the music itself is the most mediocre.

 

[Jind]

While I'll always be a metal-head at heart, I can't deny that as I get older, my tolerance for bland, wash, rinse, repeat, metal has caused me to look elsewhere for most of my listening enjoyment. I find very little what I would define as "substance" in what is released these days and with our new and modern way of distribution, anyone with a home studio and an internet connection is now a "professional" musician, it just seems we have been overwhelmed with cookie cutter music all based around the exact same cliched tones, the exact same production techniques, the same plug-ins, the same songwriting formula - you get the drift. Don't get me wrong, it's not just metal, but pretty much all forms of music, unfortunately it almost seems exaggerated in metal.

As a musician, my days of bone crunching metal are probably behind me as I find little enjoyment writing it, the sounds I consider to be great have much less gain involved and much more feel and heartfelt phrasing. I've found myself listening to music from past generations with a greater appreciation for the uniqueness that individual artists had - that individual producers had as they created the techniques used today with great effort put into sounding different than the masses. While there are metal bands that try to be original, that you can tell it's them the second you hear a new song, unfortunately there are a hell of a lot of bands not attempting at all to be original, to form their own niche, their own identity. Even the things I look for in a guitar player these days have changed - It's not about shock and awe of great prowess and speed, it's about the "wow" that really made me feel an emotion or two - it could be anger, it could be happiness - as long as it moves me.

I know - I sound like the old guy I am, but unfortunately I've become my own cliche in that respect - looking back at "better" days I guess. I'm sure most won't share my opinion and I have no problem with that - if I did I guess I'd be a hypocrite.

As always - your mileage may vary, but this topic is a good one and I figured I'd add my thoughts.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Massive +1 to the last three posts

edit: (before jind, dammit )

 

[Ermz]

But relating to your thoughts on metal etc. Take this in no offense, but you are essentially going between your bedroom and the sneap forum for most of what I see.

Not sure I understand this all the same. I'm usually working in some capacity with half a dozen bands at any one given time. How much broader do the horizons need to be? Once again, I don't know if you realize this but when you make a statement like that, it's openly patronizing, much the same as mch was when he took a swipe at your band recently. Saying 'no offense' in no way negates the inherent tone or content of a sentiment. I'm in contact with artists, producers and engineers from all over the world, at any given point in time. The idea that my view of the industry is somehow solely derived from my experiences surfing the net on a forum is silly. In the face of how lucky I am to work with whom I do, and have the contacts that I have, it would be pretty counter productive to start trawling pubs for talented bands to suck up to. That's an A&R guy's job.

There are no places to go and see a dark ambient or soundtrack performance, yet those are currently in the lead as my favorite forms of music. It has nothing to do with exposure, or engrossing oneself in the scene. I highly doubt it's going to be Melbourne, of all places in the world that will shatter my world view and reconstruct the way I look at metal music, if only I went to more gigs that guarantee deafness before 30. It's a perpetually repressed scene. I've been more or less part of it in some shape or form for the last 12 years, long before I ever thought about production. There is nothing here but dead ends.

 

[Ermz]

Good call, Jind. It's always good to hear the perspective of someone who has been around for a while.

It's hard for me to relate this to 'better days', because honestly all I really know well apart from the last 10 years of fail were the 90s. It just seems that all the great ideas were already had. All we have now are kids playing mash-ups and combining all the genres on their iTunes playlist into a single song (thus Attack Attack, Bring Me the Horizon etc.). Rarely do bands try to find new ground for metal to tread. Even the ones with seeming inherent potential (djent) are quickly pummeled to death and beaten into repetitive mediocrity. I had hoped that Meshuggah sparked a new wave of thinking about metal music, but all it ultimately resulted in is a bunch of guys playing downtuned bendy riffs in odd time signatures with shitty core vocals. Nothing is ultimately communicated, nothing worthy is exchanged between the band and the listener.

 

[Machinated]

ermz, tbh i think the only metal bands i can think off the top of my head that are really pushing boundaries are opeth, meshuggah and mastodon. and out of those, mastodon are the only one that seems to be getting stronger and stronger (opeth/meshuggah starting to exhaust their sound somewhat IMO).

check out mastodons latest album, crack the skye if possible - really awesome.