warning : this is HARDCORE

[Gronke]

@breaklose People in for example Africa got "dominated" by the "white man", and even if the tribal communities and the people there had a rich culture these tribal people are looked upon as savages..

There are tribal wars, and they are seem as cruel and pointless... then world war 1 breaks out and MILLIONS die during a few years, just because "the people want war"... puts certain aspects in perspective, I think at least...

Survival of the fittest can be translated into different levels and viewpoints.

 

[breaklose]

hang on, you guys think the average colonized population was happy when they were b-rate citizens in their own country? modern industrialised societies my ass, the independance wars happened exactly because the local population didnt get any benefit from the fast industrialisation.

and yeah tribes have always been slaying each other in the desert or in the jungle, except as far as i know no tribe went to france or holland or uk to rip the local population off and impose their own religion (because they were too retarded for that - not because they were nicer obviously). im not saying the white man is evil and the black man is kind, im just saying the white man opressed the black man - its crystal clear really. and its hard to get up on your feet when youve been put in slavery for a couple of centuries. its not like the colonial powers left their colonies saying 'guys, here are the keys of the factory, i hope youll be alright cause you guys deserve it '. there was no sound structure whatsoever left in all those countries.

and up to now, 40 year after most independance wars, all those countries are still half industrialized, unemployment rates are far higher than any westernized country, people cant access to education, and all the other problems of third world countries we all know. but obviously, years of colonialsim have nothing to do with that

 

[breaklose]

just funny how USA had to attack iraq and not for exemple, haiti, whos been ruled by a dictator for years and years until recently. oh hang on...haiti is the poorest country in the world

 

[Gronke]

hang on, you guys think the average colonized population was happy when they were b-rate citizens in their own country? modern industrialised societies my ass, the independance wars happened exactly because the local population didnt get any benefit from the fast industrialisation.

I didn't mean that with what *I* wrote, I meant the opposite actually. It's now in later years that western society has become both better for the average individual, yet the rift bewteen rich / poor has grown larger than it ever has been before.

and yeah tribes have always been slaying each other in the desert or in the jungle, except as far as i know no tribe went to france or holland or uk to rip the local population off and impose their own religion (because they were too retarded for that - not because they were nicer obviously).

These tribes didn't go to UK, France, Spain, Portugal, Holland, Italy - just because they didn't know how to, and had no possibility.

im not saying the white man is evil and the black man is kind, im just saying the white man opressed the black man - its crystal clear really. and its hard to get up on your feet when youve been put in slavery for a couple of centuries.

You are indeed right about this. Even though the "white man" got other forms of social development, better guns etc, doesn't make them "better" - just makes them the stronger party.

its not like the colonial powers left their colonies saying 'guys, here are the keys of the factory, i hope youll be alright cause you guys deserve it '. there was no sound structure whatsoever left in all those countries.

No, you are right. If you look at the borders on the African continent, you can see that these are drawn in straight lines. The "white man" didn't care about the borders that the tribes had set up in between them, they just took the easiest route possible. This had the effect that many tribes were divided into different countries, and what you see happening in Africa right now aren't country->country war, but war between tribes.

and up to now, 40 year after most independance wars, all those countries are still half industrialized, unemployment rates are far higher than any westernized country, people cant access to education, and all the other problems of third world countries we all know. but obviously, years of colonialsim have nothing to do with that

Globalization DO have POSITIVE effects, like in Asia for example, but in Africa it is different. Of course, one could say; get off your asses, stop fighting and rebuild your economy / social-systems, but this is easier said than done. If it would to be done NOW, one have to take in account the MASSIVE debt the countries have to the world bank and other big money-facilities. This is what years of corrupt dictatorship and pure ego-centric thinking will do to a country.

 

[Gronke]

just funny how USA had to attack iraq and not for exemple, haiti, whos been ruled by a dictator for years and years until recently. oh hang on...haiti is the poorest country in the world

Well, it's how foreign policy works my friend... Cuba was ruled by a dictator, then Fidel (yet another dictator) came into power, yet ONLY when Fidel got to power, the US started to shit their pants and wanted to invade the island.

 

[breaklose]

These tribes didn't go to UK, France, Spain, Portugal, Holland, Italy - just because they didn't know how to, and had no possibility.

well...this is exactly what i said.

Globalization DO have POSITIVE effects, like in Asia for example, but in Africa it is different. Of course, one could say; get off your asses, stop fighting and rebuild your economy / social-systems, but this is easier said than done. If it would to be done NOW, one have to take in account the MASSIVE debt the countries have to the world bank and other big money-facilities. This is what years of corrupt dictatorship and pure ego-centric thinking will do to a country.

oh yeah the effects of globalization are amazingly positive in asia, where people are paid 2 cents a year to manufacture shoes, toys, computers, clothes, so we could use them.

obviously thirld world countries have made mistakes after independance wars, but its not like the western world was really helpful, let alone the ussr.

 

[Bambi]

well...this is exactly what i said.



oh yeah the effects of globalization are amazingly positive in asia, where people are paid 2 cents a year to manufacture shoes, toys, computers, clothes, so we could use them.

obviously thirld world countries have made mistakes after independance wars, but its not like the western world was really helpful, let alone the ussr.

thank god for that, nikes are pricey enough even with them being made by twelve year old asians

 

[pagan2002]

i heard a spoken word CD by jelo biafra not so long ago you should check it out mehdi.. you'd agree loads i reckon.

 

[Gronke]

@breaklose: now you are making it very easy. Take a look around and look at countries like South Korea, Japan, India and the industrial hubs in China - MILLIONS got a BETTER life thanks to globalization.

Now I'm off to bed, cheerio!

 

[breaklose]

did japan or china get colonized by any colonial power tho...? and i wouldnt say india is doing okay these days. not at all actually.

 

[Bambi]

yeah the brits ran china for a while then the japanese did.

japan made a big deal about never being invaded sucessfully till the yanks took over at the end of WW2 but the yanks gave them support to rebuild their infra-structure and then left and allowed them to form their own government. Typical of those imperialist western bastards eh??

I wouldnt worry too much about the indians, 20 years from now they'll have most our jobs. even now ye cant ring a tech support without getting some fucking gupta who gets upset when you tell him he doesnt speak english.

 

[breaklose]

brits ran the whole china? youre sure about that? and japan ran china as much as germany and france ran each other, they kept fighting each other now and then over the centuries as far as i remember.

for what comes to the us helping the japs to rebuild their country (after they erm nuked it), this is one exemple of post-nuking help among millions of exemples of post-independance war-'go and fuck yourselves'...so i guess youre right then.

i hope immigrants get most of your jobs in 20 years, for a change. but what about the actual indians who live in india and who are starving their asses off - i cant see any improvement for them. with all the money invested in rockets to check if theres water on fucking mars, you could get africa back on its feet. this world is coming to its end im telling you.

 

[Bambi]

brits ran the whole china? youre sure about that? and japan ran china as much as germany and france ran each other, they kept fighting each other now and then over the centuries as far as i remember.

for what comes to the us helping the japs to rebuild their country (after they erm nuked it), this is one exemple of post-nuking help among millions of exemples of post-independance war-'go and fuck yourselves'...so i guess youre right then.

i hope immigrants get most of your jobs in 20 years, for a change. but what about the actual indians who live in india and who are starving their asses off - i cant see any improvement for them. with all the money invested in rockets to check if theres water on fucking mars, you could get africa back on its feet. this world is coming to its end im telling you.

nah I think the brits ran china on the sly, they kept the empress there but they were pulling the strings more and more. check out the boxer rebellion and the opium war.


And the yanks helped rebuild nearly all of europe in post-war years, they learned from the first world war in that regard. Im pretty sure they had a similar role in south east asia but they were more afraid of commies overrunning the region

and i WAS on about indians in india. Seems like their skilled labour is gonna take over europe soon. i know a IT boss who here has all his progammers in india cos theyre good and cheap

 

[Gronke]

did japan or china get colonized by any colonial power tho...? and i wouldnt say india is doing okay these days. not at all actually.

Japan was under an economical siege a while after WW2 (de facto), and China was governed by the Britts and also the Japs at some point.

But what I was talking about was globalization, not really the term of being a "colony", sorry if I wasn't being clear.

 

[Gronke]

and i WAS on about indians in india. Seems like their skilled labour is gonna take over europe soon. i know a IT boss who here has all his progammers in india cos theyre good and cheap

That depends, as you might get a project that costs more due to the cultural differences, language barriers and so on. This is of course if you look at countries that aren't native-english speaking.

But for example; in Sweden there's a big drive to have programming-jobs set in Balticum, much due to the fact that the cultures are quite similar.

 

[breaklose]

nah I think the brits ran china on the sly, they kept the empress there but they were pulling the strings more and more. check out the boxer rebellion and the opium war.

And the yanks helped rebuild nearly all of europe in post-war years, they learned from the first world war in that regard. Im pretty sure they had a similar role in south east asia but they were more afraid of commies overrunning the region

and i WAS on about indians in india. Seems like their skilled labour is gonna take over europe soon. i know a IT boss who here has all his progammers in india cos theyre good and cheap

i dunno much about chinese history, but yeah i was more talking about obvious and official colonizing like in africa or middle east mostly.

the us helped europe after the war with the marshall plan and that, sound, but i didnt know europe was part of the thirld world, or used to be an american colony. and funnily enough they only helped the western side of the iron curtain for obvious reasons - to fuck around with ussr and spread their influence, not really because they were nice guys.

and im still pretty sure that european farmers have a much better life than the indian ones. and i reckon its gonna be like that for a couple of decades - its like whats happening with industrial activities, yeah the chinks are a tough concurrence when it comes to manufacturing things, but still their life conditions are shite compared to european/american workers.

by the way i was on the train before, and when i stepped out of it some my pals stole some french lad's mobile phone.

 

[Gronke]

the us helped europe after the war with the marshall plan and that, sound, but i didnt know europe was part of the thirld world, or used to be an american colony. and funnily enough they only helped the western side of the iron curtain for obvious reasons - to fuck around with ussr and spread their influence, not really because they were nice guys.

The Marshall-plan was a golden opportunity to boost the american economy even further. After WW2 there was a dammed up need among the american people to consume, and therefore the american economy was doing really well in this stage.

"Helping" Europe meant more work opportunities for the american workforce, as american business-life benefited from the Marshall plan, thus making it a primer for american economy and society...

 

[breaklose]

yeah, obviously it wasnt for charity.

 

[Gronke]

yeah, obviously it wasnt for charity.

Quite interesting that people seem to think that though.

Same deal with the fact that Henry Ford was involved with the Nazi-party, for example.