UNDERWORLD discussion thread

Early Christmas gift from Symphony X. My favorite band of all time has just released by favorite CD of all time. Congratulations on getting in the top ten on the new progressive charts. I personally think you should be tops but we don't get a vote. Also thanks to Warren Flannagan, for providing exceptional eye candy to go with the ear candy. I'd put his stuff on my wall if I could buy it. A super huge thanks to the guys for coming to my area for my birthday this year. Hopefully I will spy one of you at the merch table and get in a request (NOT the happy birthday song). I'll be the white-haired old lady with a group of thirty-year-olds............
 
Finally ready to do a song ranking I think:

Favorite to least favorite:


Underworld

Kiss of Fire
Charon
To Hell and Back
Swan Song
Legend
Overture/Nevermore

In My Darkest Hour
Without You
Run with the Devil

If I'm in a more energetic mood, Nevermore/Overture jumps up to 4th.
 
ToastedOveries said:
The material is great but the production still irks me when i listen to it.
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Really?

I think the production is excellent. The guitars and vocals are crystal clear against each other.

I haven't got the new Iron Maiden album yet but there are a lot of grumbles regarding the production of this release which surprises me from a band as established as Maiden.
 
Drunc said:
Really?

I think the production is excellent. The guitars and vocals are crystal clear against each other.

I haven't got the new Iron Maiden album yet but there are a lot of grumbles regarding the production of this release which surprises me from a band as established as Maiden.
Click to expand...

It's not about clarity, but about overall mix and dynamics.
I also think the production is lacking (like the 2 previous albums).
Everything sounds over produced, fake, and there is a definite wall of sound issue going on. It's not terrible by any means.

The new Leprous gets the organic (non-fake) thing right, but it is missing something else instead. I can't put that album as loud as I'd like because it starts to hurt my ears with scratchy sounds (possibly the guitar tone? Too much treble? Not sure).
 
I don't hear a wall of sound on any Symphony X album, really. The keys are a bit low at times, but all the instruments are audible and there's decent dynamics (if only limited to a few tracks due to compositional style). The bass is high in the mix and has a great tone to boot!

Unless you were talking about the new Maiden?
 
Detective Beauregard said:
I don't hear a wall of sound on any Symphony X album, really. The keys are a bit low at times, but all the instruments are audible and there's decent dynamics (if only limited to a few tracks due to compositional style). The bass is high in the mix and has a great tone to boot!

Unless you were talking about the new Maiden?
Click to expand...

No, I meant the new SX.
If you don't think there's a dynamic problem with the last 3 albums, you and I must appreciate different things when it comes to production.

Where are the ghost notes? Where is the part where I realize the instruments are being played by human beings? Everything is at volume 11.
Sorry, just not a fan.
 
_Gentleman of_the Snow_ said:
The point is that everything is so overproduced that you could swap the instruments out with synths/MIDIs/programming and not tell the difference.
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That is the trend in recording nowadays. Drums are usually triggered, bass is recorded direct and distorted so it blends in good with the guitars and more than often there is 4 or even more rhythm guitar tracks to get that "wide" sound. And on top of that, it then is EQ:ed and compressed to the point there is no chance for any dynamics really.

While I dont really mind that in a metal album, I agree that especially on PL it was too much.
 
Paradise Lost was definitely too loud, and although Iconoclast was better, it lacked dynamics because of the songwriting (robots are always at 100%!) But I think Underworld has better mixing than the previous two albums. Yes, the guitars are still too loud and the keys are still generally buried, but it's a step in the right direction. They're never going to go back to the V style where the guitar is practically at the same volume as the other instruments; it just isn't going to happen.
 
I think the bombastic production suited the material on Iconoclast, probably an unpopular opinion, but there you go.

I don't think it suits the more dynamic material on Underworld.
 
The point is that everything is so overproduced that you could swap the instruments out with synths/MIDIs/programming and not tell the difference.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what you're suggesting. There is no way a midi/synth guitar or bass will sound like Romeo or Lepond. You might be correct for drums and keys, though.
 
underworld production is great, step forward, especially on without you, perfect..easy to listen but heavy and "in your face" enough....i wouldnt like SyX to sound like new maiden
 
anonym115 said:
I don't understand what you're suggesting. There is no way a midi/synth guitar or bass will sound like Romeo or Lepond. You might be correct for drums and keys, though.
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Disagreed. All instruments sound like they could've been programmed on a computer, save for select parts here and there. I agree that the drums are the worst offender in this regard, and that's typical.

If you're not going to sound organic, your song-writing better be on point.
I find the song-writing very average. I've listened to the album many times, and it's not that I do not enjoy it... I just don't have this unstoppable urge to listen to it like other albums I have.
 
_Gentleman of_the Snow_ said:
Disagreed. All instruments sound like they could've been programmed on a computer, save for select parts here and there. I agree that the drums are the worst offender in this regard, and that's typical.

If you're not going to sound organic, your song-writing better be on point.
I find the song-writing very average. I've listened to the album many times, and it's not that I do not enjoy it... I just don't have this unstoppable urge to listen to it like other albums I have.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. It's better than PL or IC but after about 10 or 15 spins I don't listen to it anymore. I just haven't found anything about it that stands out like some of their classic albums (which I still listen to regularly). When I do listen to it I have to 'force' myself not to change out in the middle of the album because I've lost interest.
 
_Gentleman of_the Snow_ said:
Disagreed. All instruments sound like they could've been programmed on a computer, save for select parts here and there. I agree that the drums are the worst offender in this regard, and that's typical.

If you're not going to sound organic, your song-writing better be on point.
I find the song-writing very average. I've listened to the album many times, and it's not that I do not enjoy it... I just don't have this unstoppable urge to listen to it like other albums I have.
Click to expand...

I do not agree with this. I think the production fits SymX's style perfectly, you gotta be able to hear everything with a band like this.

Anyway, I love this album like I did everything prior to PL. Very happy with it overall
 
gentleman_of_the_snow is clearly a schizophrenic troll who thinks he knows stuff. his opinion is worthless, don't try to understand
 
I have to say that the new material sounds great live. This doesn't come as much of a surprise, considering that the last few albums have seen the band consciously writing songs with a live performance in mind (the same can't really be said about many of the pre-Odyssey tracks).

Kiss of Fire and Underworld were definite highlights of the Chicago show for me, although Russell seems more concerned with making his evil lows sound good than his wailing highs (he cuts most high notes noticeably short). Without You was surprisingly effective live, including the middle section which I thought wouldn't translate well. To Hell and Back worked extremely well, although I'm not sure why Pinnella isn't doing more in that quiet middle section.

Nevermore and Charon were the weakest of the new songs live, but the sound quality at the venue may have contributed to the former (a song that thrashy is bound to be muddy). Charon was good but it lacked that special "something" that the other four new tracks had.

I would really like to see this entire album played live in full - even Run with the Devil. It's an exciting listen from start to finish and I think the tracks we didn't hear live would translate rather well. But if they did a tour like that, I wouldn't want to hear anything from Paradise Lost or Iconoclast. I'm getting pretty tired of the band acting like the pre-Paradise Lost albums are nothing more than demos.

And what is with Of Sins and Shadows? It's a decent song but they have to be sick of playing it, and there are FAR better tracks from that era.

Plendakor said:
gentleman_of_the_snow is clearly a schizophrenic troll who thinks he knows stuff. his opinion is worthless, don't try to understand
Click to expand...

Well that's a bit harsh...
 
I have to say that I don't like when the vocal high notes are cut short. Even on the album they are a little too brief, but live he just touches them and moves on. I assume this is intentional, though I'm not sure the exact reason.

Nevermore is regrowing on me. Man I really love that song. It's still my 7th favorite on the album, but it's a really high seventh.
 
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