Argument over guitarists

Opeth's acoustic guitarwork is hardly near the "classical" category. Yes, JP is technically far above Mike is. I doubt Mike is holding back and even if he were it's unlikely that it would even touch JP's overall skill.
This is kind of like comparing Mike to Joe Satriani ... technically, there is no damn comparison. Big deal.

As far as "technically" who the better guitarist is between Mike and Schuldiner ... Chuck wins. Schuldiner was constantly improving with each release, by the time "Sound of Perseverence" and "The Fragile Art of Existence" rolled around, he was a top notch guitarist. And better than Mike as well.
In regard to their skills in songwriting, they both have written great songs. Death's is far harder in complexity. Playing the work that Mike, Peter, and the two Martin's have put out is one thing ... yet to play the work Schuldiner, Masvidal, Digiorio, or Hoglan is entirely different.

Any musician Chuck had by his side is more advanced than the guys in Opeth (I'm a big fan of Opeth, so I'm not cutting them).
But in the end what does it matter? Mike has written some amazing songs and performed some memorable guitarwork.
 
:worship:
dorian gray said:
it's nice to read some thoughtful posts. im glad to hear some folks realize that JP is a better guitar player than MA. it's also interesting to hear some peoples thoughts that MA is a better songwriter. probably true in some ways but i wonder how in the world anyone can explain that. songwriting is 100% subjective. you either like them or you don't. whereas, technical ability is measureable and quantifiable. so, within the context of minion520's original argument, he's probably wrong - JP is better than MA. and he's only wrong because his bases for the converse are non-measureable items like "feel" and "emotion" and "originality". these can mean anything to anyone and are thus useless in such an argument.
but of course, this is all in good fun and theres no real reason to compare guitarists. just as theres no reason to waste time in chat rooms and forums when we should all be practicing guitar instead.....so we can be better than MA and JP, heh heh.
Click to expand...

maybe you're right. Maybe it's just labrie's cheese vocals that make me dislike DT. Sometimes he's alright...I like the ballads they come up with when he isn't worbling like a bitch and ruins all the heavier songs I've ever heard.

I think if Mikael did the vocals for DT...they'd be a much better band.
 
I understand that technicality is the easiest aspect of guitaring to judge objectively, yet when we say 'songwriting' and MA wins out on almost everyone's count, what exactly is that saying to us? Perhaps it's the fact that we are on the Opeth forum and everybody favours Opeth over DT here. Perhaps, but wouldn't that suggest alot of people also ignorantly playing up Mike's technical ability in defense? Perhaps its a fluke of nature we're seeing.

Or perhaps subjectivity also has its place when trying to ascertain quantifiable truths. It is all a matter of taste, however, I think any borderline sane musician will tell you that Opeth's music is composed and presented in a manner which is inherently more 'insightful' and 'emotion-filled'. The reason is that DT restrict themselves to the bounds of having to be technical in almost anything they do. Being technical is a staple of their sound, and through that they sacrifice compositional credibility.

Opeth on the other hand write using the 'ear', not text-book progressions and tried-and-true formulas. Perhaps this is out of lack of technical ability - or perhaps the guys just like doing it this way. In any case, the result ends up being music that is far more varied, interesting and refreshing than the stuff that DT keep churning out.

They are bands that appeal to two wholly different markets, yet I think if we were to get fans of both bands who were as unbiased as humanly possible, we would see that trend of 'Petrucci = technical', 'Mikael = emotional' would prevail.

Calling Mike 'emotional' may be hard to justify - yet to the average listener, it is instinctually evident that this is indeed the case.
 
abcdefg said:
john.jpg


Petrucci is better.
Click to expand...

This picture scares me to no end.

I'm glad to see people posting intelligent stuff without saying OPETH > DT!1!11! or anything like that.

I find it funny how so many of these 'Who's better, X or X' threads have such a rather large amount of posts in comparison to some others - it goes to show the varying opinions on the subjectivity of music; and in this vein, there is no better or worse - simply a matter of personal preference.

But, I may as well have my little go at summing up my view on the differences between the guitarists, although i'm not sure that i'll say anything that's different from anyone else here has said...I just like voicing my opinion.

Petrucci is no doubt an amazing guitarist, his technicality is unparallel to Mike. Although, as we know Mike writes songs without knowing much, if any, theory at all. Personally, I find this very fascinating, and just adds to the feel of each Opeth song - basically, it's no doubt 'straight from the heart', without any technical hinderances. I say this because a lot of Dream Theater's work is based on technicality. Not to say that it is without emotion, but often I feel that their music is slightly restricted by their 'calculated' songwriting.

However I wont go as far to say as who's a better guitarist, but I will say that my personal preference is Mikey. :Spin:
 
Well...I really haven't read completely every reply...but, IMO Mikael considers himself more a musician than a guitarist...and he writes and plays progressive/art ROCK combined with death metal...as well as singing, he is self taught...
...on the other hand, dt's jp plays and writes progressive METAL, he prefers being a nice guitarist, not necessarily a shredder, and studied at Berklee...

Note the difference of METAL and ROCK...and if it's considered progressive that doesn't mean it has to be technical...and please, stop comparing...I think each genre and musician has their own territory...maybe mikael and jp don't even care about this thread...
 
While i like Mikael as a composer and songwriter, i think neither he nor Petrucci is a good guitarist. As players, theyre average. Petrucci has no soul, and Mikael isn't that good technical-wise. A GOOD Player combines both.
 
mot- said:
While i like Mikael as a composer and songwriter, i think neither he nor Petrucci is a good guitarist. As players, theyre average. Petrucci has no soul, and Mikael isn't that good technical-wise. A GOOD Player combines both.
Click to expand...
Are you seriously saying that Åkerfeldt and Petrucci aren't GOOD (competent/skilled) guitarists?

Name few GOOD guitarists.
 
mot- said:
While i like Mikael as a composer and songwriter, i think neither he nor Petrucci is a good guitarist. As players, theyre average. Petrucci has no soul, and Mikael isn't that good technical-wise. A GOOD Player combines both.
Click to expand...

You obsviously aren't a guitar player. This is just plain blasphemy.
 
Both are competent, but not good (good meaning .. outstanding..great)

So heres my subjective list:

Good/Great guitar player:
+Technical Ability
+Use of Technical ability contributes to the song, and doesn't merely exist for itself
+Plays with "spirit"
+Compositing skills
(+Able to read and write sheet music, basical understanding of musical theory)

So let's see:
Mikael Akerfeld
- Technical Ability
- Use of Technical ability contributes to the song, and doesn't merely exist for itself
+ Plays with "spirit"
+ Wrote some decent stuff
(- Able to read and write sheet music, basical understanding of musical theory) [dunno]

Petrucci:
+ Technical Ability
- Use of Technical ability contributes to the song, and doesn't merely exist for itself
- Plays with "spirit"
+/- Wrote some decent stuff
(+ Able to read and write sheet music, basical understanding of musical theory) [dunno about that]

Average.
 
Your requirements are seemingly ludicrous, until one thinks about it and realizes that both guitarists match almost all criteria adequately.

Mikael DOES play with technical ability. Opeth stuff may not be the hardest in the world to play, but it's taken me 3 and a half years of playing guitar to be able to play it with the level of fluency that Opeth execute it with. Don't be ignorant - they have been playing for decades, they DO know their shit.

Technical ability contributes to the song... hmm, when is this ever the case? Are you perhaps reffering to Baroque/Classical era stuff? I think a situation like that is hardly comparable, as the whole style of music was built around the theoretic form.

What is 'spirit'?

What is 'decent stuff'?

Both, at the very least, understand basic music theory. Mike may deny using it, but he has all the fundamentals in his solos and some riffs. Petrucci bases his whole style around knowing scales, progressions and the like, so you'd expect him to have an advanced knowledge of the stuff. Actually, come to think of it, how does this even correlate to a guitarist's competency? It is simply different prefferences.

If they are indeed average players, then a good 90%+ are very below average.
 
I've been playing classical guitar for more than a decade now, so my requirements may indeed be a tad high.

Technical Ability contributes to the song:
Listen to a few Drake songs, or Roche, King, (Fripp) and so on. These guys can play technical, but know how to use it wisely, without scale-overkill like Petrucci.
Spirit:Emotion
Decent stuff:GOOD MUSIC
How musical theory relates to a guitarists competency: Improvisation needs musical theory.

Remember. It's my OPINION. As with the interpretation of the term "good guitarist".
 
A few..

Metheny, Fripp, Segovia, Hendrix, Jansch, Satriani, Vaughan, Ribot, Legg, Hedges, Page, Andress, Lucia, Bream, Russell, Roche and so on.
 
i agree on some...but how has satriani more composing skills and more emotion than petrucci?

anyways emotion (as stated above many times) is a personal thing and cannot be judged. therefore your definition of a good guitarist doesnt make sense when sharing it with others (it might may sense for yourself tho...)


PS: segovia rules...but metheny Xx ...wtf?
 
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