UNDERWORLD discussion thread

[Kenneth R.]

Does anyone know what kind of software Romeo uses to make things like Overture? Is it just a DAW with VST/notational support? Anyone know which one specifically?

I imagine you could look at their production videos if they have any recent ones. Likely it's just as you say, he's got a sample library which he arranges and programs for. It's really not very difficult at all, actually a few years ago, the hardest part was making it sound human by manually altering the timing and velocity of individual midi notes. This is becoming no longer necessary as VSTi features improve.

 

[anonym115]

I never knew they even had production videos in the first place. I wonder which specific program he uses. I'm looking to get back into composition and orchestration now that my life is a little different, but the setup I used to use sounds terrible and massively outdated.

 

[LittleTortillaBoy]

As far as I know he uses Nuendo.

 

[Neva Kee]

Since two weeks have passed and I had more time to listen to it, my opinion of the album has changed as I expected

Okay, as many have also done this, I would like to add my intial reaction to Underworld (after two spins, so this will likely change a bit in the future):
The best:
Without You - this transports a lot of feeling and is just a cool and fun song!

In My Darkest Hour - this has really improved and clicked on me - now for me the best song on the album - crisp and melodic with a heartwrenching solo.

The okay ones:
Overture + Nevermore (the groove of Nevermore is very cool and might still grow even more on me, but I constantly have the feeling that this song is so rushed and could need some short licks here and there (a bit like Iconoclast does) to make stuff a bit more interesting / less linear.
Kiss of Fire - the new approach is interesting and one of the harmonies sounds like it could be from Opeth (back when they were doing stuff like that ), I like it and it will probably grow more
Charon - I still have to wrap my head around the rhythm before the chorus, since until now it doesn't make a lot of sense, but since I like the rest...
To Hell and Back - It starts with a very promising and epic theme that is quickly dropped only to be shoehorned in at the end again. I would probably like this more, if the theme was used more during the song, the rest inbetween is okay, though a bit unmemorable and feels a bit puzzled together...

I'd rather call these "The good ones" now, since they have really grown a LOT (even though I still cannot fully wrap my head around the prechorus of Charon )

New additions here are
Underworld - with a little getting used to it, the "evil" vocals and screaming aren't as bad anymore now
Legend
Run With The Devil
Swansong

The meh:
Underworld - could be a lot more interesting if not for the screaming and "evil" vocals, which I don't like at all (so far I generally liked Symphony for "superheavy" but still melodic - but not this...)
In my darkest hour - such a strong refrain with so little interesting happening inbetween, could have been a lot better, if it was made a bit more interesting "in the interest of the song"
Swansong - It sounds too much like Paradise Lost (the song) with a refrain that instantly reminds me of Manowar ballads (that I like, but when I want that I hear Manowar ) disappointed
Legend - the melody (especially the vocal melody) just doesn't incite any feelings in me...sounds uninspired and samey ("typical" Symphony X lines)

The worst:
run with the devil - if not for the instrumental parts, this would be almost a melodic rock song (not that I wouldn't like that in general) and not a very good one, too...bland and powerless

All in all I am not yet convinced of the Album, but that may (hopefully) still change.

No Meh and Worst songs anymore - even though I still think that Swansong is not weak but the weakest song on the album for me.

I really like the album now and I really like how it tells the story through the songs and their order, which reflects in it's current status:

The albums in general I would put in this order:
V > Iconoclast (yes I really like it that much!)> Divine wings > Twilight in Olympus > Underworld = Paradise Lost = Damnation Game = Odyssey (I like only the ballads and the song Odyssey here)

V > Iconoclast = Underworld = Divine wings > Twilight in Olympus > Paradise Lost = Damnation Game = Odyssey (I like only the ballads and the song Odyssey here)

I only hope that the album has staying power for me because at first Odyssey was close to the top when it was released for about half a year before dropping really fast for me.

 

[Kenneth R.]

As far as I know he uses Nuendo.

Eww but at least it's not Logic or ProFools. Surround mixing (I don't know how much SX does of that) is archaic and limited in all of those Daws.

 

[anonym115]

Why Nuendo? That's more of an AV thing. Cubase with some VST orchestral stuff like halion seems more likely.

 

[AsoTamaki]

He has mentioned using VSL in interviews before. He could've switched to one of the newer, easier to use Kontakt libraries though because there isn't any detailed orchestration on this album with solo instruments etc. I think he did say something about getting new software in a recent interview, but didn't specify anything. And it doesn't really matter what DAW, they all do the same thing.

 

[anonym115]

Workflow is a HUGE consideration. And EVERY program does that differently.

Neva: What don't you like about the prechorus of Charon?

 

[AsoTamaki]

Not really, man. The DAW itself will have little effect on your workflow. We're talking about hosting the software as a plugin. The keyboard shortcuts and the location of menu options will be a little different, but that's about it. It's the interface, engine and scripting of whichever sample library you choose that's gonna determine your workflow.

 

[Kenneth R.]

And it doesn't really matter what DAW, they all do the same thing.

Only some of them are crippled in some areas and excel in others. And those vary.

Why Nuendo? That's more of an AV thing. Cubase with some VST orchestral stuff like halion seems more likely.

I wouldn't say it's an AV thing. Yeah Nuendo has (shitty) video editing, but it's basically the 'pro' version of Cubase. Still has some issues though, and some advantages.

Workflow is a HUGE consideration. And EVERY program does that differently.

Yep. There is almost no comparison. They're all very different.

Not really, man. The DAW itself will have little effect on your workflow. We're talking about hosting the software as a plugin. The keyboard shortcuts and the location of menu options will be a little different, but that's about it. It's the interface, engine and scripting of whichever sample library you choose that's gonna determine your workflow.

If you're doing this, then you really should just use the VSTi standalone GUI instead of a DAW.

 

[anonym115]

Alright, I'm going to attempt to list the top 5 corniest Underworld lyric snippets without listening to the album. Feel free to add to 'em!

Nevermore: "Bloodless spirits wept in fear." (really just the word bloodless is plain old irksome here. Rest is fine.)

Underworld: "Demons of DEAAAAAATH!" (still cool though. seasoned popcorn.)

Without You: "Time to face my fears!" (would cringe hard if it wasn't Allen singing it.)

Kiss of Fire: "Destroyer of all dreams." (Wut? Hardly makes sense in the lyric flow even given the phrases right beforehand.)

Kiss of Fire: "Bring down the hammer, with flaming malice!" (I like the furious anger one. Fight me. Flaming malice though?)

 

[Kenneth R.]

the Demons of Death thing is straight out of Savatage + Edge of Sanity

 

[Postulate]

Alright, I'm going to attempt to list the top 5 corniest Underworld lyric snippets without listening to the album. Feel free to add to 'em!

Nevermore: "Bloodless spirits wept in fear." (really just the word bloodless is plain old irksome here. Rest is fine.)

Underworld: "Demons of DEAAAAAATH!" (still cool though. seasoned popcorn.)

Without You: "Time to face my fears!" (would cringe hard if it wasn't Allen singing it.)

Kiss of Fire: "Destroyer of all dreams." (Wut? Hardly makes sense in the lyric flow even given the phrases right beforehand.)

Kiss of Fire: "Bring down the hammer, with flaming malice!" (I like the furious anger one. Fight me. Flaming malice though?)

I liked, "My strings ring hollow." Nothing else on the album really got me. As for bad lyrics...well, whatever.

 

[AsoTamaki]

I'd go so far as to say they've graduated from the elementary grades. Yeah, it's the best lyrically since The Odyssey. It's all passable stuff. The "Kiss of Fire" bridge was the only part that stood out and it's not as bad as Iconoclast's worst moments anyway. But there's no way you can convince me that he didn't actually record the line as "serious anger" even if the official lyrics say "furious".

Also, I was pleasantly surprised that they somehow avoided mentioning fire and flames any more than on the past two albums. Gotta give them credit for that if nothing else. It seemed inevitable with the theme being the Underworld.

 

[Bear]

Dude. Charon is one of the best, if not the best on the album. That Egypt vibe is all over it. Comparing the two is impossible but shit it kicks ass. Legends also...great track. I'm a fan of this album thus far. 2 listens in and I'm ranking it around Odyssey / Paradise Lost quality, maybe better. Will take more listens to decide.

Its my favorite track on the album. Kind of reminds me of Wicked part II lyric wise but better....

Bear

 

[anonym115]

I think one of the Russes is saying serious anger and the other one is saying furious. If you listen to the "flaming malice" part, it sounds like one of the Russes is saying "slamming malice." Whatever vocal effect they added to his voice makes him sound like he's saying extra "s" letters.

 

[Alien Mantis]

I think one of the Russes is saying serious anger and the other one is saying furious. If you listen to the "flaming malice" part, it sounds like one of the Russes is saying "slamming malice." Whatever vocal effect they added to his voice makes him sound like he's saying extra "s" letters.

I listened to this several times through my Sennheiser HD headphones, and I can clearly hear Russ singing "slamming malice".

I also hear him singing "serious anger".

The esses are in there, for whatever reason.
Could be from multitracking the vocals, and it's possible he sang it that way on purpose.
The only way to know for sure, would be to ask Russ himself.

 

[EyeballKid]

I listened to this several times through my Sennheiser HD headphones, and I can clearly hear Russ singing "slamming malice".

I also hear him singing "serious anger".

The esses are in there, for whatever reason.
Could be from multitracking the vocals, and it's possible he sang it that way on purpose.
The only way to know for sure, would be to ask Russ himself.

I think that is the most reasonable explanation of the sound that we are hearing.

I also think Russell would go, "Huh? What? I just sang it."

 

[Drunc]

What a fantastic album. Far better than anything they did before V. Definitely better than anything they recorded since V. Possibly better than V itself. I can't stop playing it.

 

[_Gentleman of_the Snow_]

Opening to Hell and Back sounds very similiar to the Y&R theme song (Nadia's theme)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRWWWWrVPAU

...and that's a great thing! I've always loved this theme song. Highlight of the album. And no, I don't watch Y&R.