Turks and Islam

HeathenPride

HeathenPride

Agressive Member
Jan 25, 2006
133
0
16
Democratic Republic of Kartal
The most of people here cannot think separated that islam and turkish culture. Even that, today, there are also some non-moslem turkic states like judaist khazars and karaims (in liuthania, estonia and poland), christian ortodox gagauz's in ukranie and moldova and the turkic people who never excepted any middle eastern religion (christianity, islam etc.) like altai's or tuva's etc.

And the islamization of Turks are also a dark point in world history. Especially during the Amawi times, turks and moslem arabs had many bloody wars.

What do people know is that it took about 400 years that turkic people choosen islam. what do they tell us in the history lessons that after 8th century ac, during the chinese-turkish war (talas), arabs and turks had an allience and turks liked arabs and we converted into their religion. It really not seeming that realistic.

Personally i am not against islam or christianity but what do i believe that none of these religions really belong to turkish culture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x32Gs99Hm9o
 
Well atleast we know that it's the Turks themselves who chose Islam by their own will and not forced unlike we (persians).
 
perhaps it's about the fact that some turks took some of the nastier arab traditions which were mistakingly identified with Islam.

as far as I know Turkey is the most Liberal Islamic state in the world...clear seperation between church and state so If you go to the mosque and pray and then go to the butcher shop and buy some pork, no one will arrest you, lynch you cut out your tongue or anything of this sort.
 
The dark point is that, it's still not clear if we Turks really converted Islam by our will or if we forced to convert that religion.

As the composer Turan Dursun written, once moslem arabs has attempted to occopy the turkish city khorosan, where has the gold mines. On the first attempt, they sent 2700 soldiers but they have all killed. But after the 2nd attempt, king Amawi king Muaviyya had invaded Khorasan and Ubeydullah bin Ziyad began to rule there.

In 673, Ubeydullah bin Ziyad gathers 24000 soldiers and attacts turkish city Buhara, turkish queen Kibadj asks for help to other turkish kings but she's got left alone.

After the arabian rule on tukish states, many Turkish women and men has sold as slaved and killed also.
 
HeathenPride said:
The dark point is that, it's still not clear if we Turks really converted Islam by our will or if we forced to convert that religion.
Click to expand...

Are you Turkish people that simple and flat to accept a religion by force.

Face the facts..
People
In
Turkey
Are
Moslems

HeathenPride said:
As the composer Turan Dursun written
Click to expand...

You have a praticular ideas/thoughts about Islam and Moslems, and you won't read history books except from those writers who have those same praticular ideas, see what I mean?

HeathenPride said:
After the arabian rule on tukish states, many Turkish women and men has sold as slaved and killed also.
Click to expand...

So now what! do you want us to hate the Arabs and Moslems more because they have killed many Turkish women and men..
They Can't be revived, and what happend just happend, and can't be changed..
Get over it.
 
The main theory stated in the history lessons was that Turks easily converted to Islam when they met the Arabs, because their previous religion had many similarities with Islam. I don't know much about their earlier belief but it had some slight similarities which doesn't seem enough for conversion to me. But anyway I disagree that it's a dark point in Turkic history. When we look at other Turkic tribes who stayed in the same religion or converted to other religions (like Christianity, Judaism or Chinese Buddhism) most of them lost their Turkic identity (especially Buddhist Turks)
In earlier Turkic religion the king (Hakan or Kagan) was chosen by God (Tengri-Tanri) to rule over the Turks and the world. This also applies to Ottoman kings. They acted like avatars of Allah and thought that spreading Islam by ruling the whole world was a mission given to them by Allah.
It is true that we have taken many cultural stuff from the Arabs as if they were parts of Islam, but we also adapted our own customs to Islam. I don't think conversion to Islam was a negative thing for Turks and it turned out to be positive for Islamic world, too. We created our own approach to Islam, like Bektashi belief and we contributed heavily to the Sufi philosophy. But unfortunately in today's Turkey Islam is heavily studied by means of classical Sunni approach. The other approaches are about to be extinct. I think the dominance of Sunni belief might be considered as a negative thing. But still, we mostly accept the rational version of the Sunni belief. I don't remember its specific name but it is studied and taught officially by the Diyanet. We've added rationalism in Sunni belief, we mixed the Shia belief with rational and open minded behaviour and created the Bektashi belief etc. what is bad about all this? I think Turkic conversion to Islam has mostly positive effects.
 
Blacken the Angel, we turkish people are not flat and simple, that's why islamization period of Turkish people took 400 years. I have also read some books about Turkish history but there's really not a very clean resource which can proove the islamization period of Turks one hundered per cent.

And UnConscious, i am not that sure if we Turks in Turkey really could keep our identify. Actually, about %30 of Turkish vacabulary are full of arabian words, even the republic revulation.

Also, i am not agree that we Turks easily converted Islam religion because of the "similarities" between Shaman (or gök tangri religion comes from sumerian myths) and Islamic belief as they told us in history lessons. If it'd be such, why did it took 4 centuries for us to "accept" that religion!
 
Messiakh, that's for sure that persian history is much more older then turkish history, better to say that, Persians were one of the first civilizations of the world. And you really had a very strong religion (zoroastrianism) and culture before islam.
 
And Blacken The Angel, well i am not a big fan of Turan Dursun. But he has a interesting past, like he was begining to study while he was 5 years old, he became an imam, then a müftü and finnally a heathen just like me :D

His books are only blaming for Islam. As diffrent from him, i don't hate from that religion, but i just don't accept it.
 
the acceptance of islam is a dark point in turks' history? hardly.

but i guess it also depends on how you look at it. and i never believed that turks accepted islam due to the mutual understanding between them and arabs. im definitely NOT buying that story.
 
Messiakh said:
Well atleast we know that it's the Turks themselves who chose Islam by their own will and not forced unlike we (persians).
Click to expand...


Actually when you born, it is written on your ID card.. No one asks you cuz you are a baby and your family decides it. And when you are 18, you have a right to change it. You can also change your ID card and ask for writing nothing on the religion space. (I did so once!) After doing so, you see that you face with difficulties in governmental issues, job or etc. When you give a photocopy of your ID Card without an Islam or any Religion expression on it, it is not easy to have your work done in the government etc... Then I changed it.. It wasn't my idea, but I felt like I have to...
 
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