Who seriously can believe in bible?

[infoterror]

I personally don't believe in god, or in satan. At this time when science has proven at least half of the bible wrong, I still keep wondering how someone could pray some fucking "god".. Well I don't judge anyone by their religion, they can believe what they want but I think it's total bullshit.

Religions are all metaphorical. Therefore, you assess them for psychological truth and not literal truth.

They also all categories as types of philosophical systems, and only on that basis does it make sense to argue over them... for example, Judaism is materialistic individualism, Hinduism is cosmic idealism, Buddhism is absolute idealism, Christianity is absolute idealism, Scientology is autocorroborative solipsism...

 

[Norsemaiden]

Theoretically someone could invent a new religion that is based on the laws of nature and does not involve superstition. Infact there is just such a religion but I don't know the full details of it as I have read this book a long time ago. It is called "Nature's Eternal Religion" and it is by Ben Klassen. I'll have to check if it's on the web.

 

[IOfTheStorm]

When it comes to everything theological, proof is overrated. People died asking for proofs, and never saw any, others find them in their everyday lives. Btw i don't recall when "science has proven half of the Bible wrong".
There is a thing going on here for quite a few days, they have discovered that the body of a priest who died many years ago, has remained almost unchanged, it doesn't stink (on the contrary it smells of flowers) and basically there is no sign of any decay on it. Many coroner's tested the situation, noone found an explanation. Of course there are equally "miraculus" incidents all over the world, i'm just pointing out another one that impressed me and it is recent.

 

[proglodite]

FFS... Who would seriously WANT to believe in the bible? You either:
a) Are living with/for God and thus already know what the bible speaks of to be true, and any irregularities are irrelevant
b) Have no desire to have such a relationship with God and so don't want to believe the bible, like most people on here; or
c) Are trying to follow the bible's teachings in order to get closer to God, and in doing so are completely missing the point of the bible.

What of the credibility of the doctrines of other religions, whose aim it is to bring oneself in line with the teachings? Surely that's a more relevant discussion?

 

[Dushan S]

When it comes to everything theological, proof is overrated. People died asking for proofs, and never saw any, others find them in their everyday lives. Btw i don't recall when "science has proven half of the Bible wrong".
There is a thing going on here for quite a few days, they have discovered that the body of a priest who died many years ago, has remained almost unchanged, it doesn't stink (on the contrary it smells of flowers) and basically there is no sign of any decay on it. Many coroner's tested the situation, noone found an explanation. Of course there are equally "miraculus" incidents all over the world, i'm just pointing out another one that impressed me and it is recent.

It is not that unusual neither in christian or in the east. (although on the east they do not have death fetish as christians do so bodies are burned) Technically, what probably hapens is that (have in mind this is not "official" scientific explanation,science does not acknowledges existence of prana as energy) as a result of practicing certain way of life and techniques, there is not only psychological change going on inside a person, but there is change in biologic functions and energy in body flows in different way. That means in practice that instead of usual process when body is dissolved because energy leaves it after death, life force stays in body for a number of years, even centuries.
Our concept of life is that it depends solely on functions of organs in body. In the east, idea is that functioning of the body depends only on energy and consioussnes inside the body. In practice this concept is proven by some Yogi's that are able to survive being underground (or in water) for hours, even days without air, by slowing their body functions almost to nothing, and then when dugged out, to start them again.

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LORD_RED_DRAGON
here's a web article that proves your point go to www.normalbobsmith.com/hatemail251.html scroll down to about 2/3rds of the way to the bottom of the page and read the text on the left that's written in the blood red letters

i still stand by this^^^ because i still believe that Judeo-Christianity is in reality nothing more than a crutch that is neccassary for those idiots that are to feeble-minded to deal with the reality of the crappiness of the way real world actually is...
...the real world sucks, get over it

Originally Posted by Vital Remains

this is the most hillarious thing i've ever seen and what makes it so fucking great is that it's, well, a totallyacurate warning label. the people that don't realize that it's fiction really can become dangerously psychotic which can be seen when you look at the Crusades, the inquisition, Hitler, Christian "ethics" severely slowing down stem-cell research (and to a lesser extent all other medical reasearch) which was parodied by a psychotically Christian female cartoon chacter saying "Don't worry Jesus, I'll put a stop to this blasphemy before it saves the lives of countless millions" which was so hilariously contradictory to what i believe that i put it in my sig

btw
sorry about the gramatically incorrect paragraphical structure

here's my take on this

if you said that you could prove "inteligent design", i'd be willing to listen to you

but

if you said you could prove that the "design-er" was the Christian's "God" then i'd have to say "bullshit"

 

[Cythraul]

i still believe that Judeo-Christianity is in reality nothing more than a crutch that is neccassary for those idiots that are to feeble-minded to deal with the reality of the crappiness of the way real world actually is...
...the real world sucks, get over it

How is Christianity any more of a crutch than any other belief system which provides moral codes or guidance in dealing with the realities of everyday life? Also, what gives you the idea that you can justifiably lump every Christian in with the zealots that you apparently despise? What makes you think that the fanatical interpretation of Christianity and the bible are really representative of Christianity? And how are statements like "...the real world sucks, get over it" supposed to be helpful or enlightening?

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

How is Christianity any more of a crutch than any other belief system which provides moral codes or guidance in dealing with the realities of everyday life? Also, what gives you the idea that you can justifiably lump every Christian in with the zealots that you apparently despise? What makes you think that the fanatical interpretation of Christianity and the bible are really representative of Christianity? And how are statements like "...the real world sucks, get over it" supposed to be helpful or enlightening?

Christianity is a crutch in the exact same way as the other diety-worshiping religions
i can't lump all Christians in the same group as the fanatics because this would be the same idiocy as when Christians lump all Muslims in with the ones that are blowing up buildings over those fucking cartoons
the words "the real world sucks get over it" is written from a chaos theory/nihilistic POV where either "God" doesn't exist or he just doesn't give a rat's ass about humanity any more

 

[Norsemaiden]

It makes more sense of the Bible that God is a sadistic killer rather than something worthy of worshiping. It makes sense that the devil is God and God is the devil. Satan was an angel who was cast out of Heaven for saying "Oh yeah, is that what God says?", challenging God. This indicates that having an inquiring mind is a sin in Heaven.

Not much of a crime compared with God's crimes: booby trapping the garden of Eden, drowning everyone in a flood, burning to death all the people from Sodom and Gemorrah. And choosing out the Jews as his people regardless of what wickedness or bad behaviour they do like castrating their enemies, prostitution/pimping; murder; extermination; genocide (they can do no wrong by God). God orders Abraham to kill his own son (to test his faith). Yet throughout history God has betrayed his chosen people, allowing them to suffer persecution and death repeatedly. God never intervenes in any atrocity or slaughter no matter how bad, in human history. He promises ultimately to destroy the world, apart from 144 thousand from all the tribes of Israel (Revelation 7:1) . (The Christians will say this is not meant to be taken literally, but then who is a man to decide what in the Bible is to be taken literally or not? If it is so cryptical and doesn't mean what it says and is open to many different interpretations then it seems rather pointless as any kind of instruction).

The people who just ask for evidence or aren't cowed into submission are put into a lake of fire for infinitity. Put into a superheated gas chamber for infinity! How good a God is that?

I used to be a Christian myself, but had to deprogramme myself. It is like a computer virus, initiated by the Jews in a cunning plan to destroy the Roman Empire. A great success. They took the Essene creed, repackaged it, and sold it to the Romans as a brain bomb. It was an act of desperation after the temple of Judea had been destroyed in 70AD. Same tactic applies to the formulation of: Communism, Protestantism, liberalism, feminism, fashion in clothes, music and art. Experts at mind manipulation.

There's very little hope of a Christian being deprogrammed, because it is like putting a hot knife through a brain. Key thing is to try taking a more moralistic tone than God. For example ,if God would tell you to kill your own son you would refuse. This makes you more noble than God.

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

Norsemaiden vbmenu_register("postmenu_4663967", true);
It makes more sense of the Bible that God is a sadistic killer rather than something worthy of worshiping. It makes sense that the devil is God and God is the devil. Satan was an angel who was cast out of Heaven for saying "Oh yeah, is that what God says?", challenging God. This indicates that having an inquiring mind is a sin in Heaven.

LORD_RED_DRAGON
people would crucify you for saying this, even some of the people that post here, but i agree with you
i saw an episode of a TV show that dealt with this when the superhero character dies "before he's supposed to"

Norsemaiden vbmenu_register("postmenu_4663967", true);
Not much of a crime compared with God's crimes: booby trapping the garden of Eden, drowning everyone in a flood, burning to death all the people from Sodom and Gemorrah. And choosing out the Jews as his people regardless of what wickedness or bad behaviour they do like castrating their enemies, prostitution/pimping; murder; extermination; genocide (they can do no wrong by God). God orders Abraham to kill his own son (to test his faith). Yet throughout history God has betrayed his chosen people, allowing them to suffer persecution and death repeatedly. God never intervenes in any atrocity or slaughter no matter how bad, in human history. He promises ultimately to destroy the world, apart from 144 thousand from all the tribes of Israel (Revelation 7:1) . (The Christians will say this is not meant to be taken literally, but then who is a man to decide what in the Bible is to be taken literally or not? If it is so cryptical and doesn't mean what it says and is open to many different interpretations then it seems rather pointless as any kind of instruction).

LORD_RED_DRAGON
i've actually read the bible (as reasearch)
and i can actually find all the things you're describing here even though most Christians wouldn't be able to

Norsemaiden
The people who just ask for evidence or aren't cowed into submission are put into a lake of fire for infinitity. Put into a superheated gas chamber for infinity! How good a God is that?

LORD_RED_DRAGON
this really does make "God" look evil and petty and unneccassarily/excessively malicious

Norsemaiden
I used to be a Christian myself, but had to deprogramme myself. It is like a computer virus, initiated by the Jews in a cunning plan to destroy the Roman Empire. A great success. They took the Essene creed, repackaged it, and sold it to the Romans as a brain bomb. It was an act of desperation after the temple of Judea had been destroyed in 70AD. Same tactic applies to the formulation of: Communism, Protestantism, liberalism, feminism, fashion in clothes, music and art. Experts at mind manipulation.

LORD_RED_DRAGON
my mom took me to church when i was little but i knew it was a cult as far back as i can remember (my immunity to the brainwashing effect on most pre-kindergarden kids was prolly connected to me learning how to read way younger than normal)

Norsemaiden
There's very little hope of a Christian being deprogrammed, because it is like putting a hot knife through a brain.

LORD_RED_DRAGON
my mom perfect example
she knows about all the anti-Christian things i wrote and distributed in high school but she still tries to convert me

Norsemaiden
Key thing is to try taking a more moralistic tone than God. For example ,if God would tell you to kill your own son you would refuse. This makes you more noble than God.

LORD_RED_DRAGON
if Jews were really "God's" "chosen" people, then how the fucking hell did "God" let the Holocaust happen???

 

[Neith]

Again, all of what you have said is only relevent to certain branches of Christianity.

 

[_Wes]

Most folks biggest problem with *any* religion - is the followers of said religion. For the most part - but really, anytime we try to boil any life philosphy down into a bite-sized morsel for the web - we really leave out most of what makes it important.

And honestly, people have a tendency to change things, and make them wholly different that what they *should* be - the crusades? Totally WRONG. Completely changed what the meaning behing Christianity (following Christ). He came to earth to spread a message of love - whatever reason they had for killing others was certainly not for Christ.

I believe in the Bible, I believe in God, and I believe in Jesus Christ.

If you don't, that's for you to decide - not for me to shove it down your throat. But I believe.

In the end - we'll all know "The Answer" - only it'll be too late to do anything about it.

 

[derek]

Christianity at its base, I greatly admire. The nonsense that 2000yrs has thrust upon it, I do not.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Again, all of what you have said is only relevent to certain branches of Christianity.

To be precise, it applies to the Bible - not branches of Christianity. Why does God supposedly make the Bible such a riddle, where there can be so many interpretations? How cruel is that, to fry you for all eternity if you don't solve the riddle correctly? Some loving God that is!

 

[_Wes]

Christianity at its base, I greatly admire. The nonsense that 2000yrs has thrust upon it, I do not.

Agreed - completely. The biggest problem with Christianity is what Man has done to it.

but given that - I'm not about to throw out the proverbial baby with the bath water.

 

[IOfTheStorm]

It makes more sense of the Bible that God is a sadistic killer rather than something worthy of worshiping. It makes sense that the devil is God and God is the devil. Satan was an angel who was cast out of Heaven for saying "Oh yeah, is that what God says?", challenging God. This indicates that having an inquiring mind is a sin in Heaven.

Actually Lucifer wants to be God in the place of God so he tries to destroy him with a rebel party. It's different from what you are saying and translate it into "having an inquiring mind".

Not much of a crime compared with God's crimes: booby trapping the garden of Eden, drowning everyone in a flood, burning to death all the people from Sodom and Gemorrah.

There is a reason behind all of these, incredibly simple reasons actually: The flood was done because everyone was evil and amoral except Noe and family, and so were the people in Sodoma and Gomorah. Of course you can question why God did chose these punishments, but you can't name them "crimes", since these people's crimes were supposed to be huge in the face of God.

And choosing out the Jews as his people regardless of what wickedness or bad behaviour they do like castrating their enemies, prostitution/pimping; murder; extermination; genocide (they can do no wrong by God). God orders Abraham to kill his own son (to test his faith). Yet throughout history God has betrayed his chosen people, allowing them to suffer persecution and death repeatedly.

I don't recall where the Jews castrated their enemies, you mean circumcized? And if yes, these were not their enemies. I also don't recall any prostitution/pimping, neither murder, extermination, genocide without any punishment, or without a reason given.

God never intervenes in any atrocity or slaughter no matter how bad, in human history. He promises ultimately to destroy the world, apart from 144 thousand from all the tribes of Israel (Revelation 7:1) . (The Christians will say this is not meant to be taken literally, but then who is a man to decide what in the Bible is to be taken literally or not? If it is so cryptical and doesn't mean what it says and is open to many different interpretations then it seems rather pointless as any kind of instruction).

Well in the Bible that you studied so hard, Jesus says that he will come back again in the Second Coming, and that means that God will not openly interfare with the world ever again, until then. As for the "what to take literally or not" part, the whole book of Revelation is full of symbolisms, as opposed to many other books of the New Testament..so i guess it's pretty easy to guess what to take literally or not.

The people who just ask for evidence or aren't cowed into submission are put into a lake of fire for infinitity. Put into a superheated gas chamber for infinity! How good a God is that?

And where did you read that if you ask for evidence you are going to hell? Also the "cowed into submission" is just your own way to see things, that doesn't mean that this is the case when you are a christian.

I used to be a Christian myself, but had to deprogramme myself. It is like a computer virus, initiated by the Jews in a cunning plan to destroy the Roman Empire. A great success. They took the Essene creed, repackaged it, and sold it to the Romans as a brain bomb. It was an act of desperation after the temple of Judea had been destroyed in 70AD. Same tactic applies to the formulation of: Communism, Protestantism, liberalism, feminism, fashion in clothes, music and art. Experts at mind manipulation.

I suppose your favourite book is "The Davinci Code" and that you actually believe every word of it. You imply that the Bible is full of wrong and senseless material, yet your way of thinking is built on a conspiracy theory, well done.

There's very little hope of a Christian being deprogrammed, because it is like putting a hot knife through a brain. Key thing is to try taking a more moralistic tone than God. For example ,if God would tell you to kill your own son you would refuse. This makes you more noble than God.

You do realize that the absolute "moralistic tone" ever known to man is what J.C. said (aka God's words)

 

[Neith]

To be precise, it applies to the Bible - not branches of Christianity. Why does God supposedly make the Bible such a riddle, where there can be so many interpretations? How cruel is that, to fry you for all eternity if you don't solve the riddle correctly? Some loving God that is!

But that is my point, the Bible is interpreted differently by different branches of Christianity. It's the same as with a poem; each person takes from it what they will, and they can argue about it for years, yet at the end of the day everybody can be wrong.

Not all Christians believe that we will be sentenced to Hell for ever after. I see your point, I've thought about it myself for quite a long time, but I do not think it is fair to bunch all forms of Christianity together and accuse them all of the same thing when in fact it does not apply to all of them.

 

[derek]

But that is my point, the Bible is interpreted differently by different branches of Christianity. It's the same as with a poem; each person takes from it what they will, and they can argue about it for years, yet at the end of the day everybody can be wrong.

Not all Christians believe that we will be sentenced to Hell for ever after. I see your point, I've thought about it myself for quite a long time, but I do not think it is fair to bunch all forms of Christianity together and accuse them all of the same thing when in fact it does not apply to all of them.

Yeah, BUT the poem does have a point, and the varying denomenatons all believe they have the correct answer.

 

[Norsemaiden]

lol this is awesome

i don't know about you but if i were a christian and believed in god but tried to "deprogram" myself

and then god told me to kill my own son

i'd say that would be pretty conclusive proof that god actually existed and thusly i would give up my "deprogramming" plans rather swiftly like

I was meaning this hypothetically, that if a God ordered me to kill my own son I would refuse! Is that such an unthinkable response?

When God designed humans he supposedly gave us free will. Why did he give us a predisposition towards sinning when he could have made us inclined to behave better? So then he drowned everyone except Noah's family in a flood. God doesn't blame himself for how mankind turned out even though he is supposed to be the creator. If we have such free will anyway, it contradicts the idea of an all powerful all controlling God somewhat. Either he is in control or we are to a huge extent, because of our free will.

Noah was supposed to have an exemplary family. So what's all this about Noah being a drunk and about his son Ham doing something unspeakable to Noah while he was drunk and naked? Something that made Noah curse Ham and all his decendants. This then was the family chosen to be the progenators of the next batch of humans. Not very sensible choice surely?
http://www.gotquestions.org/curse-Ham-Canaan.html

 

[IOfTheStorm]

When God designed humans he supposedly gave us free will. Why did he give us a predisposition towards sinning when he could have made us inclined to behave better? So then he drowned everyone except Noah's family in a flood. God doesn't blame himself for how mankind turned out even though he is supposed to be the creator. If we have such free will anyway, it contradicts the idea of an all powerful all controlling God somewhat. Either he is in control or we are to a huge extent, because of our free will.
l

Have you actually read the Bible or you are just pissed of because some priest tried to grab your ass?