Argument over guitarists

[[KOTNO]Narrot]

ppl should check out an evening with jordan rudess and john petrucci...great stuff.

everything else has been said: john is technically better and the rest is matter of preferences...

 

[Nuk3m]

Too different to even compare them in my books as musicians, its easier to just compare their hair and ask yourself who has the sexier "do". (mikael of course)

 

[suislidE]

Petrucci used to have long hair.. i assume you know that, but sounds like you dont.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

Petrucci is better.

 

[ethereallights]

Personally, I find Mikael to be a better musician then JP. JP's music is not original, and it has the same vibe to all of his works. It's quite ironic that a band in the "progressive metal/rock" genre hasn't progressed in overall sound from the first couple of albums.
Mikael does things that are unpredictable, and out of the norm. Just listen to "Still Life" and then listen to any other Dream Theater album. You can basically predict where DT is going in the song, but with Opeth, you can always find something new when you listen to their albums, and there is no way to predict how the song is going to turn out.
No one really knows what to expect from the next Opeth CD. WE ALL KNOW how DT's next album is going to turn out.

 

[Evil Ernie]

john is technically better and the rest is matter of preferences...

That really sums it up.
And for those who say that JP's playing isn't original, I have three litlle letters for ya.
WTF?!??!

 

[G-Master]

thats what i said. however, i do care. since the argument here is who is "better", theres only one way to talk about that and it's technical ability. of course, all this is in good fun but seriously, thats the only way. you can only compare what you can quantify, things such as speed or whatever.
theres no reason JP cant play mikes stuff (because *i* can play it, and i suck) but it's highly doubtful MA could play JP's stuff, based on the paraphrase above from the man himself.

Indeed. Technically, Mikael couldn't touch JP in any way on the fretboard. From his shredding, vibrato, whammy bar stunts, etc. he is far above Mike. You can claim Mike hasn't shown his full abilities entirely the past ten years but I think he has, while steadily improving to the point he is now. Which even now is not at JP's level.
However, JP does nothing but blaze up and down the fretboard 200 miles an hour and nothing else. It is merely a blur of notes that he puts out. Some here claim he has many emotional solos. Yet most the songs they listed are ten years old.
Sure, "Osmosis" had some "feel" to it. So did "Learning To Live" and "Lines In The Sand" ... they're old. He hasn't done anything like that in awhile. He needs to learn that shredding isn't everything. But try telling any DT member that. :Smug:

in a different vein: im sick of hearing about style and feel. come on people, they are both playing electric guitars that are channeled through amplifiers and about a million different effects. anyone playing the same instrument can conceivably play with the same "style" and "feel" and "emotion". all they have to do is figure out what the setup is. it's not rocket science. theyre not doing something special with their hands that no one else knows how to do.
with the argument that MA is a better player because of his style, well, then youll also have to say kurt cobain was really good. but he wasnt. he sucked bad.
this thread rules

Excellent point, man.

Oh and also ... "Epilogue" is better than anything JP has ever put out. The guitar tone on MAYH is outstanding, and provides an ethereal mood to the opus. This alone is better than anything JP has done.
Mike may not be capable of spitting out a blur of notes like Petrucci can, but I'll take Akerfeldt's work over John's anyday.

 

[deliverance]

Petrucci is better.

wow, i actually have only seen petrucci with long hair, cause i have the metropolis dvd, and i don't look at current pictures or anything, so..i thought that was wes borland from limp penis, i mean limp bizkit...no i meant penis actually.

petrucci looks pretty gay now.

 

[suislidE]

Please tell me thats a tampered pic... if its not he looks like a sell out from.. yea i agree with you.

 

[Dobbit]

Personally, I find Mikael to be a better musician then JP. JP's music is not original, and it has the same vibe to all of his works. It's quite ironic that a band in the "progressive metal/rock" genre hasn't progressed in overall sound from the first couple of albums.
Mikael does things that are unpredictable, and out of the norm. Just listen to "Still Life" and then listen to any other Dream Theater album. You can basically predict where DT is going in the song, but with Opeth, you can always find something new when you listen to their albums, and there is no way to predict how the song is going to turn out.
No one really knows what to expect from the next Opeth CD. WE ALL KNOW how DT's next album is going to turn out.

Ehm..... Petrucci writes with the same vibe? C'mon man, atleast fucking inform yourself with what you're arguing about! Listen to Take The Time, then listen to The Mirror and then come and tell me he has the same vibe throughout all his writing.

Edit: Also, about saying you always know where a Dream Theater song is going is pretty dumb, listen to Take The Time. It ends completely abrubtly similar to how Serenity Painted Death does, very predictable indeed.

 

[NFU]

Well Dobbit, i see what youre saying, and surely not EVERY song petrucci writes is the same...but Dream Theater truly hasnt progressed that much with how many albums they have under their belt for being considered a "progressive" band.

I would also like to point out that Petrucci had the luxury of going to a very fine music school in his younger years and was able to practice and play with some of the best in his field....Mikael on the other hand is self taught (that i know of), and has found a fairly unique aproach all his own.

 

[the_drip]

Petrucci is one of the best. Mikael is not on par wtih the likes of Satriani, Vai, or Petrucci.


Ask him...he'll probably admit to this fact. JP is better at the craft of guitar playing.


however...Mikael is a better lyracist, and song writer than anybody will ever be in Dream Theater.

 

[NFU]

yep

 

[Dobbit]

I agree that Dream Theater hasn't progressed much. Thats why the most recent DT cd I own is Scenes From A Memory. It depends on my mood on who's style I like more though, sometimes I prefer DT, sometimes I prefer Opeth.

I respect DT for what they put in their music and the technical abilities of the band. I just get annoyed when people say that they don't have any "feeling". Someone is going to feel something from the music, regardless of what you say, since feeling and emotion is subjective in music. I happen to think that since they spent so many years studying music, they sure as hell have a lot of feelings towards making music. You don't study for years and years only to write stuff you don't connect with.

That last paragraph was a rant towards most of the people who blast 'technical' bands because the music is complex. It wasn't meant to only apply to DT. I'm in random rant mode. Some technical bands I don't feel anything towards; I just don't connect with them. But, other people may, so I don't label them emotionless musicians making techinical creations.

 

[Nuk3m]

Petrucci used to have long hair.. i assume you know that, but sounds like you dont.

i am well aware of that.

 

[nicemarmot]

Dream Theater is more technical shredding wise, maybe they play some odd times or whatever but its not very deep, you just have to get fast enough really. Many people forget about how technical Opeth's riffs can be, especially the classical styled acoustic ones. Face of Melinda has some pretty technical acoustic pieces, in the moor too, I've never heard Dream Theater go near any classical styled playing, pretty much just shredding.

 

[OpethNZ]

good to see an intelligent thread on here, thanks for a good read people

 

[Dobbit]

Dream Theater is more technical shredding wise, maybe they play some odd times or whatever but its not very deep, you just have to get fast enough really. Many people forget about how technical Opeth's riffs can be, especially the classical styled acoustic ones. Face of Melinda has some pretty technical acoustic pieces, in the moor too, I've never heard Dream Theater go near any classical styled playing, pretty much just shredding.

Again, you obviously haven't listened to much Dream Theater. they use just as many odd chords as Opeth does, even more maybe. YTSE Jam has some classically inspired stuff in it. And again, about the 'just shredding' stuff, listen to stuff like Take The Time, its goddamn funk music! Don't start to argue about music being deep, it seems to suggest that you are talking about the music in a theoretical sense, in which Dream Theater is most certainly more complex than Opeth. Opeth has some strange key changes and such, but they don't go over the top as much as DT does.

Edit: I'm not saying that DT is better, its all subjective, I just don't like hearing people arguing about things they are uninformed about. Especially when they try to sound like an authoritative figure.

2nd Edit: Theres also plenty of technical and complex music theoretical wise that isn't classical. Jazz for one good example.

 

[coolsnow7]

I bought a Dream Theater album a couple of months ago...bored me to hell. I could not connect with the music. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that nobody can, like Dobbit said. Petrucci's better though. I don't care whether Mikael can write a fucking symphony, Petrucci's just plain better. Songwriting and guitar playing are 2 different things. Of course Mikael's a better songwriter, we all know that, and although I wonder at times how much exactly Mikael's holding back, I don't think it's that much.

Another interesting argument (well at least I think so) Chuck Schuldiner vs. Mikael, or John Petrucci. Some of his solos really were very very technical (and his songs were too) and he was also a very good songwriter.

 

[dorian gray]

it's nice to read some thoughtful posts. im glad to hear some folks realize that JP is a better guitar player than MA. it's also interesting to hear some peoples thoughts that MA is a better songwriter. probably true in some ways but i wonder how in the world anyone can explain that. songwriting is 100% subjective. you either like them or you don't. whereas, technical ability is measureable and quantifiable. so, within the context of minion520's original argument, he's probably wrong - JP is better than MA. and he's only wrong because his bases for the converse are non-measureable items like "feel" and "emotion" and "originality". these can mean anything to anyone and are thus useless in such an argument.
but of course, this is all in good fun and theres no real reason to compare guitarists. just as theres no reason to waste time in chat rooms and forums when we should all be practicing guitar instead.....so we can be better than MA and JP, heh heh.