Tubbs
Bi-weekly top album:
It's a nice change. :Smokin:
Haha, oh yeah.progmetalpilgrim said:(Hey Tubbs, how funny is they debate going on at the Opeth forum...)
Who wants their voice on DT's new album?
- Thread starter Metalman7983
- Start date
How did I contradict myself? Yes, you are blasting Dream Theater for doing stuff that's not exactly original. If you mean my post in response to ProgMetalPilgrim about flaming DT fans, it was a joke. If you look into past DT threads on this board, you'll see taht there's a history here of unnecessary evangelical DT fanbois.
But I didn't contradict myself. I looked at my post, and in the last line about trying something new, I meant a new direction, not necessarily something that's never been done before. At this point in time, there isn't really much room for direction for anyone to go in and still sound good, so if you're expecting to hear something that nobody's done before, have fun waiting, 'cause everyone's done everything in every way. They're not gonna automatically say "We have to find a way to do something that's never been done before, even if it sounds like shit." That's pretty much how Spiral Architect sounds. They sacrifice all composition skills and tonality for the sake of being as overly technical as possible. They have their hearts in the right place, but they suck big fat donkey balls.
You stopped liking a band because of their fans? Sorry, I thought I was expecting a logical response here. Normal people would still appreciate a band, no matter whattheir fans are like. I post in the Bodom forum, and the people in that forum are, for the most part, impulsive, concience-less idiots. But does that mean that I'm gonna stop listening to Bodom? No. I still like the band, because they put out good music. The same goes for Dream Theater. Alot of their fans, myself included, as seen here, can in fact be narrow-minded and incredibly self-righteous, but does that really mean that the band is any less talented or respectable? No, it doesn't.
Noone's putting them on a pedestal for doing what's been done. I don't know about the other fanbois 'round the world, put I put them on a pedestal (yet again admitting to fanboiism) because they're great musicians, who've written great music in the past, including what's been done recently, whether it really be original or not. Octavarium is among my favorite songs ever written by any band, because its sound is something great, and brilliant. So what if they used real strings, just like Nightwish did? So what if it's not something that they thought of all on their own? It still sounds good. And that's why they did it. Because it sounds good. That's why bands do what they do. It's not only that I'm a Dream Theater fanboi. They write good music. And there's a good chance that they'll continue to do so, because I still have yet to be disappointed with the band. (Except Falling Into Infinity. That album just doesn't catch my interest.)
In the end, if you want to rant about Dream Theater, then go rant on the Mike Portnoy forum, 'cause you'll get more of the attention there which you seem to crave so much. I honestly don't even know why I spent so much time on this post. Maybe because my band is influenced by Dream Theater, and it insults me when you call one of my bigger influences "Unoriginal", because it calls my music unoriginal. Maybe I really am as impulsive anf narrow minded of a Dream Theater fanboi as I keep making fun of myself for being. Maybe just because of the fact that you remind me too much of someone who REALLY got me all up in arms. But if you don't like Dream Theater anymore, go not like them somewhere else.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
Rose Immortal
Spirit of Hope
- Jun 19, 2004
- 1,425
- 10
- 38
THANK YOU!
When you think about it, ALL art or music is based on one's influences. In fact, back before copyright law it was common practice to actually rip riffs from other artists in one's own era (quite different from SymX using public-domain classical works!). That's changed, but my point remains the same: people in the creative business always "stand on the shoulders of giants," as Newton said (although in his case, for science).
Do I think DT is perfect? No. Do I think everyone should have to like them? No. We can all have our tastes...mine may even be for the simple fact that my singing voice and LaBrie's get along better than the average metal singer I listen to (imagine me trying to sing Blind Guardian...YEESH!). But I don't think it's necessary to go around insulting the band and its fans.
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
I would just like to point out once again that Circus Maximus is a symphony x clone, and by saying they put out one of the best debut albums ever, you nullify your arguement of saying "a band should do their own thing". They may have put out one of the best damn Symphony X albums that MJR never wrote, but they're hardly original (so they're heavy metal, not progressive right? )
)
Kenneth R.
Cináed
i would caution anyone who has this viewpoint, if you're a short person, you are only as tall as the giant you're standing on. and if everyone in the biz "always" as the quote above states, practices this habit, then who are the giants to begin with?
there is much to be said for one's own creative power and/or innovation. standing on giant's shoulders is meaningless once everyone's doing it.
Statler Waldorf
Member
- Jul 30, 2005
- 176
- 0
- 16
You stopped liking a band because of their fans? Sorry, I thought I was expecting a logical response here. Normal people would still appreciate a band, no matter whattheir fans are like.
........But if you don't like Dream Theater anymore, go not like them somewhere else.[/QUOTE]
No, I stopped liking DT because I realized they were not all they are cracked up to be by their fans. I started feeling really stupid saying I liked a band that everyone else thinks is the greatest band to ever walk the planet when I myself just thought they were decent. So I guess it was just the fans' illogical behavior that just polarized me to dislike Dream Theater. I also was not too impressed after seeing interviews with the members and realizing how really arrogant they were for a bunch of music school geeks.
So you are saying I should leave the "Symphony X" discussion forum because I don't like Dream Theater? Well you just proved my point about how narrow-minded DT fans really are. "If you don't like DT, even if it's another band's forum, get out of here!" hehe. This is also funny because this is a 'Discussion' Forum, and you guys want to eliminate all discussion just because someone doesn't like your idols, sad :-(
I normally agree with Rose, but not this time. So by imitating U2, you are suggesting that Dream Theater was "Standing on the shoulders of giants?" I hardly consider Bono and his boys "Giants" in the world of musical theory and progression. Also, I didn't really start all of this flaming, I just made a simple comment about DT and how they are now followers instead of leaders, so if I am going to get blasted for saying something that simple, then I am not going to lay of off DT fans. Since they are the ones who blasted me first for daring to scoff at their beloved band.
........But if you don't like Dream Theater anymore, go not like them somewhere else.[/QUOTE]
No, I stopped liking DT because I realized they were not all they are cracked up to be by their fans. I started feeling really stupid saying I liked a band that everyone else thinks is the greatest band to ever walk the planet when I myself just thought they were decent. So I guess it was just the fans' illogical behavior that just polarized me to dislike Dream Theater. I also was not too impressed after seeing interviews with the members and realizing how really arrogant they were for a bunch of music school geeks.
So you are saying I should leave the "Symphony X" discussion forum because I don't like Dream Theater? Well you just proved my point about how narrow-minded DT fans really are. "If you don't like DT, even if it's another band's forum, get out of here!" hehe. This is also funny because this is a 'Discussion' Forum, and you guys want to eliminate all discussion just because someone doesn't like your idols, sad :-(
I normally agree with Rose, but not this time. So by imitating U2, you are suggesting that Dream Theater was "Standing on the shoulders of giants?" I hardly consider Bono and his boys "Giants" in the world of musical theory and progression. Also, I didn't really start all of this flaming, I just made a simple comment about DT and how they are now followers instead of leaders, so if I am going to get blasted for saying something that simple, then I am not going to lay of off DT fans. Since they are the ones who blasted me first for daring to scoff at their beloved band.
Rose Immortal
Spirit of Hope
- Jun 19, 2004
- 1,425
- 10
- 38
I think you're misunderstanding my comment. It doesn't mean doing a complete copy--but it does mean you have to acknowledge the great debt that you owe to all who came before, and considering the thousands of years worth of music, that's a LOT. It also means that by nature there are going to be a lot of similarities from band to band within a genre even without people meaning to. And that does include the greats.
As for Octavarium, I think I remember reading somewhere that they were intentionally wearing their influences on their sleeves for that album. Which makes sense considering what the title track was all about. Did it sound a lot like U2? Definitely. I think the thing that may have made Petrucci turn to them, though, more than anything was the lyrics. U2 probably attracts his ear not as much for the music but for the fact that they write openly about faith without being totally cheesy. I recall reading somewhere that Petrucci is a practicing Catholic. But I think it came off well as their own spin on it, and I enjoy listening--and that's all that counts in my book.
progmetaldan
Member
I think people should just enjoy Dream Theater for what they really are... Amazing musician, each in their own right, who happen to enjoy making music together. They're not responsible for their fans opinions, neither do they care. They just make music however they want, and the fact that lots of people love it or hate it is just a by product... I think everyone takes them for granted as a band, and just wants that band to meet their own particular needs...
It should go like this:
DT make a cd
You listen to the cd
You enjoy the cd
You keep listening to that cd as well as others
OR:
DT make a cd
You listen to the cd
You don't like the cd
You don't listen to them anymore
What anyone else thinks shouldn't be a factor in your descision as to your opinion of the band, but don't try to convince others that the band sucks, even if you think so...
It should go like this:
DT make a cd
You listen to the cd
You enjoy the cd
You keep listening to that cd as well as others
OR:
DT make a cd
You listen to the cd
You don't like the cd
You don't listen to them anymore
What anyone else thinks shouldn't be a factor in your descision as to your opinion of the band, but don't try to convince others that the band sucks, even if you think so...
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
Just FYI, i hate DT and am very vocal about it here, but i also have good reasons as to why i hate dt (songwriting that evokes no emotion in me thus rendering it completely useless for me to listen to their material) as opposed to "The fans make me hate them".
I will say i do understand what you're trying to get at. I'm somewhat the same way with opeth. The difference is that i realize what i liked about them to begin with and still enjoy the albums that i did like (morningrise through deliverance). yeah, their fans are mostly retarded and yes, i admit that turns me off, but if someone asks "hey do you like opeth?" I'll say "yes, but i like agalloch better" or something like that. In fact, i think it's pretty spineless to say you dislike a band because you don't want to be perceived in a certain way for saying you like them. Case and point: People ask me what kind of music i listen to and i say "Metal" and they say "oh like metallica and slipknot?" Maybe i should stop telling people i listen to metal because i don't want to be perceived as enjoying those bands.
or not.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
i'm not misunderstanding anything Rose, I'm just pointing out that it is dangerous to think along those lines.
RequiemX
King of Ithaca
I just don't get why people get so emotional about it. I mean, I see the kind of fierce and unbending arguments that are usually reserved for the abortion and gay rights debates.
It's a band.
Like them? Listen.
Don't? Don't.
I'm with progmetalpilgrim.
It's a band.
Like them? Listen.
Don't? Don't.
I'm with progmetalpilgrim.
noble savage
Member
Taliwakker
.....
I hate Dream Theater because i (speaking on behalf of our band) asked Portnoy to join our band in 1996 and he laughed....well fuck you Mike...who's laughing now?.....oh 
And Van Halen I is the greatest debut album of all time.
And Van Halen I is the greatest debut album of all time.
Phanto
Alalalalalalalala.
I hate Dream Theater because i (speaking on behalf of our band) asked Portnoy to join our band in 1996 and he laughed....well fuck you Mike...who's laughing now?.....oh
noble savage
Member
I hate Dream Theater because i (speaking on behalf of our band) asked Portnoy to join our band in 1996 and he laughed....well fuck you Mike...who's laughing now?.....oh
Portnoy almost quit after falling into infinity was released. If he would have, you may have had a new drummer.
Again, how does that change the way their music sounds?
No, I was telling you to gtfo, because the only posts you've made are just "BLAH BLAH BLAH DREAM THEATER SUCKS BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!" Most of the people who post here on UltimateMetal forum usually at least have the decency to try to engage in more discussions and offer more than just "You're wrong and I'm right."
What you've been saying is that you don't like Dream Theater, because your opinion seems to be different from other peoples' opinions. Does the fact thatother people feel differently really make you think that the music itself is of any worse quality. Does a person's opinion really change what you hear in the song? If everyone in the world said that, for example, Dragonforce is the best band of all time, I wouldn't care. I think they're alright, but I wouldn't instantly hate them and go insulting people and calling them narrow minded because they like the band more than I do.
And what I'm saying is that no matter what a band's fans act like, no matter how a band feels about themselves, that doesn't affect the music itself. It's the principle of the matter. You keep ranting about how Dream Theater is "unoriginal", but does the fact that I Walk Beside You sounds like U2 really affect the way the music actually goes through your head? Unless you have a strange psycho-sematic mental disorder, then the answer would most likely be a no.
First off, you're right, I did start it, but I didn't just go off saying "No n00b, you're wrong!!!111!1!!!" Instead, I just said that if Dream Theater wants to do something that's new to them, then that shouldn't effect the way their previous music sounds. Whether it's enjoyable or not, I'll still give it a try, and if I like it, I like it, if I don't, I don't. I don't necessarily like everything Dream Theater's done. I wasn't a big fan of the endless solos and stuff on all the albums past Scenes, and the entire album of Falling Into Infinity just bores me to death. But does that make Images And Words any less enjoyable? I'll let you answer that for me.
