Watershed hate thread!

[fps]

...wow, terrible. i dont agree with anything you said at all.

you don't agree that the note intervals we have decided are *in tune* are the 12 that make up a western octave? try playing a gig with one of your guitars a quartertone out and see whether people appreciate harmonic dissonance. chances are they won't.

 

[Crepuscularia]

nonsense, all western music is based around splitting an octave into 12 notes. limits are everywhere in the musical world. and the use of oboe on an album is an orchestral, rather than musical, choice imo.
Kristopher, it's more of an issue for me in Hessian Peel 5 minutes 40 in, when the whole death metal thing kicks in, in the most hamfisted way imaginable.

One of the defining characteristics of music is timbre, which makes the oboe a musical choice.

But you're right... screw the 12-tone system; the next Opeth album should prominently feature micropolyphony!

 

[fps]

One of the defining characteristics of music is timbre, which makes the oboe a musical choice.

But you're right... screw the 12-tone system; the next Opeth album should prominently feature micropolyphony!

i agree i may have spoken hastily on the oboe *issue*. what i meant was that it falls under the umbrella of musical decisions, but in orchestration rather than composition. but that wasn't really relevent. they are now growing on me, that section sounds great with them in! i think i like opeth so much because however far they go, they are going to pull me round to some of their way of imagining music. that's a rare gift, it's why they're so good. 3rd listen just finished, the album's still patchy.

 

[Lothlorien]

you don't agree that the note intervals we have decided are *in tune* are the 12 that make up a western octave? try playing a gig with one of your guitars a quartertone out and see whether people appreciate harmonic dissonance. chances are they won't.

i wasn't talking about the FACTS you posted, i was saying i disagree with your idiotic limitations on the addition of oboes, etc, into Opeth's music.

 

[fps]

i wasn't talking about the FACTS you posted, i was saying i disagree with your idiotic limitations on the addition of oboes, etc, into Opeth's music.

rightyho, well i haven't put any limitations on opeth's music. they've put those oboes on there and that's the end of it, it's then up to us to talk about it- i thought i'd play a little devil's advocate because i didn't like them first time i heard them and wanted to know what others thought. but i don't appreciate being attacked for having a different opinion, i'd rather keep it clean.

 

[angelofdeath9308]

What's up with that riff @ 7:21 in Heir Apparent, that came out of left field. Don't get me wrong, I like it a lot, but it sounds out of place in a dark song like Heir Apparent. At first I also didn't like the transition (or lack thereof) from the soft to the heavy in Hessian Peel, but after a few more listens it doesn't bother me as much. It has become one of my favorite songs on Watershed.

 

[Gowron]

i may have been misconstrued- i personally don't WANT them to get rid of the growls, however i think they don't work with the direction they're heading in. by this you can probably tell i'm not delighted with the direction they're taking. i think burden is embarrassing.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you've been saying in this thread. I thought I was alone in here. And to your credit you have been much more polite about it than I.

 

[BefriendedUnit]

the death metal vocals aren't driving the disc, with the exception of heir apparent. this means that when they come in they seem completely and utterly out of place. if opeth are gonna continue in this direction they're going to have to drop the screams altogether, they're not working. (still only 80% of the way through a second listen, opinions are subject to change).

Just becomes something's solely not driving the disc doesn't mean it's out of place when it is used. That's like saying the distorted guitars on Closure were out of place, because it was an album driven by clean guitar work.

 

[Cerberus III]

I think those that hate Watershed simply hate their own lives and want to die. And are also gay.

Anyone hate Watershed now?

 

[SerenityNow!]

nonsense, all western music is based around splitting an octave into 12 notes. limits are everywhere in the musical world. and the use of oboe on an album is an orchestral, rather than musical, choice imo.
Kristopher, it's more of an issue for me in Hessian Peel 5 minutes 40 in, when the whole death metal thing kicks in, in the most hamfisted way imaginable.

No, I'm not talking about 12-note limitations, I'm talking about the limitations on which instrument is "allowed" and/or how it's to be used. The use of ANY instrument is a musical choice. C'mon!

 

[Gëist]

the death metal vocals aren't driving the disc, with the exception of heir apparent. this means that when they come in they seem completely and utterly out of place. if opeth are gonna continue in this direction they're going to have to drop the screams altogether, they're not working. (still only 80% of the way through a second listen, opinions are subject to change).

Isahn screams on The Sham Mirrors by Arcturus just fit perfectly in the album. There's only one song on it with that black metal stuff. And it definitely has it's place.

 

[hibernal_dream]

rightyho, well i haven't put any limitations on opeth's music. they've put those oboes on there and that's the end of it, it's then up to us to talk about it- i thought i'd play a little devil's advocate because i didn't like them first time i heard them and wanted to know what others thought. but i don't appreciate being attacked for having a different opinion, i'd rather keep it clean.

You reminded me of a point i wanted to make, namely that Watershed is the simplest Opeth album. Adding frilly orchestration does not contribute to composition in the way it should, or the way it does in most orchestral music. I was hoping they would combine the new direction in macro-composition with the microcomposition shown Orchid and Morningrise, being their most compositionally complex albums.

 

[Heir Apparent]

Originally Posted by fps
"i may have been misconstrued- i personally don't WANT them to get rid of the growls, however i think they don't work with the direction they're heading in. by this you can probably tell i'm not delighted with the direction they're taking. i think burden is embarrassing.

"

That sucks for you man. I LOVE the direction they are moving in, you must not like prog music very much. Oh well not everyone can understand what they where going for on this album, but I sure do and I love the result.

 

[Windowpane87]

I think a lot of people are forgetting one IMPORTANT thing, Mikael is writing music for himself and not to please anyone. The SL, MAYH and BWP era is over, get over it. Watershed is incedible is many ways and the tenth album will be as shocking as Watershed is. All of my favorite bands have maybe 2 to 3 good records, Opeth has what .... 9 great records? How could anybody complain.

 

[Eternalnow]

"

That sucks for you man. I LOVE the direction they are moving in, you must not like prog music very much. Oh well not everyone can understand what they where going for on this album, but I sure do and I love the result.

Ha ha, you made me laugh. Thank you

Love the pretension and the egotism. Fits PERFECTLY with your Prog rock.

 

[Frosties]

"

That sucks for you man. I LOVE the direction they are moving in, you must not like prog music very much. Oh well not everyone can understand what they where going for on this album, but I sure do and I love the result.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you don't understand it - climb off your high horse for a bit. It's just not for everyone.

 

[Crepuscularia]

I was hoping they would combine the new direction in macro-composition with the microcomposition shown Orchid and Morningrise, being their most compositionally complex albums.

So what do you consider 'compositionally complex'? Endless, repetitive twin guitar counterpoint? Meandering songs that have no macro 'structure' whatsoever?

I think we're getting into pretty subjective territory here.... but I can see where you're coming from. Personally I enjoy the simplicity of some of the WS tracks, like Coil, or Hex Omega.

And the Lotus Eater; if that's not compositionally complex I don't know what is.

 

[Carl Hungus]

Lotus Eater is the first Opeth song that I do not like at all. I skip it every time now, and there are sections that get stuck in my head and they drive me nuts.

 

[Lenni]

I agree with everything fps has stated because that pretty much summarizes my opinion.
I don't "hate" Watershed but Opeth have lost too much of their sound and vibe with it IMO and so it's a disappointment.
I really like Heir Apparent and Lotus Eater but the rest just isn't as good "as usual". It's not an album i can fall in love with like all the others (except damnation) but it's also not a bad record either. Just doesn't live up to Opeth standards so I'm eagerly awaiting the next one (instead of flaming).

I write songs myself and I know how hard it is to come up with something special and with all the new members I kind of suspect, that Mikael didn't scrap as many melodies and riffs as usual.