What is the purpose of an argument?

Belial

Rainbow Demon
Nov 18, 2001
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jason.storiesfrom.us
:lol: This one's for you, Jannet.

What is the purpose of an argument to you? I believe that we argue as a way of getting inside the head of the person we're arguing with, like how you'd argue politics with a friend to see what he thinks of the Bush administration, etc.

The main purpose of arguments, however, is to enrich your mind by testing your ideas against the ideas of others. In a successful argument you will leave with not only a deeper understanding of the person you just argued with, but your own thoughts on the topic of debate will have evolved and adapted to the new information gleaned from the discussion. If one's ideas remain the same from debate to debate then those ideas are either absolute truth, or that person's mindset is too fixed on the idea that his or her ideas are absolute truth.

Arguments are fruitless when aproached with a black-and-white, right-and-wrong perspective. They go nowhere if your goal is to "win" the argument. To gain the most out of an argument, it is neccesary to understand that in an argument, all ideas are subjective unless presented from an official source. Including your own. A general rule of thumb is: "However unlikely as it may seem, it's alway possible that the other may be right, and you may be wrong, and vice-verca"

However, don't confuse my use of "right" and "wrong" as an absolute. "Right" and "Wrong" merely refers to the accuracy of your idea on a single point of an argument, not the totality of your ideas, for in the end there is rarely a "right" or a "wrong" (unless of course the information can be confirmed by an official source), there is only "sense" and "senseless"

That said, it is best to keep an open-mind, and understand that an argument is not a competition, but a quest for deeper knowledge. It helps test and strengthen your thoughts and ideas by adapting them to the thoughts and ideas of others.
 
argue: v. To put forth reasons for or against; debate. 2. To maintain by reasoning; contend. 3. To give evidence of. 4. To QUARREL; dispute.

argument: n. 1. A discussion of different points of view; debate. 2. A quarrel; dispute. 3. A COURSE OF REASONING AIMED AT DEMONSTRATING TRUTH OR FALSEHOOD. 4. A persuasive reason.

And don't tell me it's 'black and white.' This is what a fucking argument is, and you can't go twisting it to what you fucking feel like twisting it to..You want to go abstract and insightful? Go for it. Me? I'll keep it simple.
 
And don't tell me it's 'black and white.' This is what a fucking argument is, and you can't go twisting it to what you fucking feel like twisting it to..You want to go abstract and insightful? Go for it. Me? I'll keep it simple.

No. You generalize... And i'll be there every single time to shoot you down. :lol:
 
You have visions of grandeur, don't cha, buddy... You'll shoot me down? I don't give a rat's ass how you view my responses..you don't have to answer them, but you choose to do so. If you get your kicks thinking you're so clever by THINKING that you're shooting me down, and if that's how you want to spend the rest of your life, go right the hell ahead...

And I don't fucking generalize. I'n all my posts, I say "people tend", "usually", "some people." This makes it QUITE CLEAR that I'm not lumping every fucking body into the point I'm trying to make. So nyah...
 
Originally posted by Jannet
argue: v. To put forth reasons for or against; debate. 2. To maintain by reasoning; contend. 3. To give evidence of. 4. To QUARREL; dispute.

Yes, that is an accurate definition.

argument: n. 1. A discussion of different points of view; debate. 2. A quarrel; dispute. 3. A COURSE OF REASONING AIMED AT DEMONSTRATING TRUTH OR FALSEHOOD. 4. A persuasive reason.

Why do I get the feeling you're trying to tell me something? :lol:

Yes, arguments hold truths and falshoods, if the subject of debate holds truths and falsehoods, but you fail to see that isn't the point. The point is strengthening your own views by testing them against the views of others. That includes adapting your views when certain points are proved to be false or "senseless" as I put it.

And don't tell me it's 'black and white.' This is what a fucking argument is, and you can't go twisting it to what you fucking feel like twisting it to..You want to go abstract and insightful? Go for it. Me? I'll keep it simple.

:lol: Is it me, or is it whenever you get into a dispute with someone you accuse them of twisting words? You've done it to Wolff and you've CERTAINLY done it to Lina, now me, eh?

Anyway, I sense some unwarrented hostility in this part of your reply. Please try to calm down, as I've seen you do tend to get irrational when you lose your cool.
 
Originally posted by Sullen Jester
To educate; to learn; to evolve your mind.

Jannet - enough dictionary meanings!

Why, because they're true and go totally against what the hell you think it means? No, I will NOT stop posting definitions. If you frickin knew what a word meant, instead of just THINKING you know what a word meant, there wouldn't be a problem..

To educate; to learn; to evolve your mind: I'll learn a new language.
 
You have visions of grandeur, don't cha, buddy... You'll shoot me down? I don't give a rat's ass how you view my responses..you don't have to answer them, but you choose to do so. If you get your kicks thinking you're so clever by THINKING that you're shooting me down, and if that's how you want to spend the rest of your life, go right the hell ahead...

note the use of: :lol: in my post.

...But now you've done it. I officially have a grudge against you.
 
So?
We don't know the meaning of "argument"? Is that it?
The definition of the word won't always tell you practical uses of it.

And I don't fucking generalize. I'n all my posts, I say "people tend", "usually", "some people." This makes it QUITE CLEAR that I'm not lumping every fucking body into the point I'm trying to make. So nyah...

That is still generalising, "so nyah"

:p

Cheers
 
Is it me, or is it whenever you get into a dispute with someone you accuse them of twisting words? You've done it to Wolff and you've CERTAINLY done it to Lina, now me, eh?

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. How the hell have I accused them of twisting words? Give me an example, and I'll shut the fuck up. Why, because Lina blatantly said "you're not an ideal parent," and Wolff called me a stupid bitch? How can you twist something so cut and dry? What can you possibly say to defend these terms directed to a person they don't even know? I'm sure you'll find something..others have, I've heard: "don't take Wolff seriously, most likely he was just being funny" "once you learn how to deal with Wolff's behavior, he'll then respect you" "Wolff is full of so much satirical wit, once you're here long enough, you'll think it's funny too, even if it seems like he's insulting you" and on Lina's behalf "she's one of the most marvelous posters I've seen, and she gets heated in abortion threads, and you were on her bad receiving end." "but you MIGHT have had a valid grievance, judging by the abortion thread" Might? What the hell?
 
Originally posted by Jannet

And don't tell me it's 'black and white.' This is what a fucking argument is, and you can't go twisting it to what you fucking feel like twisting it to..You want to go abstract and insightful? Go for it. Me? I'll keep it simple.

And just so I can't be accused of evading the statement.

If you read my post I merely stated what I believe is the purpose of an argument. I refered to you in the begining because our recent discussions inspired the topic.

You will also notice that my original post was completely objective. I said nothing for or against you, and beyond the first sentance I never refered to you specifically at all. It was YOU who jumped the gun and YOU who assumed I'm trying to twist your words.

I hoped that you would state your definition of an argument so we can argue about it and perhaps come to understand each other better, but seeing as you are intent on going on an angry, dictionary quoting, tirade, I see no more point in persuing this discussion.

Unless of course you are willing to check your personal feelings towards me at the door and debate like a rational adult.
 
Originally posted by Belial


And just so I can't be accused of evading the statement.

If you read my post I merely stating what I believe is the purpose of an argument. I refered to you in the begining because our recent discussions inspired the topic.

You will also notice that my original post was completely objective. I said nothing for or against you, and beyond the first sentance I never refered to you specifically at all. It was YOU who jumped the gun and YOU who assumed I'm trying to twist your words.

I hoped that you would state your definition of an argument so we can argue about it and perhaps come to understand each other better, but seeing as you are intent on going on an angry, dictionary quoting, tirade, I see no more point in persuing this discussion.

Unless of course you are willing to check your personal feelings towards me at the door and debate like a rational adult.

*breathes deeply*...when I said "you can't go twisting it" it didn't mean that you DID ALREADY!! It was stated just in case you were planning on doing it. Geez....

I already posted my definition of an argument. What, that's not enough for you? So what if it's a dictionary definition? Not every thread requires a thoughtful, insightful response. An argument to me is what is in the dictionary, simply and truly.
 
If your going to turn your whole posts into a dictionary, I might as well say what Wolff told to me:

I don't mind taking an hour or two and sitting down to have a debate with you, but theres no point if your not the one saying it

You may think "What's that got to do with me? It's just a single meaning!" but to me it's a lot more.

You post the official, dictionary meaning as if noone else knows it. And that is your whole post, your addition to the argument. It's as if you're not even taking part in the actual argument - your the mouthpiece for the dictionary.

I most likely sound like a twat now, but I shall post nonetheless - I believe in freedom to speak your mind (FUCK CENSORSHIP), no matter how twattish it may seem.

So, post your thoughts, YOUR thoughts, not something not written by you. Use them as references, yes, but not the whole post.
 
Originally posted by Jannet


*breathes deeply*...when I said "you can't go twisting it" it didn't mean that you DID ALREADY!! It was stated just in case you were planning on doing it. Geez....

I already posted my definition of an argument. What, that's not enough for you? So what if it's a dictionary definition? Not every thread requires a thoughtful, insightful response. An argument to me is what is in the dictionary, simply and truly.

Ah, I understand now.

But surely you have a personal feeling or opinion on the subject? I am well aware of the dictionary definition, but arguments have a special significanse in my life. I've learned a lot. I've been proven wrong and proved others wrong. Mostly, though, no one was proven wrong but we both still learned a lot from our statements.

Which is why I made this topic. I think the best way to get to know a person is to have a battle of ideas. So I guess you can consider this my way of expressing an interest in you as a person, and in anyone who so chooses to join the discussion.
 
Originally posted by Sullen Jester
So?
We don't know the meaning of "argument"? Is that it?
The definition of the word won't always tell you practical uses of it.



That is still generalising, "so nyah"

:p

Cheers

Hmmmm...so how should I avoid generalizing? Let's see. Instead of "some people tend to eat ice cream from a cone," I'll say "a blonde haired blue-eyed person, a brown haired brown-eyed person, a red-haired green eyed person tend to eat ice cream from a cone, nah..too damn general, so only some brown-haired brown-eyed people, and red-haired, and purple-haired, and black haired...no, that would be too general too...ok, a brown-haired blue-eyed with tongue ring..no, that would be too specific...hmmmm, this poses a dilemma..how can I not be too generalizing or too specific? Oooohhhh...I'll just leave it at "some people eat ice cream from a cone " That implies that not all people do it, hence SOME.
 
You're either specific, or generalising.

The thing I was pointing out was, you claimed NOT to be generalising, yet you were.

We all do it, whethe we like it all not.

We live in the shadow of hypocrisy.