Torpedo VB-101 : hardware loadbox +cab/mic/miking sim

Deadstar said:
hmm that's a big kick in the balls dude.. i mean it's a cool & useful device but 1500€ is too much for an "hardware cab sim". Especially if u wanna reamp.. u get a reamp box which is waay cheaper.
Click to expand...

or an axe-fx if there is a big need to spend so much cash!:D
 
So what is the difference between the VB-101 and the Axe FX Ultra (as far as modeling vs. real amp etc.)

From what I understand... the VB-101 "IS" the sound of your amp and tubes etc., NOT a modeling device. The cabs and mic sims are what adds the "tone" so-to-speak to YOUR amp and tubes etc.

Is that correct?

Also, there's another unit coming out from Two Notes that's stereo I hear called the Torpedo VM-202. I've been emailing the company about it and it seems like it has an effect input to run stereo effects of your choice as well.

Here's a splash about it. http://www.gearwire.com/twonotes-vm202.html

Jamie
 
SEA said:
So what is the difference between the VB-101 and the Axe FX Ultra (as far as modeling vs. real amp etc.)

From what I understand... the VB-101 "IS" the sound of your amp and tubes etc., NOT a modeling device. The cabs and mic sims are what adds the "tone" so-to-speak to YOUR amp and tubes etc.

Is that correct?

Also, there's another unit coming out from Two Notes that's stereo I hear called the Torpedo VM-202. I've been emailing the company about it and it seems like it has an effect input to run stereo effects of your choice as well.

Here's a splash about it. http://www.gearwire.com/twonotes-vm202.html Jamie
Click to expand...

you nailed it :

Axe Fx = mostly a big choice of diverse & very good amp/pedals modelizations + nice effects
+ IRs since without IR's you cannot use it without a poweramp+cab (+mic if you wanna use a recorded signal for studio or live)

Torpedo vb-101 = you have a rig (amp head, pedals, whatever) that you love already, and the torpedo is the silent killer cab/mic/miking/most fx unit (with real time settings adjustements, which is a big difference compared to loading up an IR with predetermined "settings" (cab/mic/miking) that you cannot tweak (cab/mic/miking) afterwise) you add at the end of your chain

And yeah you're right about the VM-202, it's in the works. It's like the Torpedo VB-101, but stereo (means you can use two cab/mic/miking/post fx combinations at the same time); without the loadbox also (means you can use it directly after a preamp, or use with a preamp+poweramp if you add a loadbox)
 
Djabthrash said:
you nailed it :

Axe Fx = mostly a big choice of diverse & very good amp/pedals modelizations + nice effects
+ IRs since without IR's you cannot use it without a poweramp+cab (+mic if you wanna use a recorded signal for studio or live)

Torpedo vb-101 = you have a rig (amp head, pedals, whatever) that you love already, and the torpedo is the silent killer cab/mic/miking/most fx unit (with real time settings adjustements, which is a big difference compared to loading up an IR with predetermined "settings" (cab/mic/miking) that you cannot tweak (cab/mic/miking) afterwise) you add at the end of your chain

And yeah you're right about the VM-202, it's in the works. It's like the Torpedo VB-101, but stereo (means you can use two cab/mic/miking/post fx combinations at the same time); without the loadbox also (means you can use it directly after a preamp, or use with a preamp+poweramp if you add a loadbox)
Click to expand...

So you would STILL need the VB-101 to get YOUR AMPS sound and feel WITH the VM-202 correct? Can the VM-202 be used just like an Axe Fx like... just "plug-n-play"? If so, wouldn't it be similar as the Axe FX (like Two Notes version of the Axe FX?) So to speak?

I was all set to pull the trigger on an Axe FX Ultra but instead, I'm having a custom, TRUE Point-to-Point, hand-wiring amp built for the highest quality and shortest possible signal path, using only the best components. This is a 1 of a kind custom amp so I can work with it to get my sound. My ONLY problem is I have a 10X9 room I use as my studio in my home. So HOW the heck am I going to crank the amp with out earplugs? LOL!

It's only going to be 15watts but SILL when I owned a Blues Jr. I never really got it passed 4. So I was thinking "Well... I COULD build a sound proof box... stick it in the bedroom next to my studio (no basement) and mic it and put the head next to me in here." THEN I ran across the Torpedo from one guys suggestion on a thread I started on the Fractal forum. (Here's the thread) http://www.fractalaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12947

After re-reading it I told my wife like "WOW!!!! COULD THIS BE REAL???!!!" LOL!

If I WANTED to sound like EVERYONE else, I'd buy the Axe FX and then use the patches and the sounds that EVERY one uses right? But modeling is still modeling and I want MY SOUND ya know? Now... it looks like the VB-101 will do that. THAT's why I'm a bit leery on the VM-202 cause IF it ISN'T a load box, then it seems liked I would need both the VB-101 and the VM 202. I don't mind actually, just means saving up some $$$! :)

I don't record for a hobby so for me, getting the right gear IS crucial.

Now, do I need 2 amps sims in the VM-202? Not sure, sounds awesome, but my MAIN thing is being able to run Stereo Effects and record them STEREO with the VB-101.

Have you tried that? Recording Stereo Effects? To put a stereo effect in front of a mono amp then run it through the VB-101 wouldn't work. It would have to be inserted somewhere after the VB-101 correct?

When I asked Diffusion Audio this question they said this:

The VB-101 is a mono unit with the exception of the final post micing processor "spacial" which creates a stereo effect that's particularly useful when using headphones. Analog effects can be used as one would use them with a traditional amp set up ie. either between the guitar and the amp or in the amp's (assuming an effect loop exists) effect loop. In addition, the Torpedo's output may be processed and in this case, stereo effects are easy. You could also create a tri stereo (center dry, left and right) rig in this manner much the same way as Steve Lukather or Eddie Van Halen do with their Bradshaw racks.
Click to expand...

So I guess coming OUT of the VB-101 I would go into something like (let's say) an Eventide Timemachine. THEN... go into my AD converters correct? Now, maybe I could add my effects after I cut the guitar parts by going out of my ADDA.. into the effect unit of my choice... then BACK into my ADDA cright? The only thing is, if I'm playing with a dely box, I'm playing according to what I'm hearing which influences HOW I play!

Perhaps there's a way to hear the effect I'm using... cut the signal dry... then add it after with the VB-101. But it still would be cool just to print it stereo, all in one take and say "That was cool" then move on to the next track (if you know what I mean.)

Jamie
 
SEA said:
So you would STILL need the VB-101 to get YOUR AMPS sound and feel WITH the VM-202 correct? Can the VM-202 be used just like an Axe Fx like... just "plug-n-play"? If so, wouldn't it be similar as the Axe FX (like Two Notes version of the Axe FX?) So to speak?

I was all set to pull the trigger on an Axe FX Ultra but instead, I'm having a custom, TRUE Point-to-Point, hand-wiring amp built for the highest quality and shortest possible signal path, using only the best components. This is a 1of a kind custom amp so I can work with it to get my sound. My ONLY problem is I have a 10X9 room I use as my studio in my home. So HOW the heck am I going to crank the amp with out earplugs? LOL!

It's only going to be 15watts but SILL when I owned a Blues Jr. I never really got it passed 4. So I was thinking "Well... I COULD build a sound proof box... stick it in the bedroom next to my studio (no basement) and mic it and put the head next to me in here." THEN I ran across the Torpedo from one guys suggestion on a thread I started on the Fractal forum. (Here's the thread) http://www.fractalaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12947

After re-reading it I told my wife like "WOW!!!! COULD THIS BE REAL???!!!" LOL!

If I WANTED to sound like EVERYONE else, I'd buy the Axe FX and then use the patches and the sounds that EVERY one uses right? But modeling is still modeling and I want MY SOUND ya know? Now... it looks like the VB-101 will do that. THAT's why I'm a bit leery on the VM-202 cause IF it ISN'T a load box, then it seems liked I would need both the VB-101 and the VM 202. I don't mind actually, just means saving up some $$$! :)

I don't record for a hobby so for me, getting the right gear IS crucial.

Now, do I need 2 amps sims in the VM-202? Not sure, sounds awesome, but my MAIN thing is being able to run Stereo Effects and record them STEREO with the VB-101.

Have you tried that? Recording Stereo Effects? To put a stereo effect in front of a mono amp then run it through the VB-101 wouldn't work. It would have to be inserted somewhere after the VB-101 correct?

When I asked Diffusion Audio this question they said this:



So I guess coming OUT of the VB-101 I would go into something like (let's say) an Eventide Timemachine. THEN... go into my AD converters correct? Now, maybe I could add my effects after I cut the guitar parts by going out of my ADDA.. into the effect unit of my choice... then BACK into my ADDA cright? The only thing is, if I'm playing with a dely box, I'm playing according to what I'm hearing which influences HOW I play!

Perhaps there's a way to hear the effect I'm using... cut the signal dry... then add it after with the VB-101. But it still would be cool just to print it stereo, all in one take and say "That was cool" then move on to the next track (if you know what I mean.)

Jamie
Click to expand...

Jamie since you're asking very specific questions, especially on the stereo effects thing which i don't know well, i sent an email to Guillaume from Two Notes and he might come here to reply to your questions. Also you should come to the official Two Notes forum and ask those VM-202 questions here :

http://www.two-notes.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=12

Now i'm gonna try to answer some of your points, even if i cannot 100% guarantee that what i say is 100% right (especially the stereo effects thingie)... just my 2 cents :

You're right on some points and wrong on some others... let me explain :

- VB-101 = mono loadbox + cab/mic/miking/post-fx
-> so the VB-101 is mainly for "regular" (preamp+poweramp) amps, but you can still use it with a preamp only if you want :

"Besides, the VB-101 includes a XLR line input, symetrical or asymetrical, in which you can connect a bass or guitar preamp. This way, you can take advantage of the VB-101 simulation without having to add a power amp to your preamp" (see this thread for more info on that : http://www.two-notes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10)

- VM-202 = stereo tube stage (power amp)/cab/mic/miking/post-fx
you can plug a preamp directly into the VM-202 IIRR, and also i've heard somebody mention that it would feature different poweramp sims, so you wouldn't need a loadbox to use it if you put just a preamp before. But i you wanna use a "real" (pre + power amp) amp, you just need to add a loadbox to the chain.

So to sum up i think your choice should be the following :

1) if you like your analog amp and wanna use mono only, get a VB-101 (which has a loadbox)


2) if you like your analog amp and wanna use stereo (i know you can plug ONE amp into the VM-202 and have one side with one cab/mic/miking/post-FX sim, and the other side with another cab/mic/miking/post-fx sim, but i'm not sure if you can plug TWO amps into it and have each one on each side, each one having its own cab/mic/miking sim, which should be similar to having 2 amps and 2 torpedos VB-101, one for each amp), get a VM-202, BUT there's no loadbox with the VM-202, so if you're using the poweramp of your analog amp and if the latter is not connected to a cab, then you need to add a loadbox to it (i think Two Notes is gona release its own loadbox for that purpose), but no need to add the VB-101 !!!
On the other hand, if you use your preamp out only, i don't think you need a loadbox since the VM-202 has a built-in tube stage simulator, with different tube stage sims IIRR.

Check this VM-202 description here :

http://www.two-notes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=149

"The VM-202 is a dual-processor guitar/bass cab simulator. It handles both analog (line balanced/unbalanced) and digital signals (S/PDIF, AES/EBU).

Plug in your bass/guitar pre amp (or other instrument with a line output) and benefit from our exclusive tube stage simulator, along with our acclaimed TORPEDO algorithm. You can play 2 cab + microphone simulations simultaneously and reproduce a multi microphone miking process."

The spacialization thing you've mentioned is just for monitoring, it's not something you would record with... let's say it's just a "gadget" for people who are not used to hear a mono miked signal.

I think some of the Torpedo users have Eventide stero effects and that kind of stuff, so the issue has been asked and answered on the two notes forum, but in the French section only i'm afraid.

So i suggest you to post on the two notes forum to have your questions answered, unless Guillaume comes to post here.
 
JeffTD said:
I'm sorry man, no clip of this I've heard has really sounded very good at all; I'd rather use impulses or *gulp* my POD for direct recording.
Click to expand...

Did you checkout some shoutouts like the following ?

1)regular amp (pre + poweramp) + cab A + mic B + mic position C

2)regular amp (pre + poweramp) + POD impulse with same cab A/mic B/mic position C

3)regular amp (pre + poweramp) + IR (via Axe Fx or software) with same cab A/mic B/mic position C

4)regular amp (pre + poweramp) + Torpedo VB-101 with same cab A/mic B/mic position C


Keep this in mind : the Torpedo VB101 is a new product, not widespread yet, and the current users have a specific tone that you might not like, but that doesn't mean the tone would be better with a 1 / 2 / 3 configuration compared to their 4 configuration.

My point being, if you know somebody that has a tone you like with a 1 / 2 / 3 configuration, i don't see how his tone shoudn"t get equally good if not better with a 4 configuration.
If the clips you've heard so far do not sound good to you, maybe it's because you just don't like their tone, Torpedo or not.

I'm pretty sure you would here some killer tones if let's say Ola/Sneap/Murphy/Bulb had a VB-101 to play with.
 
Djabthrash said:
Jamie since you're asking very specific questions, especially on the stereo effects thing which i don't know well, i sent an email to Guillaume from Two Notes and he might come here to reply to your questions.
Click to expand...

Thanks man! I didn't even know they had a forum yet! LOL!

I'll try to hit on it. I hear the problem with load boxes is that they can change the tone and sound you are going for since the speaker is pushing air and vibrating through your cab (which is part of YOUR sound).

However, the sims in the VB-101 and mics might be "as good" (so to speak) according to what people actually hear.

My thing is no matter how good digital modeling has become, there are some people who can tell the difference on the Axe FX as far as more digital distortion vs. real tube amp distortion.

With that being said... is there a big difference (in your opinion Djabthrash) on the distortion that you are getting out of your amp + VB-101 + Daw vs. an Axe Fx (if you own an Axe that is) or whatever digital modeling device you own?

If not you personally... do you know others who have both the Axe FX and the VB-101 and can honestly say "Wow... my real amp with tubes going through the VB-101 sounds better than my Axe FX amp/tubes sims" :headbang:

Something like that!

Jamie
 
JeffTD said:
I looked through every thread you linked to in the original post, and I can't find any shootout like this. What I did find, were a bunch of clips of tones that shouldn't cost anywhere near what an SE + 1500€ costs.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen any either. That's why I'm asking for those who have both units (Axe FX and VB-101) to show us their stuff! :danceboy:
 
Dear all,

I am the owner of Two Notes Audio Engineering. Djabthrash informed me of this thread, but I don't like to trust all the forum of the web, so I prefer to answer you directly in our own web forum if you don't mind to register here :

http://www.two-notes.com/forum/

You may find soundsamples and interesting discussions on the Huge Racks Inc forum here :

http://www.hugeracksinc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=586990#586990

Some of our customers have both Axe and Two Notes units, you may find their viewpoints usefull. Most of them are pro guitar players/music producers.

I hope I don't disobey the Ultimate Metal forum rules. I can say I am personally involved in Metal music with my band Combustion Spontanee. As a hobbyist music productor I work with many metal bands so you can be sure that recording metal guitars/bass/drums are one of my addictions. ;) Next week I record voices for the BM band Blasphemator, all the guitars and bass are of course done with the VB-101...
 
SEA said:
I haven't seen any either. That's why I'm asking for those who have both units (Axe FX and VB-101) to show us their stuff! :danceboy:
Click to expand...

Those clips were on a French forum kinda-200-pages-long thread so it would be a real pain in the ass to find those right now :)

In case you're a really determined guy and you think you can guess what those Frenchies are saying it's in this thread (i think the user i mentioned is called Luna jena or something) :

http://www.guitariste.com/forums/pe...o-notes-torpedo-vb-topic-off,286024,2580.html

I think you can find some feedback from both Axe Fx/Torpedo users on the link Guillaume gave you.
 
SEA said:
Thanks man! I didn't even know they had a forum yet! LOL!

I'll try to hit on it. I hear the problem with load boxes is that they can change the tone and sound you are going for since the speaker is pushing air and vibrating through your cab (which is part of YOUR sound).

However, the sims in the VB-101 and mics might be "as good" (so to speak) according to what people actually hear.

My thing is no matter how good digital modeling has become, there are some people who can tell the difference on the Axe FX as far as more digital distortion vs. real tube amp distortion.

With that being said... is there a big difference (in your opinion Djabthrash) on the distortion that you are getting out of your amp + VB-101 + Daw vs. an Axe Fx (if you own an Axe that is) or whatever digital modeling device you own?

If not you personally... do you know others who have both the Axe FX and the VB-101 and can honestly say "Wow... my real amp with tubes going through the VB-101 sounds better than my Axe FX amp/tubes sims" :headbang:

Something like that!

Jamie
Click to expand...

Well well well... i don't own the axe fx so i can't help you on the "analog amp+torpedo vb-101 vs Axefx or some other digital modeling device". Though on the French forum i mentioned in my previous post i remember some users owning both the axe fx and torpedo vb-101 saying that their axe fx sounded better with the IR section bypassed and using the Torpedo instead (for cab/mic/miking).

The guy did some kind of shootout like the one i mentioned earlier (including a axefx with IR vs axe fx with torpedo), but it was in a 260-page-long thread all in French so it's gonna be a pain in the ass to find it.

The thing is : if you like your analog amp, the torpedo is the best way to get the most out of it (a shitload of cabs/mics/miking in a high quality unit with the flexibility of real miking).
But also some people like the sound of the axe fx modelizations compared to a real amp. That's just a matter of taste really.

The axe Fx will not sound like your analog amp. It will sound like the axe fx, period. For some people it won't sound as good as their analog amp, for some others it will sound better, for some others if will sound equally good but different. Though if you speak strictly in terms of IR quality, the users that have tried the axe fx IR section vs the Torpedo preferred with the Torpedo being used for the cab/mic/miking part in their signal chain, the preamp/poweramp signal being an analog amp or the axe fx. So if you like your analog amp, give the torpedo a try.

About the loadbox thingie, i think you mean a powerbreak thing, and it's only a problem if you mic the cab, since you don't push the cab as hard as you would do with real loud volume (but still you benefit from the cranked power amp effect which is the purpose of a powerbreak). But the Torpedo IRs have been made with normal setups (no loadbox no powerbreak, amps with low to loud volumes), so using the loadbox with the torpedo won't affect the tone.

Not sure if my explanations are clear... i'm trying my best :)

Anyway if i manage to find the post where the guy mentioned the shootout i'll post it here.
 
JeffTD said:
I looked through every thread you linked to in the original post, and I can't find any shootout like this. What I did find, were a bunch of clips of tones that shouldn't cost anywhere near what an SE + 1500€ costs.
Click to expand...

Dude i think i'm the only guy on that forum with the Torpedo. Doesn't mean it sucks. As i said, the kind of shootout i mentioned earlier have been made on a French forum on a huge 200-page-long thread (all in French). If i find it again i'll post it here for sure.
On the other hand, before you judge the Torpedo (only through my clips whereas i don't pretend to be a guitar tone master, i am still learning, and maybe you would not like my tone anyway (i mean with a real mic, or some IR from the web, or with the axe)).

As i said, wait to to hear a "proper" shoutout (tone you like without using the Torpedo vs same tone using the Torpedo in the signal chain) or try it with your own amp before saying it sucks.
 
Example of the remiking feature of the Torpedo (on rythm guitars only) :

- Marshall 4x12 Slash Signature with V30's / Neumann U87 : http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?section=id&value=6269
- Mesa Boogie Rectifier Standard 4x12 (closed back) with V30's / Royer 121 (ribbon) : http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?section=id&value=6271
- ENGL Pro 4x12 with Celestion V30 speakers / BeyerDynamic M160N (ribbon) : http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?section=id&value=6273
- VHT deliverance 2x12 with Eminence P50E speakers / Royer 121 (ribbon) : http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?section=id&value=6274
 
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