Who seriously can believe in bible?
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IOfTheStorm
Gogol Bordello
Norsemaiden
barbarian
IOfTheStorm said:
Yes I have read the bible. I was asked earlier about the castration of enemies. Foreskins were collected, but this does not mean as a result of circumcision. There would be no circumcising of dead people. Castration of enemies was common in the middle east at the time, and there is a large rock carving by ancient Egyptians depicting this.
I Samuel 18: 23 to 27 "Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife".
Christians tend never to have read the Bible and are only familiar with parts of it, such as you would hear at Sunday school. It is not surprising that priests don't include the above in their sermons. I will tell about the pimping and prostitution a bit later.
What I object to is people worshiping a God who favours reprobates like Noah, David, and many others and imagining all sorts of nice things about God that have no basis in the Bible at all. This planet is in a mess because of people who won't face reality and this is one aspect of it.
IOfTheStorm
Gogol Bordello
You do realize that cutting their foreskins is entirely different from what you say eh?Norsemaiden said:
People don't need to hear war tales, they need to hear parts of the Bible that are helpful and meaningful. When someone reads the Bible there are lots of incredible and beautiful things that can shock him, of course you can stick to the cutting of the foreskins. By the way people are told about David's sins too.Norsemaiden said:
You obviously forget the part where Noah is the only man in the entire world that is not a reprobate. Also when David becomes one he gets a severe punishment. In the Bible God never favours a reprobate, but many people he did favour, are becoming reprobates (and they all get punished), also you completely ignore the element of honest repentance.Norsemaiden said:
And of course, The New Testament re-defines the Old Testament, and as a huge Bible scholar that i see you are, you should have known that. So you are saying that God in the Bible is not "nice" ? Ok "love your enemy".
Basically, apart from the planet, your study and level of understanding of the Bible is a mess. You purposely ignore everything, except the parts that you think they prove your point, misunderstand them, interpret them in any way it serves you better just to say that "people won't face reality". The Bible is not only the Old Testament you know, and what most Christians really put the base of their faith on, is The New Testament, so you are just bashing the Jewish faith, just to let you know. Now you can quote the passage of The New Testament were J.C. forgives Mary Magdalene, to show me that he favoured the sinners, thus something is wrong with him.
Norsemaiden
barbarian
IOfTheStorm said:
I know very well that the God of the Old Testament is one who advocates the killing of your enemies, but the message in the New Testament is to love your enemies. It is the Bible (or God) that is all mixed up, not me. It is not explained if God is supposed to have admitted he got things all wrong in the past and that is why he has changed his mind (in which case it is just another of his big mistakes) or would you prefer to argue that the old God is not the same God as in the New Test. and that you reject the Old Testament as being irrelevant to the Christian religion?
How literally do you take the Bible? Do you agree with any of the message of the Old Testament, do you admire the heroes of the Old Testament? Or do you only follow Christ's teaching, and if so, do you obey (or try to obey) everything, or do you pick and choose what fits in with your own idea of convenience? Do you agree that a rich Christian is a hypocrit? Do you agree that you should take out your eye if you lust after women? Do you believe in Heaven and Hell? Do you think anyone stands a chance of getting into Heaven if you have to have either never sinned, or else just managed to repent at the last second before death?
I made the point that Noah was not a good example of the best human. He was a drunkard and his son (who should have been made to drown) raped him. I am saying how the hell were they the best people on Earth.
God punished David by sending a plague on Israel that killed 70,000 people, but not David. 2 Samuel 24:4 vs15. Do you think God did well there?
Hosea 1: vs2 "And the Lord said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the Lord".
also Genesis 38 vs15.
IOfTheStorm
Gogol Bordello
Lolerz.. did you read what i said? The New Testament RE-DEFINES the Old Testament. Let's just say that God's laws are perfectly changed (not vastly) in order to be the ideal ones for every situation. If you actually READ the Bible you will realize that yourself. Btw the God in the Old Testament DOES NOT say "kill your enemies" just like that, when there is a war/killing, things are more complicated than "kill the ones that you hate". People in The Old Testament could not even comprehend the idea of "love your enemy" thing, societies were different, they did not have a specific law to respect, in order to develop it. Some thousands year later, yes they were ready to hear it (although not really ready to fully understand it, which happens until now). In every situation people hear from God what is ESSENTIAL for them to hear at that time, nothing more, nothing else. Also the common elements of the "two different Gods" are huge. In both Testaments God really appreciates repentance, if you truly repent you are clean, and the Ten Commandments still exist (although J.C. made some things clear aka - yes don't work on Saturday, but don't be a lazy ass if there is a problem). The Old Testament is not irrelevant to the Christian Religion, but it is far from the essence of it also.Norsemaiden said:
This conversation is not about what i do, however i suggest that you stop using some really wrong stereotypes and inventions of priests, not words of J.C.Norsemaiden said:
"He was a drunkard", and now God has a weird opinion on who is a good person or not? Also in that passage of the Bible it is said that he got drunk once and they found him naked, you IMAGINE (again) that his son raped him.Norsemaiden said:
Actually he punished him in a way that would actually HURT him a LOT (and affected his family a lot). I can't think if God did well or not there, i just think that there was a reason even for that.Norsemaiden said:
Norsemaiden
barbarian
God killed 70 thousand people who had not done wrong, to punish one man who had.
The reason I asked you about what you believe is because there are Christians out there who pick and choose what out of Jesus' teachings they wish to follow and dismiss all the others in some self-serving way. I wondered whether you fully obey or at least want to fully obey everything Jesus advocates. Also whether you think its all "just a nice idea, not to be taken too literally" or whether you truly believe that the penalty for failure is eternal damnation and the reward is Heaven. Can you honestly answer these questions or will you evade them? I enjoy trying to figure out what makes Christians tick, and have no intention to be rude, upsetting or unfriendly. It is just something many of us cannot understand, why people are Christians. The sort of explanation we have come up with here is that it is through a weakness such as a need to believe in an afterlife (because of fear of death or the thought of a loved one being dead) or to feel there is someone up there who is looking out for you, etc. You've got to admit that is why a lot of people are religious.(Choosing to be Christian rather than just following family tradition).
The reason I asked you about what you believe is because there are Christians out there who pick and choose what out of Jesus' teachings they wish to follow and dismiss all the others in some self-serving way. I wondered whether you fully obey or at least want to fully obey everything Jesus advocates. Also whether you think its all "just a nice idea, not to be taken too literally" or whether you truly believe that the penalty for failure is eternal damnation and the reward is Heaven. Can you honestly answer these questions or will you evade them? I enjoy trying to figure out what makes Christians tick, and have no intention to be rude, upsetting or unfriendly. It is just something many of us cannot understand, why people are Christians. The sort of explanation we have come up with here is that it is through a weakness such as a need to believe in an afterlife (because of fear of death or the thought of a loved one being dead) or to feel there is someone up there who is looking out for you, etc. You've got to admit that is why a lot of people are religious.(Choosing to be Christian rather than just following family tradition).
IOfTheStorm
Gogol Bordello
The point is not what I might believe or not, neither what you should believe or not. All i know is that i think that J.C. said the greatest things ever. That's it. If someone follows them (or at least really tries to do so) then for me he is a "christian" (and yes that means, that many many people that consider themselves "christians" are really not). The fact that no other human ever came near to what J.C. said makes me think that if there is a God (and after lots of thinking/seeing things i came to the conclusion that there is one) then J.C. was trully his son. The reason i'm not answering most of your answers, is that i don't have an exactly clear idea about many things yet, i'm still "studying" them. And the reason why most people are religious is simply because that's the way the feel, faith is about how you feel and usually there might not be any reason behind it (especially logical one).Norsemaiden said:
Basically i think you have a completely wrong idea about almost everything related to the christian religion/christians/concept of God, at least that's what i understand mainly from your questions, and not from your incorrect assumptions from the Bible. So instead of asking me about all these stuff, just see things in another way.
Dushan S
Member
Trying to find logic in schizophrenic nature of bible because of differences between god of Jesus Christ and god of old testament, is a waste of time.
There is no logic there.
There was this one, old religion. Enlightened guy comes and dies trying to change things for a better. New church is made out of old, mixed with inspirational teaching of late mr. Christ. It is a great mixture. If you want people to be inspired, to work themselves to death, there is god of love and reward, god of Christ. If you want people to be good slaves, to listen and obey you can always sexually supress them and scare them in zillion ways with manipulative, destructive good of old testament. In practice that was working great, as you can see. When you analyse Christianity as a cohesive religion, philosophy about universe, nothing makes a sense. When you look at it as an instrument of rulership, delicate way to mess minds of masses, than everything starts to look very logical and in place.
So when you say "god did this or that", do you keep in mind that this is a story that was part of the holy book on a purpose, because someone thought this could be very handy for keeping sheeps in order?
Not that there is no spirituality in Christianity. When they have misused Christs teachings, it was inavoidable to take all the good stuff also, but they knew it would be fully understandable for very small number of people that will be more concentrated on their personal developement than changing ways of the world anyway.
There is no logic there.
There was this one, old religion. Enlightened guy comes and dies trying to change things for a better. New church is made out of old, mixed with inspirational teaching of late mr. Christ. It is a great mixture. If you want people to be inspired, to work themselves to death, there is god of love and reward, god of Christ. If you want people to be good slaves, to listen and obey you can always sexually supress them and scare them in zillion ways with manipulative, destructive good of old testament. In practice that was working great, as you can see. When you analyse Christianity as a cohesive religion, philosophy about universe, nothing makes a sense. When you look at it as an instrument of rulership, delicate way to mess minds of masses, than everything starts to look very logical and in place.
So when you say "god did this or that", do you keep in mind that this is a story that was part of the holy book on a purpose, because someone thought this could be very handy for keeping sheeps in order?
Not that there is no spirituality in Christianity. When they have misused Christs teachings, it was inavoidable to take all the good stuff also, but they knew it would be fully understandable for very small number of people that will be more concentrated on their personal developement than changing ways of the world anyway.
derek
Grey Eminence
Larsson
He is risen
One fun thing that has supprised is that no christian has killed me yet. Since the bible says numerous times that you should kill non-christians:
''You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Any city that doesnt receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11
Jude reminds us that God destroys those who dont believe in him. Jude 5''
Christians should not either socilize with non christians(well, they should kill them)
:
''Dont associate with non-Christians. Dont receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10
Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17
Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8''
So why even bother christians? If you socialize with non christians and dont kill them at sight youre going to hell anyway.
Source: http://www.evilbible.com/BiblicalIntolerance.htm
''You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Any city that doesnt receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11
Jude reminds us that God destroys those who dont believe in him. Jude 5''
Christians should not either socilize with non christians(well, they should kill them)
:''Dont associate with non-Christians. Dont receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10
Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17
Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8''
So why even bother christians? If you socialize with non christians and dont kill them at sight youre going to hell anyway.
Source: http://www.evilbible.com/BiblicalIntolerance.htm
Øjeblikket
Member
Dushan S said:
Now, I think you're focused on a facet of a religion which consists of many members. Such attention would reveal neither an entire, mutifaceted devotion, nor its fundamental dogma. Interesting thing also, I heard recently that early Christianity was the devotion of the poor.
That sort of makes it your responsibility to find the sensical or whimsical, logical or spazztastic philosophy about universe particular to Christianity.
After all, who can oppose a religion of possession?
Øjeblikket
Member
IOfTheStorm said:
mind if I butt in?
it's about the subject, Narsemaiden; which, if it's just about you toying with alleged Christians, owning over them that which you misunderstand, becomes lame.
The problem I have with accepting J.C.'s words as comely, I of the Storm, is that my image of him, his words, his fish, is mostly americanized, which is to say unbelievable. I'd have to study longer.
IOfTheStorm
Gogol Bordello
Haha, this is one of the funniest pieces i have read for a long time.Øjeblikket said:
Anyway Atheists assume a lot more things than Christians. Conspiracy theories about a world wide manipulation organization that is called Christianity etc. I wonder in which logic (since they are so fond of LOGIC) they base their thoughts (and beliefs). The concept of God (whether he exists or not) is beyond any logic anyway.
derek
Grey Eminence
Øjeblikket
Member
IOfTheStorm said:
perhaps in the practicing of faith in what could be called the Absurd, but religious beliefs are logical.
crossyourheart
Balls in your moufff
- Mar 21, 2006
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religion is so fucking stupid. I hate it, its dumb. There is no god, the bible was made so people would stay under control and their would be no chaos. Fuck the bible, and god.
Øjeblikket
Member
crossyourheart
Balls in your moufff
- Mar 21, 2006
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