What is it like to be a metal metalhead in America?

[Lina]

Originally posted by Blackspirit
Now, I have a point to make.... People wear gothclothes to chock you say....And get attention. So, every girl that's out there wearing almost nothing, looking sexy or whatever, they're just begging to get raped? The rapist sais; She's asking for it, she was dressed in this or that way.... And parents tell their doughters "Don't wear those clothes, people might get the
wrong idea." Now my view on this is; Why should the innocent ones change their style, life, whater? Shouldn't the "crazy" person be the one that has to change?! Men beat their wifes, the wife gets a new name and place to life, and everything has to be a secret. Why do they have to change when it's the man that does something bad?

This could easily turn into another discussion, but that's not what I want, I just want to prove a point. If I want to look and dress a certain way don't think more about it. It's just clothes (but also art, in my opinion ) ). It's all a matter of taste. And if people want attention for their clothes then so be it, they'll get it, cause we are all judging by looks.

I guess we just have a geniune difference of opinion on this, because, in my mind, this example backs up what I'm saying. I would have much less sympathy if some slutty (or drunk) girl was raped than if she had been fully clothed. No, I'm not saying she was asking for it, or that she deserved it. But she was naive -- she should know that wearing those clothes increases her risk of attracting some rapist's attention. Same goes for goth clothes -- the goth chick whining about people have the audacity to call her goth or to treat her like an outcast is comparable to the whore complaining of being raped.

~~~~~~~

Jim_LotFP:

Your post makes a lot of sense; I agree with most of it. And perhaps we're referring to two different types of dressing -- I'm speaking more about the over-the-top looks, not just some black pants with a black shirt. I never clearly said that, sorry.

But here's the gist of my point (and your contradiction):

You said, "Corpsepaint = BAD!! Immortal and Dimmu are obvious exceptions but even then, there's zero depth and meaning to any of it."

By your logic, one should make no judgments based on looks, so why would corpsepaint equal bad music? (I happen to agree with you that it does.) Because their desperate attempts to attract listeners by dressing outlandishly tell me that their music is probably lacking.

And you're absolutely right that all music has an image, and here's where I'm hypocritical, I guess. I view some images as silly and others as respectable (as do you, apparently, based on your run-down of the genres). Goth falls into the silly category, in my opinion.

 

[Frost of the sanctum]

I know I am a bit late on this topic but I may as well put my two cents in! Last night I was at a Dimmu Borgir concert and I couldent tell you how many "freaks" I saw there. Chicks in short, red, leather dresses wearing mickey mouse ears..... As if the bands care that she is putting her self on display. Now I am not judging anyone so most freaks wont have to tell me not to. LOL, but people who like metal in the U.S are usally met with a bit of jest and a bit of scorn, usally from our peers who are most likely "rapper g-mos" or "teen angst music linkin parkers". At the concert during Dimmu, when it was quiet in between songs, I screamed " VORTEX YOU FUCKING RULE!" he was about 15 feet from me, and everyone looked at me like "who the fuck is vortex?". Even though they were at a concert where Dimmu was headlining I bet you most of them were there to see Diabolic, or Krisiun. Some U.S metal heads do not know what the hell european metal is. So I get looks from even more people, from people who listen to deicide and slayer but say ?????? when I mention Blind Guardian. And if they hear them they make fun of them because they are not really metal because they are not "brutal enough" My whole point is we may sometimes have to face scorn from even people who really are somewhat the same as us.


If I have noticed one thing about scociety and U.S society in particular, they cant take responsibility for anything bad. If something bad happens they resort to one thing SCAPEGOATING! If it can be blamed on something else do it! Therefore if some crazy sick sob shoots up a school, its automatically the movies fault, the video games fault, or the musics fault. I am a senior in high school, and in weightlifting class I am reapediatly forced to listen to constant barrages of Linkin park, godsmack,drowning pool and other assorted bullshit. But one time I put in a Emperor cd and I immediatly heard "wtf is this?" "this fucking sucks!" "it sounds like they are trying to be master of puppets!" and concequently it got turned off, and I got a lecture from a jock about how that was horrible bullshit (he must have been looking in a mirror).



Now to move on, I have many band shirts all of which have some sort of pentagram or upside down cross (the one I bought last night has satan himself on the front), and no I am not a satanist or even an atheist I am a borderline agnostic. This teacher in my first period class is a bible thumper, and whenever she sees me she gives me the dirtiest look I have ever gotten. So I cant even wear a shirt without getting crap.


What was said before is also very true, metal musicians get NO recognition from anyone but us (in the us at least, Dimmu won the norwegian grammies so atleast in europe they do). I am gonna say this and I am not holding back! People say Jimmi hendrix was the greatest guitarist ever.......BULLSHIT! Mikael could blow him out of the water and sing as well. People over here are sometimes to caught up on the classics "no band will ever be better than the beatles!" Which further undermines the talent of metal.


So to awnser your question, metal life in the U.S sucks! We get no respect, and neither does the music! I do not see this changing at all, in any country. The U.S is just hyper sensitive (and hyper gay!) about metal. If someone says Aaliyah dies everyone sobs and its on the news for a thousand hours. Someone says Chuck Schuldiner dies people say: Who the fuck is Chuck Schuldiner? And no one gives a damn. That is the sad, hiporitical, blind, conformist attitude of metal in America that we have to live with every day.

 

[Belial]

Originally posted by Cutter
hehe....try being into metal AND roleplaying games.

Cliche's are cliche's for a reason.

I know what you mean.

 

[MetalManCPA]

Originally posted by Lina
I guess we just have a geniune difference of opinion on this, because, in my mind, this example backs up what I'm saying. I would have much less sympathy if some slutty (or drunk) girl was raped than if she had been fully clothed. No, I'm not saying she was asking for it, or that she deserved it. But she was naive -- she should know that wearing those clothes increases her risk of attracting some rapist's attention. Same goes for goth clothes -- the goth chick whining about people have the audacity to call her goth or to treat her like an outcast is comparable to the whore complaining of being raped.

This is a pretty difficult topic to get your arms around.

On one hand - you go to the store, and there are all these wildly interesting clothes there. Some are provacative, some dark and dreary, some way out in left field - but they are there to be purchased.

On the other hand - you have society. You have various groups looking at your style and appearance, and commenting on it. You have the conservatives, who say "blend", not to stand out. Then others say you should be an "individual" - be yourself.

How am I to assume by a persons dress if they are being an individual or just a sad case of "following" a trend, or trying to make a statement? I can't. Therefore - there is not much I can say to how a person is dressed unless I really knew that person. My wife & I discuss this topic often (with a 16 year-old daughter to worry about). As with all people - we draw a line. Our line is one based on the sexual risks in this world. We wouldn't want our daughter looking like Jennifer Lopez or L'il Kim did on those music awards a year or two back - to us, that WOULD be assumed to be asking for it. The goth look, on the other hand, isn't as much sexual as it is statement driven. Why look so outlandish to the conservative world? Why choose to look different then the masses - are you forcing your individualism, or do you just plain like the look. It's the reasoning behind the dress that is important to me. If you truley just like the look - whatever (even though others may think different). But if you have some "purpose", like you think you look tough, or are all that, or need to fit in - then that is a shallow reason to look as such.

I have my tastes. I wear lots of black - but conservatively. I've gone to work in all balck - with the black leather jacket to boot. Of course i get comments - like where's the morgue, etc. The Hot Topic look - I'm not sure why, other then a specific event - you would dress in some of those clothes on a daily basis. But - to each his own.

As I said before (and as Lina has alluded) - just don't be naive. You need to know how society reacts to a look - and know the risk. Is the look silly? To some yes, to others, no. It's all about personal preference.

 

[Jim LotFP]

Originally posted by Lina
By your logic, one should make no judgments based on looks, so why would corpsepaint equal bad music? (I happen to agree with you that it does.) Because their desperate attempts to attract listeners by dressing outlandishly tell me that their music is probably lacking.

eek, did I say no judgements (and damn it, why it this word properly spelled with no E? That makes no sense! Judgment looks like it should be pronounced 'Judd-guh-ment' silly silly! Judge+ment!!!) should be made on appearance?

My argument was (supposed to be) against the idea that identifying yourself with a group through the way you dress being a bad thing by definition.

 

[MetalManCPA]

Originally posted by Frost of the sanctum
I know I am a bit late on this topic but I may as well put my two cents in! Last night I was at a Dimmu Borgir concert and I couldent tell you how many "freaks" I saw there. Chicks in short, red, leather dresses wearing mickey mouse ears..... As if the bands care that she is putting her self on display. Now I am not judging anyone so most freaks wont have to tell me not to.

I noticed the same thing when I went to the concert last week. There was as much wild dressing as I ever saw in one place.

 

[AlexiFollower]

Originally posted by Blood On My Hands
Have any of you ever had people think that an Opeth shirt said Oprah?

hahaha, my friend said that the other day, cause he was reading the band names on my backpack and he was like 'dude, why the hell do you fucking listening to Oprah' and i started yelling at him for saying that.

but for being a metalhead in america sucks, most of my friends listen to the nu metal shit which i think is crap. there is at most 5 people who listen to actual metal, if you can call old Metallica metal. its cool cause i'm getting my girlfriend to like most of the stuff i listen to like Opeth, CoB, Sinergy(she loves the vocals), and she also loves most of the classical stuff listen to. dammit getting of track of the america metalhead thing. so yeah it really sucks cause my friends that listen to nu metal automaticly assume that i listen to just regular death metal like Cannibal Corpse type stuff which i really dont like that much of.

so being an american really sucks!

love live fucking real metal and Europe!!! haha mainly Finland

 

[Jim LotFP]

Originally posted by Frost of the sanctum
People say Jimmi hendrix was the greatest guitarist ever.......BULLSHIT! Mikael could blow him out of the water and sing as well. People over here are sometimes to caught up on the classics "no band will ever be better than the beatles!" Which further undermines the talent of metal.

I fully agree with the sentiment, but statements like this made by metal fans undermines the talent of metal.

Is Mikael changing the way his audience looks at guitar the way Jimi did with his audience?

And I don't like most of their stuff, but I don't even think it is possible for anybody to change the idea of what 'a band' can and should do the way the Beatles did.

You have to look at this from a historical perspective. Is Mikael a better guitar player than Hendrix in an objective sense? I couldn't say for sure, but I'd suspect so, mainly because Jimi's style was being copied and practiced before Mikael was even born, so when he first picked up the guitar, Hendrix was already part of that instrument, those paths didn't need to be walked down for the first time ever...

Metal is great and exists because people like Hendrix and the Beatles came before to tear down walls.

 

[speed]

I have two ideas based on American metal. First is that we Americans are quite ignorant of anything of quality, we are a nation that stands for capitalism, if it doesnt sell to a wide audience it sucks in american terms. Second i never have understood why people love metal or any other music so damn much, that they dress socialize etc based on their musical preference.
Capitalism is our governing principle, trust me on this one, I am in law school, and the laws against companies etc, are a joke. American law never seeks to harm anyone in business, at least big business. Furthermore for any form`of art to be great in america, it has had to sell to a wide audience, movies are very obvious, if the movie doesnt do alot of business, it will not be considered great, no one cares, books are the same, there are some rare instances like scorsese etc, music seems to suffer the same stigma in the United States, if it doesnt sell it is not good. I know this is a very old debate, does a artist author etc create a great work of art if the public doent like it, There is an excellent essay by Tolstoy on this subject. Thus since about every metal band doesnt sell well, americans dont care until they do, and this is the reason i have friends playing disturbed etc, and not symphony x.
The second subject of metal image, really is an enigma to me. I never have understood how people create their social lives and outward appearances based on their favorite music genre. It seems to be a problem of youth, although their are a few hippies still out there. I suppose we need to feel part of some sort of a group, but man if you are in the US wearing a emperor shirt, you are in a group all of your own, which is not horrible. But when you wear a emperor etc shirt, isnt that just a form of vanity as well. I mean it has nothing to do with the music which is the objective form of art which we all worship in this forum. The whole outward metal appearance is just worldly and subjective. Who cares if you have long hair and a emperor shirt on, the music is all that matters.

I do have the dream of wearing sweatpants and white t shirts everywhere, but society is too strong, especially the legal society, sorry for my rantings.

 

[Jim LotFP]

Originally posted by Silent Downfall
i have one more rant. whenever i listen to children of bodom, people constantly make fun of the way he sings. they're always like "hey look i can sing like that guy <makes incoherent hissing and choking sounds with their voice>" that pisses me off so much.

Me too. Children of Bodom really needs a better vocalist.

Originally posted by Silent Downfall
some ask if i can understand it, im like uh no but i dont care about lyrics, then they're like "YOU DONT CARE ABOUT LYRICS??" like it's a sin.

Well, um, yeah, it pretty much is.

 

[Morningrise]

Well I am late on the topic, but I will express my opinion.
First off I am a 15 year old that goes to an school known as "The Science Academy": it is basically an accelerated school, that you apply to, etc... There are absolutely NO PEOPLE that listen to the same music as me, but I find that these people are much more open minded. I show my friends (which consist of anything from gamers, to nerds) my music and they are able to appreciate it. I have played Falkenbach for a friend and he really liked it, I just gave a guy some Nokturnal Mortum today. Sure they don't ever really end up getting into it, but it is still interesting.
As for how I dress I guess you would think I am a metalhead, usually it is just normal pants with a band shirt, but it is usually always all black (dammit band shirts are always black) and I have loooooong hair: longer than most of the girls at my school, which is odd. I enjoy the music on a personal level, and it helps me so much in every possible way. When I feel the need to communicate about this music that is where the internet comes in, which is really a life saver. I am often stereotyped as "evil" or whatever, but I am pretty charismatic and talkative so that stereotype seems to go away with people, but we often joke about it. I am happy because I have friends that I respect, be it with the same interests or not. One guy told me a while back ago that I was one of the most unique people he has ever met because I have so many qualities that are rare together, I take that as probably one of the biggest compliments I have recieved. SO in terms of me being a metalhead, I listen to the music, and it makes me more happy than anything else ever will, I don't need to look it, or live it (even though I DEFINATELY do to an extent).

 

[Lina]

Originally posted by Blood On My Hands
Have any of you ever had people think that an Opeth shirt said Oprah? I get that all the time for some reason.

Haha, you're not alone. I actually posted a thread several months ago called "Opeth vs. Oprah" about this very topic, because it happened several times to me in one day. But now I can't find it! Damn search function!

 

[Blood On My Hands]

Originally posted by Lina
Haha, you're not alone. I actually posted a thread several months ago called "Opeth vs. Oprah" about this very topic, because it happened several times to me in one day. But now I can't find it! Damn search function!

Although I didn't see that thread, I had pretty much assumed that others had the same experience I did. Good to know I'm not the only one. Stupid, ignorant people..I hope...this would happen to them! Ha! :hotjump:

 

[Obyeybyeogone]

No one has thought my Opeth shirt said Oprah, but one time a girl asked me what my shirt said, I responded saying Opeth, she then asks me, what is it? I reply "It's a band..", then she asks me "Do you listen to them", I gave her a look like.. "What do you think..." and said "yess."

 

[Blood On My Hands]

Originally posted by Oyo
No one has thought my Opeth shirt said Oprah, but one time a girl asked me what my shirt said, I responded saying Opeth, she then asks me, what is it? I reply "It's a band..", then she asks me "Do you listen to them", I gave her a look like.. "What do you think..." and said "yess."

Ha, that's pretty good. Ever see and hear them try and pronounce Opeth themselves? Their brows furrowing in concentration, trying desperately to get it right. But they still don't. That's where the real humor is. I've heard all sorts of words that don't even come close. Heh.

 

[jimbobhickville]

judgement and judgment are both correct spellings, or at least they were both in the dictionary last time I looked it up. I prefer judgment 'cause it's one fewer letter to type, mwa ha ha!!

 

[Total Jock]

Originally posted by Silent Downfall

i have one more rant. whenever i listen to children of bodom, people constantly make fun of the way he sings. they're always like "hey look i can sing like that guy <makes incoherent hissing and choking sounds with their voice>" that pisses me off so much.

Yeah, I hear ya... it's like, sure anyone can growl, just like anyone can sing... but just like there's great singing and bad singing, there's great growling/screaming and bad growling/screaming. It's just that to the untrained ear, it's hard to hear the differences between good and bad metal growling.

 

[Ihsahn]

Ave comrades,

Here in "Al'bama" almost no one knows what the hell I listen to, or anything about it. I have only met one person who listens to Dimmu Borgir, Rotting Christ, Cradle of Filth, and other such bands. It gets a little lonely sometimes However, I have managed to convert one of my sparsely few friends into an Opeth fan He has already burned a copy of BWP and MAYH. Now I just hope I can get him into Katatonia and Edge of Sanity. I already tried Ulver and he said they were ok, but I don't really think black metal is his thing. On the other hand, I have gotten a friend of mine into Extol and Ebony Tears. Hopefully I will have a few metalhead friends before I graduate.

Sorry about coming in here on and off, I'm just really busy with school. It is easier to talk on AIM, so if anyone cares my SN is Primordial Abyss.

From the ancient oceans,

Chris the True™ one

 

[Wolfman Von Jones]

In responce to the Dimmu in Chicago last night post.

Dimmu can lick my penis face, Cryptopsy got fucked on sound and on time b/c thsoe face fucks had to get on stage and wear leather dresses, and I partied and got really intoxicated with Cryptopsy after the show and it kicked fucking ass, so fuck Dimmu. There were also abunch of people wearing chainmail there it was humorous.

 

[BillowOfZeal]

But let me take this opportunity to say I hate people who dress like a "metalhead," because that usually means they ARE trying to look evil. (My hatred goes for all groups whose clothing defines them.) No wonder there are so many misconceptions concerning metal, since the "metalheads" go out of their way to look gothic, evil and morose. They give metal just as bad a name as white boys in visors and baggy pants give rap a bad name. Argh.

uke:

It is called fashion and NO ONE should be ridiculed for there choice of clothing. And when my brain is computing and shit to tell me what I want to wear, it is MY brain. Metal is a VERY large part of my life hence being a part of the computing process.
"Metal clothing" is also a social billboard advertising my interests in order to draw the attention of someone with similar tastes in hopes of gaining a friend.

Same goes with everything, even goth!!!!!!