Yes you do own the sandpit. Now run along to it and try not to get lost this time, junior. Let me spell out how your assertion that I committed a red herring is wrong or at least ironic either way. Firstly I never used the diversion as a means of distraction, only as a response to your arbitrary blithering about homoeroticism. The distraction was all yours. Secondly you are assuming that there was any intent to distract from a given topic of debate on my part at all. On the contrary the topic of debate in a larger sense included the kind of idiotic rant about homoeroticism you put forth in the first place. Furthermore you are wrong to assert that ignoratio elenchi is a device of the initiator of an argument only and given that your comment was arbitrary to the topic anyway you would therefore be the initiator. Finally, since I was obviously addressing you arbitrarily to the other topic of debate and had responded to the original debate completely there is no way you can claim I was committing a red herring either. Since the only debate between you and I had to do with your idiotic rants about homoeroticism there is no way I was committing a red herring. You did not address the topic I was debating at all and therefore by responding to you I was in no way committing a red herring. Therefore the only way anyone was committing a red herring was by you commenting in the first place about homoeroticism, and given that the only applicable use of the phrase is the dumbed down version, my assertion that it was ironic therefore stands. Now be a good boy and run along. I see your playmates are building a sandcastle already. I think I might go and buy some kippers though