Unblack Metal

[ohiogrinder]

Actually there is no way you will understand the lyrics without reading them.

I see. but I refuse, thanks anyways.

while Dodens and I disagree on where black metal started, I say Bathory he says Venom, we can both agree on the fact black metal has always been about being offensive and hateful, which Unblack metal fails to achieve, regardless if you can understand the lyrics or not.

 

[AchrisK]

I see. but I refuse, thanks anyways.

while Dodens and I disagree on where black metal started, I say Bathory he says Venom, we can both agree on the fact black metal has always been about being offensive and hateful, which Unblack metal fails to achieve, regardless if you can understand the lyrics or not.

I think it offends black metal fans

But that's cool.

 

[ohiogrinder]

I think it offends black metal fans

But that's cool.

true, but its not hateful enough to be considered true black metal.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Hateful, schmateful.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

...feel that it is not necessary to limit lyrical content to fit someone else's interpretation of what a given musical aesthetic requires.

It's not necessary, it's about creating music that the listener can interpret, and not confusing this communication by a careless selection of media. It is in the artist's interest to maximize the effectiveness of their art, and thoughtlessly emulating a favoured style diminishes this effectiveness. This why the concept of unblack metal is so often dismissed out of hand by those with some understanding of the metal genre.

I agree that (a) probably is enjoyment on a less complete level, but it bothers me to call it superficial. I have loved music (especially metal) for so long that I know my attachement is not superficial. The music (apart from lyrics) give me an enjoyment beyond most other forms of art, and most other activities. There are different aspects of any type of art. A painting has color, texture, subject, interpretation of subject and more. Noticing these things separately is a good thing. I understand that the finished product is what was meant to be experienced, but someone especially enamored with the use of color is not necessarily being superficial. But I realize that painting and music are quite different, and the comparison is not 100% analogous. I also realize that in totally throwing the lyrics out, I am disregarding part of the music. I don't entirely disregard lyrics, but I typically don't read lyric sheets, so in many cases I do entirely disregard them. That's my own problem.

I'm not suggesting your enjoyment or attachment to the music is superficial, just your understanding and appreciation of it.

But I think that (b) is a view probably held by the vast majority, including most bands.

I'm not sure about that, considering how most artists seem to match up themes and sounds in similar ways - in metal it seems the unblack metal bands are the only notable movement actively pursuing this contradiction.

Plus the interpretation of musical aesthetic is subjective.

To an extent, but that doesn't make it unknowable or impossible.

 

[AchrisK]

I was thinking about this as I was driving home listening to Vader. I think that some of my disagreement with your statements regarding certain musical aesthetics lending themselves more readily to certain types of themes has to do with my own tendancy to be unaware of lyrics. I thought about taking the case to a more extreme example. I have heard it said, and have agreed, that a death metal band could sing about cheesecake and puppies and I wouldn't care, as long as the music is good. But then if the lyrics were very easy to understand, maybe I wouldn't like the songs as much as I think. I'd be hard pressed to ignore the music if it was especially killer, but I could see the possibility of it diminishing my enjoyment to some degree. In the case of that Kohllapse song, I do understand what you mean by the dissonance between the music and the lyrics. But I also think that an intimate familiarity (and possible ideological agreement) with black metal amplifies this dissonance.

I still feel I am open to many different lyrical themes within any given genre, but I do see your points.

But do check out Frost Like Ashes. I think they are an interesting case on this topic.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I downloaded the Kohllapse debut album and...aside from that song...it was crap.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

...I also think that an intimate familiarity (and possible ideological agreement) with black metal amplifies this dissonance.

I don't know if it does, even to a layperson it wouldn't make sense - "why is he angrily screaming about how much he loves Jesus?" "why are they praising God over this evil sounding music?" The lister's first impression would be confusion, it would be reasonable to assume that the bands were sarcastic and actually mocking Christianity.

But do check out Frost Like Ashes. I think they are an interesting case on this topic.

I'll take a look.

 

[AchrisK]

..."why is he angrily screaming about how much he loves Jesus?" "why are they praising God over this evil sounding music?"...

I hate it when people think that's all a Christian metal artist's lyrics contain. That's dumb!

 

[SionsBrother]

Me too.

 

[Tallerthanatree]

Truly.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

I hate it when people think that's all a Christian metal artist's lyrics contain. That's dumb!

Implicitly at least, there seems to be a lot of that. I'm still, of course, trying to figure out what the point of this whole genre is (or if there even is one beyond mockery, although that's not a bad motivation if well executed).

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

I hate it when people think that's all a Christian metal artist's lyrics contain. That's dumb!

Right. They also scream about how everyone else is going to burn unless they become slaves to the crucifix.

And how scary and evil satan is.

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

But do check out Frost Like Ashes. I think they are an interesting case on this topic.

Azahel sounds like alvin the chipmunk singing black metal with helium filling up his lungs.

 

[AchrisK]

Implicitly at least, there seems to be a lot of that. I'm still, of course, trying to figure out what the point of this whole genre is (or if there even is one beyond mockery, although that's not a bad motivation if well executed).

Most likely it's the same as most metal bands. Metal fans that learn to play instruments typically create metal of varying types, and with a variety of lyrics. Of course people are individuals and this basic motivation may be combined with various other motivations (to get chicks, to spread a message, to pay bills, to prove something, etc.). It's only hard to comprehend when you assume everyone thinks like you.

 

[Tallerthanatree]

Right. They also scream about how everyone else is going to burn unless they become slaves to the crucifix.

And how scary and evil satan is.

Wrong. Read the lyrics to Lengsel's album Solace.

 

[AchrisK]

Wrong. Read the lyrics to Lengsel's album Solace.

Great album!

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

Wrong. Read the lyrics to Lengsel's album Solace.

Worst music I've ever fucking heard.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

Most likely it's the same as most metal bands. Metal fans that learn to play instruments typically create metal of varying types, and with a variety of lyrics. Of course people are individuals and this basic motivation may be combined with various other motivations (to get chicks, to spread a message, to pay bills, to prove something, etc.). It's only hard to comprehend when you assume everyone thinks like you.

There's a lot you're missing out on with the "whatever, who cares, it's just music" approach.

Acquired Tophet, and though it's the polished melodic type of metal that I normally wouldn't tolerate for more than fifteen seconds if I haven't been drinking I'll tough it out for educational purposes.

How about image? Has anyone explained the "let's dress up like devil worshipers and play Christian music" mentality or is this again more parody and thoughtless adherence to convention?

 

[AchrisK]

There's a lot you're missing out on with the "whatever, who cares, it's just music" approach.

Acquired Tophet, and though it's the polished melodic type of metal that I normally wouldn't tolerate for more than fifteen seconds if I haven't been drinking I'll tough it out for educational purposes.

How about image? Has anyone explained the "let's dress up like devil worshipers and play Christian music" mentality or is this again more parody and thoughtless adherence to convention?

Frost Like Ashes polished and melodic? It's certainly not Darkthrone, but it ain't no Bal Sagoth.

What do devil worshippers dress like? I thought the corpse paint was somehow representative of the black plague or something. Death. Death is a topic that Christians deal with, and have since the beginning. I think Christians have had more personal experience with death over the ages than a few heavy metal fans that dress up all scary and sing about it.