your definition of a sellout

[Southy]

was just wondering how come some bands can experiment and not be sellouts and others do one song different on an album and they 'sell out'?...so tell me what does selling out mean to you and what are a coupla bands you have considered sellouts??

this comes buy the way after listening to all 4 MachineHead albums one after the other and wondering when the fuck they 'sell out' as i have heard people say since they released Burning Red it was a progression to me ahh well...proceed then will ya

 

[Mark]

I think it mostly comes down to whether their fans are narrow-minded fuckwads or not

As far as I'm concerned, a band can do whatever the hell it wants.
I don't think Metallica sold out, for example - they just changed their style (just as I've changed my outlook on music over the years).

All comes down to their fans

 

[Bucko]

Have to be careful here but I suspose Metallica after the "Black " Album would the best example that springs to mind, but as you said progression or exploration of musical boundries may be another way to bull shit around it.

 

[Southy]

But what about if its the critics crying sellout..is it upto the fans to decide because soo many of them even the older ones dont seem to give the band a chance these days

 

[Mark]

I just think fans who invest a lot of time into a band need to take a step back and realise they don't OWN the band, and therefore have no right to say a band's direction is the wrong one. If you don't like it, don't listen to it -- a cliched response, but it's something that people need to absorb.

I can't stand the black album - it's a pile of steaming shite in my opinion, but I think Load is a top rock album.

 

[Mark]

Originally posted by Southy
But what about if its the critics crying sellout..is it upto the fans to decide because soo many of them even the older ones dont seem to give the band a chance these days

Any critic who cries sellout should be shot. It's their job to critique music and its performance, not an artist's integrity.

All my opinion, of course

 

[TinMan666]

Offspring.

And anyone who lets someone do a rap version of one of their hits.

 

[Mark]

Offspring rock!

 

[Southy]

Yes offspring rock indeed while yes they have done a few questionable songs i dont think the music or integrity of the band have changed..and I thought they would be the first accussed of selling out

 

[Bucko]

Opinions are like Arseholes everyones got one.

 

[Lord Tim]

I think Metallica *did* sell out.

Now before I get bashed to a bloodied pulp by large men wielding iron bars, the reason I say this is they always had the attitude of "not making clips, always being metal, always being underground", etc. no matter what.

The next thing we know they have BULK merchandise everywhere, pissy little home videos of Lars taking a shit or something, and they're playing lame top-40 music...

I'm the first person to say that bands should experiment, provided they never made any big statements about what they were trying to achieve in the band that is absolutely 180 degrees from where they ended up, conveniently at the same time as they become rich an famous...

Sure, people's tastes change, the music develops, etc. and it's only natural for some fans to not like the new direction a band is going in (we're expecting some people to not like A Rise To Power even though they might like Resurrection - it happens!), but when it's so conveniently timed to coincide with a lot of money coming from a record label and the music is so different (and usually more commercial) than how they started - especially when they take such a hard line "we'll never do that!" approach, I dunno.... that just reeks of sell-out to me...

LT gets off his soapbox

 

[Goreripper]

I partly agree with you Tim. Metallica did sell out, but not necessarily in a musical fashion. They always had a small streak of commercialism inherent in their writing. When considering early tracks like "Escape" and "Harvester of Sorrow", the leap to the style on the 'Black' album isn't that hard to make. I think they would just sound extraordinarily try-hard if they tried to make a record like 'Ride the Lightning' these days. In 1984 they were lean and hungry with the whole world against them; ten years later they were fat and rich with the world at their feet, and I think that would have happened anyway, change of style or not. Their creative spark has certainly dwindled, that's for sure. Once a label gets its hooks in, there is a high degree of pressure to get sales ticking over of course. However, I think Metallica have 'sold out' on an ideological level more than a musical one.

Fear Factory! Now THAT's a band that's sold out.

 

[spawn]

But Digimortal is Fear Factorys BEST album by a MILE!

I think a band is a "sellout" when they deliberately change their music so they can sell more albums. If Iron Maiden detuned, started rapping, throwing harmonics in everywhere and didnt play ANY guitar solos, I think id have a right to say they sold out wouldnt I?

I think bands need to realise the people who put them where they are in the first place, its all well and good saying the band shouldnt pander to fans, which I partly agree with, but to totally ignore them is arrogance in the extreme IMHO

I dont think Metallica sold out either, they just lost their drive, thats all, I love the black album, but im not really crazy about anything after that.

 

[Wrathchild]

Me! Both for buying a suit *and* deciding to send a Valentine this year .

Gentlemen, your vitriol please...

W

 

[Morticia]

A suit? whats the occasion - not court I hope?

 

[Wrathchild]

Worse! A wedding of the snobbiest, most toffee-nosed kind.

Quite how I ended up on the guest list, I'll never know. I've a good mind to turn up unshaven and unwashed in one of my battered old metal shirts and show 'em what a repellent slob I really am. Court would be fun by comparison .

W

 

[Morticia]

I have having to go to functions like that where you have to pretend to be someone you're not. Look on the bright side though - free food and alcohol!!

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I agree with Goreripper. I don't believe Metallica sold out musically as such, but they did sellout on a different level, as Lord Tim said.

'Selling Out' means to change for the purpose of making money. Not to evolve, but to jump on the bandwagon. ect.

I think the perfect example of a band that changed musically as a result of 'evolving' as apose to 'selling out' is "Katatonia". Listen to their early stuff, then listen to their latest stuff. I doesn't even sound like the same band, but what they do now is alot more mature. They didn't change to make money, they just evolved.

I think Offspring have sold out. I really like their earlier stuff ('Smash' is a great album), but they had a sniff of success and then followed their nose.

I think Fear Factory have sold out to some extent also. Can you imagine having that rapper guy that appeared on Digimortal, doing a spot on the 'Soul Of A New Machine' album?...
Digimortal is their worst effort IMO, but I really like some of their other stuff.

 

[Goreripper]

Originally posted by spawn
But Digimortal is Fear Factorys BEST album by a MILE!

I think a band is a "sellout" when they deliberately change their music so they can sell more albums.

'Digimortal' is crud. They didn't change their style overall, just dumbed it down. Made the songs shorter so the kids with zero attention spans who caught the coat-tails of their 'Obsolete' phase and got into them when they heard other bands they liked quoting them as influences didn't get bored in the mosh pit while listening to a song that goes for more than three and a half minutes. They put that 'Back the Fuck Up' junk on it to please their record company. Originally it was just going to used as a B-side. It's not a bad album by any means, but it's like comparing "Reload" to "Master of Puppets" when put alongside their first two albums.

 

[Goreripper]

Originally posted by spawn
If Iron Maiden detuned, started rapping, throwing harmonics in everywhere and didnt play ANY guitar solos, I think id have a right to say they sold out wouldnt I?

If they started doing that, I'd think they'd LOST THE PLOT!

But you don't think Iron Maiden haven't sold out anyway, without changing their basic style? Constantly re-releasing their back catalogue every few years, commissioning a computer game that's virtually impossible to play, putting out Eddie collectables, etc. That's NOT selling out? I'll love Maiden till the day I die, but you can't tell me they're not one big money-making machine.

The whole sell-out argument always reminds me of TOOL's 'Hooker with a Penis', thus:

"I met a boy wearing Vans, 501s
And a dope Beastie tee, nipple rings
New tattoos
Who claimed that he was OGT
Back in 92, from the first EP

And in between sips of Coke
He told me that he thought we were selling out
Laying down, sucking up to the man

Well I've got some advice for you, little buddy
Before you point the finger you should know that I'm the man
And if I'm the man then you're the man and he's the man as well
So you can point that fucking finger up your ass

All the know about me is what I've sold you, dumbfuck
I sold out long before you ever even heard my name
I sold my soul to make a record, dipshit
And you bought one!

All you read, and hear and see on TV
Is nothing but a product waiting for youf fat-ass dirty dollar
So shut up and buy
Buy!
Buy my new record!

Fuck you, buddy!"