Who downloads/who does'nt

[Satanstoenail]

I remember when downloading wasn't yet so big and easy and I know the ways people have been obtaining music. They were just copying it from each other. That's how I got into metal in the first place, I borrowed some cdrs from my friend's brother, wondering what the heck is blackmetal and being all curious to hear it. Now it's just easier to get it by just clicking the mouse twice on the internet. People say that it got too far but it's the same really, it just allows you to explore more. It wasn't good/legal back then and it's not now, but it allowed so many people to listen to it that it made those artists a true "hit".

When I got into metal it was all copied cassettes between friends. The thing was though, once I got into the music more, I had to have the originals, and that had nothing to do with giving back to the artist, I just wanted to have the proper product in full quality with the artwork. And I had FUCK ALL money. There was nothing like the feeling of finally having enough cash to go buy a few albums from the local metal store. I think the issue now is that people don't care whether they own an original copy anymore. Music and art is so readily available that it's become more disposable, and I don't really see that as a good thing.

Also colours aren't as colourful and food don't taste good no more etc.

Okay, let's imagine that the music industry blob thing actually manages to destroy downloading of music from internet and also erases the copying and all the other options to get music for free. You just wouldn't be able to hear anything you didn't pay for. The so-called music industry would suffer because that would almost entirely eliminate the option to share art, which is so important for musicians to gain listeners. It would put you back to the times when only vinyls were available and let's face it, you could only buy Beatles and some other three bands in your store (along w/ classical music that is irrelevant to my point). Would you like it better?

That's just an extreme hypothetical. There will/should always be means of sampling music before purchasing.

Well there are studies on that. The people who don't buy it after they download wouldn't buy it anyway and those who do - they have better view on what to buy. Album sales are not affected by it in negative way. What more, they even appear to be slightly better because of it.

I'd like to see a link to this/these studies. I have friends in the industry cool who work for labels that do metal primarily and they've told me that album sales are way down because of downloading and they're having to re-think their whole approach to being financially viable.

I also disagree re. the people who "wouldn't buy it anyway". What would they do, not listen to music?

 

[challenge_everything]

Given that there are no decent stores for buying metal albums in Perth, I like to make sure I'm buying something worth listening to and keeping before buying it from the northern hemisphere and paying a premium to have it shipped to the most isolated city in the world.

 

[Onder]

@Stn: I do care whether I have the original copy or not and I always try to get it when I like the album.

@J.: I know online distros and I use them to buy cds.

EDIT: BTW, listening to a song you youtube is a same kind of "stealing" as downloading it (unless it's an official channel) so that whole "Rate what the person above is listening to" thread should be named "Rate what the person above stole on the internet".

 

[PhlegethonVeins]

EDIT: BTW, listening to a song you youtube is a same kind of "stealing" as downloading it (unless it's an official channel) so that whole "Rate what the person above is listening to" thread should be named "Rate what the person above stole on the internet".

Last.fm, Pandora, MySpace, skullsnbones, etc etc etc...there are more than plenty legal ways. The artists and labels have offered up more than enough in their attempts to negotiate with thieves.

 

[fps]

My local HMV is shutting down in a month. They have terrible customer service, they have diversified poorly, their metal section is awful, still I'll miss it a little. Got a coupla kickass independents still around though.

 

[Tonka Time]

EDIT: BTW, listening to a song you youtube is a same kind of "stealing" as downloading it (unless it's an official channel) so that whole "Rate what the person above is listening to" thread should be named "Rate what the person above stole on the internet".

Then listening to the radio = piracy???
Posting youtube videos of songs is sharing and nothing more.
I'm not talking about uploading songs or downloading them on youtube.

 

[PhlegethonVeins]

I'd like to see a link to this/these studies. I have friends in the industry cool who work for labels that do metal primarily and they've told me that album sales are way down because of downloading and they're having to re-think their whole approach to being financially viable.

I also disagree re. the people who "wouldn't buy it anyway". What would they do, not listen to music?

The study everyone loves to cite was based off of the oh so flawless surveys with a oh so flawless small sample group by simply asking them for their answers on what they do. I don't know about you, but 99% of everyone I know personally that downloads and says they will purchase the album purchase it less than 50% of the time. Sooooo....its worth as much as most studies conducted by people trying to prove their point. Nothing.

 

[Onder]

Then listening to the radio = piracy???

No.

Posting youtube videos of songs is sharing and nothing more.
I'm not talking about uploading songs or downloading them on youtube.

So when you listen to an entire album on youtube it's okay and when you download it it's piracy?

 

[PhlegethonVeins]

No.



So when you listen to an entire album on youtub it's okay and when you donwload it it's piracy?

Do you acquire the music files upon listening to the song?

 

[Onder]

Do you acquire the music files upon listening to the song?

For a while, yeah, then your computer automatically deletes them. Repeating this process is very similar to keeping those files all along tbh.

 

[fps]

Album sales are not affected by it in negative way. What more, they even appear to be slightly better because of it.

Self-serving rubbish, incorrect in every single instance except those of bands so underground that they could never make any adequate amount of money from their music anyway.

 

[Tonka Time]

No.



So when you listen to an entire album on youtube it's okay and when you download it it's piracy?

When you listen to an an entire album on youtube you listen to an album on youtube. When you download you download.
It's as simple as that.

 

[Onder]

When you listen to an an entire album on youtube you listen to an album on youtube. When you download you download.
It's as simple as that.

Actually, listening to a song on youtube is just downloading it for a limited amount of time. You can repeat it how many times you like to but isn't it the same as if you kept it then?

 

[PhlegethonVeins]

You're reallyyyyy stretching there.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Do you acquire the music files upon listening to the song?

This is irrelevant. If I log on to Youtube everyday and listen to the same song, then it is no different than downloading the song. If you're opposed to downloading, it logically follows you should be opposed to listening to unoffical uploads on youtube.

 

[Carcassian]

It's kind of hard to get youtube to play on an mp3 player, or to burn a CD from youtube footage. I'm being fascetious, of course, and it is an interesting point you make. I don't download, but I do listen to youtube songs. Many YT songs are legally available, of course, though I accept that the majority probably aren't. That being said, I don't seem to find many videos taken down from YT ? Their seems to be a difference in YT and downloading, though I can't seem to rationally discern what it is. It just feels different.

 

[skeptik]

The difference is, of course, that one is streaming and there is no "possession" involved, whereas the other is permanent and transferable. In this sense youtube may "feel" more acceptable because, well, "it's on YouTube!", but in reality, a good majority of the songs we listen to on there are there unofficially and unauthorized by the artist or label and, as crimsonfloyd said, it would logically follow that one who objects to illegal downloading should also object to illegal streaming.

 

[Carcassian]

I guess so. I occasionally listen to some internet based metal radio shows. I happen to know that a couple of the DJ's on some of them "own" MP3's of albums they have acquired illegally.

I guess listening to those shows is probably the same, though of course I don't have the choice of what songs to listen to.

The YT example has really set me to thinking. Given the freely available nature of the internet these days on everyday devices (I'm thinking here of mobile / cell phones), if music on YT is instantly accessible from anywhere, what's to distinguish it from "owning" a legitimate download ? Streaming from anywhere without inconvenience probably makes "owning" an MP3 on a hard drive redundant.

I'm interested in how services like Spotify work out for small bands. Technically, I can legally access some underground metal bands via spotify (a "cloud" based music streaming service; available for low monthly subscription or free with advertising every five songs or so), but I wonder what proportion of the royalty money goes to the bands ?

 

[PhlegethonVeins]

The difference is, of course, that one is streaming and there is no "possession" involved, whereas the other is permanent and transferable. In this sense youtube may "feel" more acceptable because, well, "it's on YouTube!", but in reality, a good majority of the songs we listen to on there are there unofficially and unauthorized by the artist or label and, as crimsonfloyd said, it would logically follow that one who objects to illegal downloading should also object to illegal streaming.

I agree with you points, and personally am not a supporter of putting albums on YouTube (hence why I was listing other sources of sampling music before purchasing) however I will gladly argue it not being a direct parallel to downloading.

 

[THEMICRULAH]

I download everything and buy what I really enjoy. Simple as that.